Why are all the Taiwan/Eastern brands so expensive?

kammybear

Usually stuff from the east is cheaper due to raw materials and labour being so much cheaper over there but looking at the bikes, the specs for the prices for stuff like Cannondale, Trek and Specialized is outclassed easily by European brands.

It's come to the stage where when I'm browsing for bikes, I don't even bother looking at some of these brands as the specs are usually low level parts....sometimes even Acera parts on bikes costing shitloads! Nothing wrong with Acera but when other brands offer SLX or XT at the same price then something is wrong!

Specialized especially must be making bucket loads when the prices they charge. Is this likely to change with increased competition?

I just find it frustrating as I don't see any need for it and I would love to have some increased choice...

The Rookie

Hogwash....total tax may be 25%, but import duty is only 5%, the rest is VAT applied to all sales...so not valid in the above comparison.

Many of the best VFM bikes come from Taiwian (Merida, Voodoo, Boardman, Carrera).

The European bikes are about 80% by cost Tawianese parts anyway...and those parts are subject to import duty on the way in.

It's the likes of Spesh and Trek etc being greedy, they know mugs will pay a lot for the name, so charge for it, simple answer is don't be a mug.

kammybear

Exactly.

Even most euro frames are made in Taiwan and shimano stuff in Japan. Trek and others although not competitive have nothing on Specialised. I was stupid enough to buy a Hardrock Disk as my first bike. Awful spec for the cash and the pattern repeats itself all over their range!

russyh

Off Duty Calculator.com website:

Duty Rates
The duty rates applied to imports into the United Kingdom typically range between 0% (for example books) and 17% (for example Wellington Boots). Some products, such as Laptops, Mobile Phones, Digital cameras and Video Game consoles, are duty free. However, certain goods may even be subject to additional duties depending on the country of manufacture, for example Bicycles made in China carry an additional (anti dumping) duty of 48.5%.

Import Duty from Taiwan is 15% plus 20% VAT. There may also be a further Anti Dumping duty of 48.5%

Calculate it yourself:
http://www.dutycalculator.com/new-impor ... 185388251/

The Rookie

Doesn't stop Tawian made bikes being some of the best VFM (as above), it's the name brands being greedy.....

nicklouse

The Beginner wrote:

Hogwash....total tax may be 25%, but import duty is only 5%, the rest is VAT applied to all sales...so not valid in the above comparison.

not quite correct.

import duty on complete bikes or even a container containing all the parts to make a number of full bikes is 15%. parts is yes about 5%

or at least this was correct the last time i looked at it, but HMRC have made thier site as navigable as a dessert.

See the link above

The Rookie

Indeed.....doesn't change the comparison though.....

adamfo

The bigger European brands do quite a bit of assembly themselves. The Cube promotional video shows wheel building machines at work and frames from Taiwan arriving unpainted. Many Shimano parts are made in Malaysia. Clearly companies like this are set up to pay the reduced import rates on parts not complete bikes.

njee20

But none of the brands you mention in the OP are eastern/Taiwanese, Giant are about the only big brand that are. Most European brands are no cheaper either, although there are an increasing number of direct to sale brands that seem to crop up largely from Germany! That said Cube seem to be doing a good job of straddling the line between being cheap and having a dealer network.

YeehaaMcgee

My theory is... A lot of the groundwork and R&D is done by the bigger brands. Once the far eastern factories start churning out their frames, a lot of the smaller players will buy those frames from the production facilities. Maybe even "last year's" frames.
This means they get nicely built frames, but don't incur the cost of R&D.

jairaj

YeehaaMcgee wrote:

My theory is... A lot of the groundwork and R&D is done by the bigger brands. Once the far eastern factories start churning out their frames, a lot of the smaller players will buy those frames from the production facilities. Maybe even "last year's" frames.
This means they get nicely built frames, but don't incur the cost of R&D.

Yep I agree with this. Trek and Spec and others spend much more on R&D , marketing and race teams so have higher prices to get some of that back.

If you look at their budget or low end ranges, they will be uncompetitive. But look at some of their newest high end frames and they may have features that others do not. But then wait till next year and those features might be seen other bikes too.

The Rookie

Seems a bit unfair for someone buying a Lardrock to fund the R&D for someone buy an S-Works Enduro.......

I don't buy it though - I think it's just making all the profit they can, and if mugs will pay it they will take it, if people did the sensible thing and didn't buy them I'm sure Trek/Spesh etc would find they could cut the price all of a sudden!

felix.london

kammybear wrote:

the specs for the prices for stuff like Cannondale, Trek and Specialized is outclassed easily by European brands

:?

njee20 wrote:

But none of the brands you mention in the OP are eastern/Taiwanese

this ^

YeehaaMcgee

The Beginner wrote:

Seems a bit unfair for someone buying a Lardrock to fund the R&D...

Doesn't matter where the money goes, you pay your money to the company, it goes to the company. What's unfair about that?

kammybear

felix.london wrote:

kammybear wrote:

the specs for the prices for stuff like Cannondale, Trek and Specialized is outclassed easily by European brands

:?

njee20 wrote:

But none of the brands you mention in the OP are eastern/Taiwanese

this ^

I'm pretty sure they're all eastern brands or at least started out at as western before the taiwanese bought them up!

Just did a wiki. Specialized is 49% owned by Merida (Taiwan), Giant is Taiwanese, Trek is american still so that doesn't count and Cannondale is American/Canadian.

njee20

So exactly as I said, none of the brands you mentioned are Eastern/Taiwanese. Giant are the only one of the 'big guys' who are.

Spesh are still very much American, still run by Mike Sinyard who set them up, and still based in Morgan Hills.

felix.london

kammybear wrote:

felix.london wrote:

kammybear wrote:

the specs for the prices for stuff like Cannondale, Trek and Specialized is outclassed easily by European brands

:?

njee20 wrote:

But none of the brands you mention in the OP are eastern/Taiwanese

this ^

I'm pretty sure they're all eastern brands or at least started out at as western before the taiwanese bought them up!

Just did a wiki. Specialized is 49% owned by Merida (Taiwan), Giant is Taiwanese, Trek is american still so that doesn't count and Cannondale is American/Canadian.

again..wtf?? :?

1/ 49% does not a company own

2/ you didn't mention Giant

3/ Yes - Trek is American

4/ Cannondale might be owned by a Canadian company but I don't see how that makes it "Taiwan/Eastern" - maybe Eastern Canadia?

YeehaaMcgee

Maybe he lives in Russia, and he's using that as his datum, which means that Amuuuricuh, is to his east?

kammybear

lol

Dudes, chill out! I was under the impression that trek, specialized and cannondale were all from Taiwan or former american companies etc.

Either way, they have extensive Taiwan connections and get their parts all from the same places ie Shimano and SRAM more or less. So what are their excuses? Companies like Whyte and Orange can justify it cos they're kinda niche brands with a rep but Cube or Specialised? At the mass market, there is nothing to justify the price. R&D is kinda moot as Specialized have been using the same frames for a while...even downgrading frames for some models to older stuff.

Just making an observation etc!

Kowalski675

I know Giant are Taiwanese, but I noticed the Trance X2 in my local shop has a sticker on it saying "Made in Netherlands". Not sure if that just means it was assembled there.

The Rookie

Read the original post and you'll see the comment is irrekevant as it was the comparison between the mainstream brands and the others they were asking about, not what is suggested in the title.

felix.london

you seem to be very confused.

Spesh have been downgrading their frames?..qué?

Don't understand that one at all. Unless you mean the clean sweep of replacing most of their 26" bikes with 29ers as a downgrade?...I might be inclined to agree with that

They're pumping out top level, elite race bikes and have had winning teams in every discipline* in cycling and have huge HQ's all over the world.

Orange have frames made in the far east too...don't really get your point

Anyway - why the hating on Taiwan?..as far as I can see those guys are putting together very good bike frames (for everyone)

*non-official stats pulled out of thin air

YeehaaMcgee

kammybear wrote:

Either way, they have extensive Taiwan connections and get their parts all from the same places ie Shimano and SRAM more or less. So what are their excuses?

Say what now?
What would you rather, Campag, or Suntour?
Now, I'm making assumptions here because I know nothing (and care less) about Campag and Suntour, but I'd wager that they're probably made in the far east as well.

cooldad

Campag far East? Go to the roadie section, bend over and prepare to be disciplined.

TBH I have no idea neither, but I bet someone over there is spitting at you.

YeehaaMcgee

I don't really care. They could be carved by ancient mountain dwelling ninjas from the frozen tears of virgin unicorn babies for all I care.

adamfo

kammybear wrote:

lol

Dudes, chill out! I was under the impression that trek, specialized and cannondale were all from Taiwan or former american companies etc.

Most of their stuff is made in Taiwan. I have a Cannondale super six roadbike the carbon frame says made in Taiwan. The forks China, the Mavic wheels Romania. The tyres and Shimano 105 groupset Malaysia. FSA Crankset Taiwan.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_bi ... _companies

cooldad

And in breaking news, people work out that loads of stuff is made in the far East.
I think if you check, most Orange frames are as well.

The Rookie

kammybear wrote:

Usually stuff from the east is cheaper due to raw materials

Just spotted this, raw mats are a commodity and are no cheaper in the far east.....I work for an Indian company and they cost pretty much the same as they do in the UK/Europe... (Slight transport cost differences depending on source locations)

thelonegroover

njee20 wrote:

So exactly as I said, none of the brands you mentioned are Eastern/Taiwanese. Giant are the only one of the 'big guys' who are.
Spesh are still very much American, still run by Mike Sinyard who set them up, and still based in Morgan Hills.

Does this make sense. Giant and Merida are probably the two largest frame makers in the world, they both Taiwanese.

The German direct sales companies should be cheaper, they have no retailer cut to include.

Cube are very clever with specing kit, but the frames are not as good as Trek.

The Rookie

Thelonegroover wrote:

Cube are very clever with specing kit, but the frames are not as good as Trek.

Yes but an extra £10-20 on a frame is a fairly large proportion of it's cost but pretty irrelevant in the total cost of a bike, so it's not really relevant to the overall argument (while valid when selecting a bike).

thelonegroover

Where did £10-20 on a frame come from?