Surrey roads: REPORT IT!

ugo.santalucia

Here is the link to report problems on Surrey roads

http://www.surreycc.gov.uk/do-it-online ... -it-online

I start... I reported:

Beech Ave./Critten lane Effingham, report no. MG 00429743
Ranmore common road going to Chapel Lane, Dorking no. MG 00429743

ugo.santalucia

Got an answer

"I can confirm that this actual road i believe you are enquiring about is Critten Lane which follows directly on from Beech Avenue.
I can also then confirm that it is likely this entire stretch of road is due to be resurfaced in 2013-2014, in the mean time we are trying to keep the location safe and are frequently making safe immediate defects here in the road surface and will remain doing so until such time as the road is fully resurfaced."

smidsy

That is the best non answer I have read for a while :-)

drlodge

Critten Lane, descending, is really dangerous! Nice one Ugo.

barrybridges

I fully support this campaign, but I think the fundamental issue here is being missed.

I live over by Oxted, so on the far East of Surrey in the corner with Kent and Sussex. I fall under the Tandridge district.

The roads around here are shockingly bad; I really can't use a superlative that is strong enough. I wouldn't describe them as simply 'poor', but actually 'dangerous' in terms of your ability to ride them.

Old Portlians CC run an evening TT series around Crowhurst/Lingfield and this had to be shifted to an entirely different circuit because of problems with the road surface (admittedly it also involved roadworks as the council were trying to fix things).

Some of the lanes around Edenbridge are so bad that unless you've gripped the bars tightly you will easily be shaken off your bike; entire roads are no-go areas for cyclists.

Yesterday, I buckled my rear wheel which makes it 2 buckles in a month (and £30 worse off), all because of hitting potholes, crevices, gouges or holes in the road.

So, why is this campaign misguided?

It's misguided because this is issue is not about 'potholes'; it's about 'poor road conditions generally'.

Surrey County Council's tool asks you to report specific potholes for inspection, but on the local loop around me there are probably 1000+ potholes that need dealing with. Who's got the time to report them all?

What needs to happen is councils can received general warnings from cyclists that say, "hey, Dwelly Lane from Edenbridge to Hurst Green is in a pretty bad state', rather than requiring us to report individual holes along that route".

It has got to the point now where certain roads are off-limits on a road bike and it's massively putting me off riding in certain places.

Just appalling. Surrey County Council really need to sort their act out because it's disgusting. In Tandridge we pay one of the highest council tax rates in the whole of the UK and yet the roads are of a standard you'd expect in the middle ages.

ugo.santalucia

barrybridges wrote:

I fully support this campaign, but I think the fundamental issue here is being missed.

I live over by Oxted, so on the far East of Surrey in the corner with Kent and Sussex. I fall under the Tandridge district.

The roads around here are shockingly bad; I really can't use a superlative that is strong enough. I wouldn't describe them as simply 'poor', but actually 'dangerous' in terms of your ability to ride them.

Old Portlians CC run an evening TT series around Crowhurst/Lingfield and this had to be shifted to an entirely different circuit because of problems with the road surface (admittedly it also involved roadworks as the council were trying to fix things).

Some of the lanes around Edenbridge are so bad that unless you've gripped the bars tightly you will easily be shaken off your bike; entire roads are no-go areas for cyclists.

Yesterday, I buckled my rear wheel which makes it 2 buckles in a month (and £30 worse off), all because of hitting potholes, crevices, gouges or holes in the road.

So, why is this campaign misguided?

It's misguided because this is issue is not about 'potholes'; it's about 'poor road conditions generally'.

Surrey County Council's tool asks you to report specific potholes for inspection, but on the local loop around me there are probably 1000+ potholes that need dealing with. Who's got the time to report them all?

What needs to happen is councils can received general warnings from cyclists that say, "hey, Dwelly Lane from Edenbridge to Hurst Green is in a pretty bad state', rather than requiring us to report individual holes along that route".

It has got to the point now where certain roads are off-limits on a road bike and it's massively putting me off riding in certain places.

Just appalling. Surrey County Council really need to sort their act out because it's disgusting. In Tandridge we pay one of the highest council tax rates in the whole of the UK and yet the roads are of a standard you'd expect in the middle ages.

I understand your frustration, but you need to use the tool and report the state of the road, there is an option to report cracked surface, not just specific potholes. Once the report is filled, the council has the obligation to repair the road, if it doesn't you have the right to make a claim in case your bike gets damaged. No report = no compensation.
See this as the beginning of something like a class action.
Councils boast their council tax freeze, but obviously they have to cut services... personally I'd rather pay 20 pounds a month more and have decent roads...

AchillesLeftKnee

Cheers for the link Ugo. There's a few local caverns I'll be reporting. I don't expect perfect roads, but some are getting seriously silly now, even in the car.

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Councils boast their council tax freeze, but obviously they have to cut services... personally I'd rather pay 20 pounds a month more and have decent roads...

Well, that's one you can't accuse them of. It went up 2% (ish) this year.

ugo.santalucia

AchillesLeftKnee wrote:

Cheers for the link Ugo. There's a few local caverns I'll be reporting. I don't expect perfect roads, but some are getting seriously silly now, even in the car.

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Councils boast their council tax freeze, but obviously they have to cut services... personally I'd rather pay 20 pounds a month more and have decent roads...

Well, that's one you can't accuse them of. It went up 2% (ish) this year.

2% is not enough... there has been a freeze since I remember... it should go up 10% with a significant improvement in services, at least for the wealthy areas of the country, who can afford to pay... what's the point of a council tax freeze if half of the residents drive cars worth 50K? I know there is also the other half and I am in there, as I drive 3K worth of car... I'd have to pay an extra 16 pounds a month... I can assure you it won't make any difference whatsoever to my standard of living

barrybridges

I would happily pay more on my council tax if I knew that it meant something was going to be done, but sadly I can easily envisage that surplus being directed into all manner of things of which I have no interest.

Surrey County Council spent £21k just on putting stickers onto the 'Welcome to Surrey' roadsigns indicating that it was a 'London 2012 host county', so I doubt they have much awareness of financial priorities.

ugo.santalucia

barrybridges wrote:

I would happily pay more on my council tax if I knew that it meant something was going to be done, but sadly I can easily envisage that surplus being directed into all manner of things of which I have no interest.

Surrey County Council spent £21k just on putting stickers onto the 'Welcome to Surrey' roadsigns indicating that it was a 'London 2012 host county', so I doubt they have much awareness of financial priorities.

They would if people complained more...we don't complain enough, clearly... keep reporting the problems... try to get compensation for your damage, basically the more the noise, the more the problem climbs the agenda.

AchillesLeftKnee

ugo.santalucia wrote:

AchillesLeftKnee wrote:

Cheers for the link Ugo. There's a few local caverns I'll be reporting. I don't expect perfect roads, but some are getting seriously silly now, even in the car.

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Councils boast their council tax freeze, but obviously they have to cut services... personally I'd rather pay 20 pounds a month more and have decent roads...

Well, that's one you can't accuse them of. It went up 2% (ish) this year.

2% is not enough... there has been a freeze since I remember... it should go up 10% with a significant improvement in services, at least for the wealthy areas of the country, who can afford to pay... what's the point of a council tax freeze if half of the residents drive cars worth 50K? I know there is also the other half and I am in there, as I drive 3K worth of car... I'd have to pay an extra 16 pounds a month... I can assure you it won't make any difference whatsoever to my standard of living

I'm in pretty much the same financial position as yourself by the sounds of it, although basing such things on vehicle worth is a bit of a dubious metric. Yeah, £16 a month wouldn't hurt me, clearly, but I really don't think that's the problem. I've lived in various locations around the UK, and I can safely say I have never seen any kind of correlation between local taxation levels (which are random) and quality of services (which are also random).

I think the problem with Surrey's roads just comes from the department in charge of them being a load of inefficient, badly managed rubbish, and chucking more money at them would just end up with equally poor service but at higher cost. I paid a similar amount when I lived in West Sussex, and the roads are quite a bit better. My parents pay a similar amount in Dorset and the roads there are better. Surrey CC's roads department* are, IMHO, just rubbish at what they do.

* Not all of them, clearly. They may well have some very talented people indeed, but it sure as anything can't be well run.

rpherts

An upsurge in painting yellow lines around road defects looks to be in the cards in Surrey.

barrybridges

I think the problem is really more complicated than that.

Firstly, Surrey is a bit, busy, crowded county with a lot people, so you might argue it's a more difficult budget to balance than in other parts of the UK.

Secondly, there are a lot of roads in Surrey and it takes in a much wider range of conditions. Surrey encompasses some parts of London, but it also includes lots of little country lanes and villages. Let's not forget, Brixton is (technically) in Surrey...

Third, we've had a really weird winter (in fact, several winters) in this part of the world, which exacerbates the problem.

Fourth, the mechanisms for reporting poor road conditions are pretty weak and rely on someone with enough motivation to go and do it. Heck, I would class myself as in the top 0.00001% when it comes to being vocal on the issue, but do I have time to go and report all the potholes in this area? No way! I can only report the biggest issues.

Fifth, I do seriously believe that councils don't give a shit about cyclists. If cars can go down it then why would they bother? It's only when a road begins damaging cars that they tend to take action.

Sixth, there's a mentality of 'short term repairs' in place. Nothing is ever repaired for the long term.

drlodge

barrybridges wrote:

I think the problem is really more complicated than that.

Fourth, the mechanisms for reporting poor road conditions are pretty weak and rely on someone with enough motivation to go and do it. Heck, I would class myself as in the top 0.00001% when it comes to being vocal on the issue, but do I have time to go and report all the potholes in this area? No way! I can only report the biggest issues.

I agree the mechansism for reporting crap roads are poor, and Surrey is a bit of a special case. What I would dearly love is a function on my Garmin e.g. double tap the screen while riding, so it captures the location of a pot hole/poor road I just spotted, and seamlessly uploads the location to the appropriate web site somewhere when I get home.

Guanajuato

drlodge wrote:

What I would dearly love is a function on my Garmin e.g. double tap the screen while riding, so it captures the location of a pot hole/poor road I just spotted, and seamlessly uploads the location to the appropriate web site somewhere when I get home.

Do the cycling GPSs not allow easy waypoint creation? On a more flexible Garmin, a long press creates a new waypoint.

canoas

Nice one Ugo.

I'm glad my original thread has made some noise. I'll be reporting some more pot holes to Surrey CC. I don't see the point in filling potholes, yes on an immediate basis but not long term. The holes reopen too quickly, a waste of time and money. I just don't get it when you travel to the continent of any other 1st world country, the roads are smooth as silk mostly or they feel that way when you come from Surrey!

Don't see the point either of buying expensive wheels to ride in Surrey, save them for crit races on circuits like Hillingdon or Crystal Palace.

It's almost becoming unpleasant to ride SH, a real pity. The more pressure we put on Councils the more they will listen. "You can never beat the people" if their not on your side!

Revolution man!

drlodge

canoas wrote:

Don't see the point either of buying expensive wheels to ride in Surrey, save them for crit races on circuits like Hillingdon or Crystal Palace.

Which is why I went for Record hubs, 32 holes and Excellight rims - I don't need light at the expensive of strength! Nearly 2000 miles so far on Surrey roads and still straight

Chastise1943

Rode the resurfaced descent from Leith Hill down to Dorking yesterday. Coldharbour Lane is a sea of gravel for 2 miles. Throw in the tunnel of trees which make seeing the surface difficult anyway and you have an absolute death trap. Even with the 'Slow 20MPH' skid warning signs. I have never ridden on a more dangerous section of road in the UK.

drlodge

Frattonise wrote:

Rode the resurfaced descent from Leith Hill down to Dorking yesterday. Coldharbour Lane is a sea of gravel for 2 miles. Throw in the tunnel of trees which make seeing the surface difficult anyway and you have an absolute death trap. Even with the 'Slow 20MPH' skid warning signs. I have never ridden on a more dangerous section of road in the UK.

Me too! Did that same route yesterday and it was hard work trying to stay upright. Also went up Ranmore hill and there was another similar resurfaced patch somewhere, but wasn't as bad. Must have been done a while ago.

Went down Critten Lane and it hasn't been touched, bloody awful. Hopefully this is next on the list to resurface, it sure as hell needs it. Why didn't SCC resurface Critten lane rather than Coldharbour?

Chastise1943

Leith Hill has become Lethal. Reported the severe gravel danger to cyclists on Coldharbour Lane to Surrey County Council on 8 July.

gonch_dcb

I came across the new gravel surface on the road down from Coldharbour to Dorking a few days ago, and it made for quite a scary experience. However, I was out early on Saturday morning, and turning left from the A25 at Abinger Hammer into Felday Road which takes you up to Holmbury St. Mary. It was only when I was sliding across the road on my back side that I discovered that they have also resurfaced this road in the same way. There was a thick layer of gravel that had been left on the corner of the junction, and I didn't have a chance of staying upright. Shorts ripped, burns and cuts on my leg, backside and hand. Fortunately it was early and few cars around, but I could have been sliding into a car coming down the road in the opposite direction.

The previous week I had been up this road, and found the surface to be fine. Whilst my cuts and burns will heal, my main concern is that this is the road which will be used for the London-Surrey Classic, that I am taking part in as my first ever 'sportive', and will it really be suitable for the 20,000 cyclists who will be using it?

I am no expert in road maintenance, but is this the right way to resurface roads? Do they just rely on cars to press down the gravel, and smooth out the surface. Is there no sweeping or collection of the excess gravel? There had certainly been no attempt to clear away the large amount of gravel that had been left at the junction.
I'm guessing that this is a 'quick and dirty' method for small roads. Surely the council know that the huge number of cyclists that use their lanes, and are keen to publicize their cycling credentials as a county, but have not taken this into account when deciding on the methods to repairs these lanes.

I've reported it on the SCC website, and will be interested in their response.

LuckyMap63

I'm very interested in what everyone is saying about the state of the roads in Surrey. I live in Bookham and I must admit I have come across all of the problems that people have mentioned! Roads 2/3 INCHES deep in gravel clippings after top dressing! Lethal! Horsley was a case in point in mid July. They did spend a day sweeping the roads, about 2 weeks after the dressing. Great big chunks of Tarmac in the roads having been broken from joints around manhole and drain covers, leaving lovely potholes!
Has anybody tried riding the cycle lanes beside the A3 opposite Wisley or going south from Mickleham to Boxhill? Take my advise DON'T! It would be safer on the main carriageway!
The habit of top dressing roads is to save councils money. It is supposed to extend the life of the road for upto 10 years! However, after the first 2/3 years the surface breaks up from the edges and around manholes,the sun melts the layer of tar under the chips and tyres pull up the surface, making life for cyclists uncomfortable. Most of the roads in Surrey are like this now, main roads and lanes.
Something that might be pertinent, Surrey Highways are responsible for main roads in the county, local councils for B roads, as I understand the situation. Apparently, it costs about £350,000 per km to properly resurface a road. However, it costs £35,000 per km to top dress a road. The cost savings say it all!
At the end of the day, roads will only be patched. It is cheaper for councils to pay compensation for damage to individual cars, motorbikes and bicycles than it is to repair the road properly. Good luck there!