Is it even possible to get the chain clean

p a t r i c k

I have been using the Scottoiler bicycle chain lubrication system on my workhorse bicycle and my touring bicycle since January 2006. I originally got it because I find cleaning chains and derailleurs to be a total bore. With the Scottoiler system cleaning chains is much easier, but better still, I have found that cleaning chains is effectively optional.

So, you might ask, why is that?

And the answer is that the lubricant is water based. So you can clean it off with water. It makes a huge difference. If I wish I can clean the chain and cassette with just a bucket of water and toothbrush. A rag would do just as well. There's no degreaser or anything required.

I have found that I don't need to clean chains with it. The gunk buildup is extremely low and so it never gets bad enough to influence shifting, so I just forget about it.

There are other advantages as well, such as extended life of drivetrain components, but if I go on too much it will look like an advertisement

I have no connection at all with the Scottoiler company. I am just a regular user who has been using this for over 7 years now.

You can read more about it if you like at a page I put together at my website:

Information about Scottoiler Active Fluid System

If you want to buy it, then a good place is Hardie Bikes in Scotland. They are knowledgeable about the system and will post it out to you. I live on the south coast of England but I use Hardie Bikes because I like them and they post things quickly.

denniskwok

p a t r i c k wrote:

but better still, I have found that cleaning chains is effectively optional.

Cleaning chains is always optional.

p a t r i c k wrote:

I have found that I don't need to clean chains with it. The gunk buildup is extremely low and so it never gets bad enough to influence shifting, so I just forget about it.

A lot of other normal lubes do exactly the same thing.

p a t r i c k wrote:

There are other advantages as well, such as extended life of drivetrain components,

So its just like other lubes then.

p a t r i c k wrote:

You can read more about it if you like at a page I put together at my website:

Information about Scottoiler Active Fluid System

If you want to buy it, then a good place is Hardie Bikes in Scotland. They are knowledgeable about the system and will post it out to you. I live on the south coast of England but I use Hardie Bikes because I like them and they post things quickly.

So you have to ride around with a tank of lube attached to your bike, a handlebar mounted pump and associated tubing. The lube gets washed off in wet weather, so you have to keep reapplying every five to ten miles???. Where does the washed off lube go when you're riding? Straight onto the braking surfaces of your rims? :? What if you crash and the tank of lube gets spilled all over your bike and clothes? It's just as well that it can be washed off with water.

Interesting idea and glad to see it works for you, but I will be sticking to Rock 'n' Roll blue. Apart from being easy to wash off with water, I cannot see any advantages of the Scottoiler system unless you like making things much more complicated and adding weight to your bike.

Ouija

Lol. What next? Strapping batteries to the frame to electronically shift the gears? Air bottles attached to frames to dynamically adjust tyre pressures?

denniskwok

Ouija wrote:

Lol. What next? Strapping batteries to the frame to electronically shift the gears? Air bottles attached to frames to dynamically adjust tyre pressures?

Not sure if you are you being deliberately ironic? :?

Ouija

Just poking fun at some of the 'modern' innovations for bikes. Sort of like re-inventing the wheel. Imagine if your bike had all three of the above components strapped to it to 'improve' it's performance. End up looking like the space shuttle and weigh about as much. Personally, i think i would just rather lube the chain normally, use regular mechanical gear shifters and carry a pump around with me and ride a lighter bike which required a little more maintenance.

Mark Alexander

I haven't been through all the responses. Use one of these for the chain.
http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Mode ... tAod1jUAGQ

There are cheaper ones than Park Tool of course. make sure the jockey wheels are clean then cleaning the chain will stay clean until you ride it again of course. you can do it with a rag and washing up liquid if you want to just something that is a de-greaser. soft wire brushes are good. All these brushes and branded things aren't needed.

Boromedic

I'm not officially a roadie till I get my new bike, but MTB'ing is one way to get a mucked up chain so I can vouch for cleaning methods.

I've tried the machines, sprays, degreasers etc. and then I read this article:

http://www.kmcchain.eu/?en/maintenance/

They say not to degrease so I don't anymore, if they don't know what they're talking about then who does. Bought some Rock n Roll blue and followed KMC's instructions and I've never had any shifting or noise issues since or a dirty chain for that matter, except of course when I get back from the Peaks!

p a t r i c k

In response to the couple of negative comments about the Scottoiler Active Fluid System, I will write that I am really glad I am not someone who dismisses things I have no experience or knowledge of. It is my openness to new ideas that enabled me to adopt the Scottoiler Active Fluid System in the first place and I am very glad I did.

Of course I know very well that unfortunately many cyclists are deeply conservative and so tend to reject new ideas, often with no experience of them or knowledge of them. There is nothing new in that, In 1894 variable gearing was first appearing on some bicycles. The American Manchinist completely rejected this new idea concluding:

All things considered the best results will be obtained by choosing a gear best adapted to the rider and the conditions under which he rides. He can then walk up hills which he cannot comfortably climb, and it will be better both for him and his machine that he should do so.

Had this surprisingly widespread rejection of variable gears not eventually been overcome then today of course we would all be single speed riders.

I write that with the Scottoiler system that I have found cleaning chains to be optional. denniskwok writes that:

denniskwok wrote:

Cleaning chains is always optional.

However it is sort of obvious that I mean I have found there is no practical disadvantage to not cleaning chains with the Scottoiler system.

Normal oil based chain lubrication systems have a major drawback which is that the "stickiness" of the oil, required to keep it on the chain will attract small particles of dust and debris. The more the bicycle is used the more these particles build up on the chain, the oil becomes like a grinding paste, wearing out the chain and increasingly making the chain inefficient.

Depending on the oil the stickiness varies, if it is not very sticky, it will not attract as much debris, but you will find that you will have to keep applying, and this increased amount of oil will attract the debris.

The Scottoiler solution is a micro-emulsion which contains no oil. The microscopic particles are carried to the chain in water and these have almost no stickiness with regard to debris, but they do remain adhering to the chain. To understand why they adhere to the chain, but do not attract dust and debris you should consider that the lubricating particles do not bond together on the chain like oil particles and so they do not present a coherent sticky surface for debris to adhere to.

And so with the Scottoiler system my experience is that the build up of debris is extremely reduced compared with any regular oil lubrication I have tried.

To give an indication of how nice the system is, I will describe to you this experience which I think all keen cyclists will have had.

After a period of time your chain drive has become noisy in use. You may have problems shifting in some gears, and you may not. However, you decide to clean your chain etc. After cleaning you go out on the bicycle and you notice that it is quieter, that it is more efficient and the shifting is very fast and slick. Using regular oil that pleasant experience is relatively short lived, but with the Scottoiler system that is how your bicycle will be always.

Although I do encounter negativity from those that have never tried the Scottoiler system, I have yet to meet someone that is using it who does not think that it is really rather excellent.

There are a few other points raised by denniskwok which are minor and I will address here:

denniskwok wrote:

Where does the washed off lube go when you're riding? Straight onto the braking surfaces of your rims?

Well the washing off during rain happens to regular oil as well as the Scottoiler fluid. The truth is that in either case the amount that goes onto braking surface of the rim in that situation is so tiny and dissipated of course it will have no effect on braking.

denniskwok wrote:

What if you crash and the tank of lube gets spilled all over your bike and clothes? It's just as well that it can be washed off with water.

Well yes it can be washed off with water. The tank is well sealed and I don't think anyone would consider the likelihood of it going onto their clothes in a crash to be very great. On your bicycle there might be large drinking bottles full of fluid which will present a much greater threat to your clothing.

denniskwok wrote:

I cannot see any advantages of the Scottoiler system unless you like making things much more complicated and adding weight to your bike.

denniskwok cannot see any advantages because he/she has never tried it. The Scottoiler system is very simple, but for me the most interesting complaint here is that the Scottoiler will be adding weight to your bike. The weight of course is tiny, but what is amazing, is to be concerned about that weight, but not see the advantages in efficiency of having a transmission which is always with very low levels of debris.

It is possible that over the years I have cleaned more chains than the detractors have had rides on their bicycles. I am delighted that I have put that tedious task behind me.

denniskwok

Like I've already said, I'm glad that it works for you, but I will be sticking with Rock 'n' Roll blue. It doesn't attract dirt, cleaning and lubing a chain with it is as simple as giving it a wipe, reapplying, leave for a few seconds and wipe off. It's arguably less hassle and less tedius than filling your lube tank and having to remember to pump lube every 5 - 10 miles, not to mention you don't need a tank and associated gubbins, etc.

You compare the invention of the Scottoiler system to the invention of variable gearing, but I personally don't think that a plastic tank, some tubing and a hand pump qualifies as being equally significant in the history of the bicycle.

Each to their own though. If it works for you, then great!

napoleond

Just posted this on twitter...

Best way to clean your bike?

Watch this: http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?feature=yo ... 3Dyoutu.be

Then buy this: http://www.wiggle.co.uk/morgan-blue-com ... th-bucket/

fsman

If you really want clean components then get your self some Viro-sol from your local janitor suppllier.

If is a strong degreaser/cleaner. You will need to dilulate 1:3 or 1:5 for chain and grear cleaning. Remember to wash off with water straight after. You can also use it diluted 1:100 into a spray gun as a general cleaner (similar to branded products). If you chain is very dirty, you could take the chain off and put neat virosol on too.
It is strong stuff, so don't get it on your nice bike or bearings undiluted.