Cotic question

mog666

Hi all, i know this question has been raised lots before but i need some info on the cotic bikes. Im considering the soul or bfe and want to know which one would be better for skills such as manuals, wheelies, bunnyhops and general manouverability?. I know a lot of guys say the bfe is a better play bike and more chuckable , im confused because being as the bfe is heavier wouldnt this hinder getting the front end up and jumping more??. Ive havent had the luxury of test demoing either yet hence the post!,Baring in mind i wont be doin major drop offs etc! Any help would be appreciated.

dusk

The BFe is a bit more hardcore than the soul and takes a longer travel fork I believe so can be more of an all mountain hardtail. Although it weighs a bit more the components you attach to it will make the biggest difference in weight.

When it comes to chuckability then it's more down to geometry than weight.

I haven't ridden a Soul but I'm well happy with my BFe

mog666

Thanks for your input, yes your right about geometry but arent both bikes the same in that department?

thelonegroover

The BFe is a couple of degrees slacker and a pound heavier. Unless you need to go over 140mm, the Soul should suite you.

mog666

No i dont need more than 140mm travel, ive got an orange five for that sort of stuff, just looking for something to have fun on and flick about as apposed to all mountain! Oh and the itch to get back into hardtail land! ;-)

mog666

Dusk, can ask you do you find the bfe heavy feeling at all?

warpcow

Thelonegroover wrote:

The BFe is a couple of degrees slacker

No, it's not. It's exactly the same as the Soul's geometry.

Some of what might be described as being more 'playful' about the BFe is that it is stiffer and therefore might feel slightly more 'direct' to some. Others might describe that as making it feel 'dead' compared to the Soul though.

pesky_jones

warpcow wrote:

Thelonegroover wrote:

The BFe is a couple of degrees slacker

No, it's not. It's exactly the same as the Soul's geometry.

Some of what might be described as being more 'playful' about the BFe is that it is stiffer and therefore might feel slightly more 'direct' to some. Others might describe that as making it feel 'dead' compared to the Soul though.

Yeah to be fair I am confused now, but I was under the impression they're exactly the same geo, just BFe is different material

thelonegroover

Pesky Jones wrote:

warpcow wrote:

Thelonegroover wrote:

The BFe is a couple of degrees slacker

No, it's not. It's exactly the same as the Soul's geometry.

Some of what might be described as being more 'playful' about the BFe is that it is stiffer and therefore might feel slightly more 'direct' to some. Others might describe that as making it feel 'dead' compared to the Soul though.

Yeah to be fair I am confused now, but I was under the impression they're exactly the same geo, just BFe is different material

My mistake, They may have the same frame geo, but the BFe is designed for longer travel, which results in slacker geo. The BFe is heavier though: 4.4lbs for 17.5" againts 5.5lbs for 16".

dusk

mog666 wrote:

Dusk, can ask you do you find the bfe heavy feeling at all?

no, it's no lightweight racer but can zip along nicely. I use it for a bit of everything; 4x/dirt jumping/xc and it's been great.

tbh if people are really worried about a bit of extra weight then a steel frame really isn't for you

chrisw333

seems to me the Soul is more than enough for the OP. A touch lighter too, so seems the ideal choice.

jairaj

Sounds like the Soul would be the better choice for the riding you describe. Note while it will take 140mm fork it works best with 120mm.

mog666

Thanks all for your info, so are we concluding theres not much difference in performance bar the fact of fork allowance and the extra strength of the bfe? I just want a fun bike, that can do a trail centre now and again! I previously was looking the surge and the blender but they might be a little jump orientated for me?? chrisw333 whats an OP btw? :-/

dusk

Original poster, in this case you

jairaj

OP = original poster

Yes the Soul sounds perfect for that use. The BFe, Surge etc are for much more aggressive riding, large drops and jumps etc ... But for normal mountain biking the Soul will be a great bike.

allthegearnoidea

You'll be quite surprised by how much a soul Can do! Get oit set up and you'll possibly find the five gets a Lot les use than you expect! I've had mine for over 4 years now, absolutely Love it, run at 130mm is more than enough for Plenty of fun, and the bike urges you to push More!
The Bfe as mentioned is designed for the more hardcore riding hence the name bfe - Beefy, its a Hardcore soul,

If you can, get your self along to one of the cotic demo days and try one or see if someone local to you hjas one you can try,
If mine ever Broke, I'd replace it with another!

skinnerooony

Going through a similar quest myself. I think many of these hardcore hardtails while undoubtedly great bikes aren't really all that 'chuckable'. For me it's all about being able to get it on the back wheel. I've never ridden the cotic and it gets great reviews but I'm not sure it would be quite what you're after.

mog666

Skinnerooony- thats my dilemma exactly, manouverability over durability! Like i said before was lookin at the ns surge type of bike but as usual we all want the Do it all' bike and im just concerned that that type of bike would limit the trail side of things.

allthegearnoidea

Without wanting to sound Harsh, if you think a soul isnt chuckable then its Blindly obvious you've not ridden one!
They are incredibly chuckable and give the feeling of a bike far lighter than It is, (its Not heavy as it is).
As said, I'm not having a Go but you really need to test rise one! And about getting on its back wheel, its not the bike More the ability of the rider! ;-)

mog666

Allthegear, im fully aware of what you said and you are right, im goin to test ride the bikes , im just trying to whittle down which ones to try to save myself wasted time.

skinnerooony

Yawn...Indeed I've never ridden the Cotic and I well aware of how highly people rate them. I was just sharing my experience with the original poster. I have a Genesis Alpitude which is similar to the Cotic and while of course you can throw it about it just lacks the 'flickability' (another meaningless term) my dirt bike used to have. This is down to the geometry of these bikes as they are designed to be stable at speed and go up hills (something a dirt bike will not do well) It's an endless compromise but I'd personally sacrifice some of 'allround' performance for that priceless zing. I'm personally looking more towards the ns surge or stanton slackline which have a bit shorter wheelbase and shorter seat stays. A test ride really is the only way to know.

mog666

Lol, the surge and slackline along with the blender are also on my 'to try' list, i agree with you about some the bikes missing that certain ingredient. Can any one recommend anywhere some of these bikes can be demod?

specialeyes

http://www.18bikes.co.uk/content/18_bik ... _bikes.php they used to have a bfe for demo too but that isn't on the site.

Northwind

When people talk about the BFe as a playbike, what they basically mean it it's unkillable, rather than it being particularily "playful". I've had both and tbh I wasn't blown over by the BFe, the handling's great but it felt a bit dead/lumpy, like heavy steel frames tend to... It's not the weight, it's just the thickness of hte tubes etc, makes it all a bit solid. Capable but not inspiring, to me.

OTOH, the Soul has a seriously waggy tail, every time I rode mine I wanted to go faster, higher, further. Bloomin marvellous tbh. Bottom line I'd say is that if you can afford it and you don't need the massive strength of the BFe, then the Soul is just the better choice for most people.

(I've got a Soda now, but I still miss that Soul sometimes!)

allthegearnoidea

Minor hijack here, sorry op!
Northwind, theres a cotic owners thread in the your bikes section, be good to see a soda there! ;-) (its a new thread so a handful of bikes at the mo! )

Northwind

Sounds like a job for coticfanboyman!

(me)

mog666

Thanks Northwind thats exactly what ive been trying to distinguish, im not gonna be going to heavy and just wanted to know if you could chuck the soul about and have fun, harder hitting doesnt necessarily mean more chuckable!! Would a small size soul be ok on a pump track etc? Im trying to book demos at this moment!

jairaj

Are you specifically looking for a frame to use on dirt jumps and pump tracks? Or a general mountain bike frame for general riding and will get used occasionally on pump tracks?

If the later, get what ever size is correct for you and just ride it on the pump track. Manual, hops etc are all skills you need out on the trail while you're out riding. Might as well learn how to do them on the bike you ride normally.

Northwind

I'll have to pass on that question as I'm bloody awful at pump tracks

mog666

The later, occasional mucking around on pumps, but mostly woods and trails .

mog666

jairaj - i just think youve made a lot of sense!