Cav vs Greipel

pottssteve

Hoi Hoi!

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The rider list for the Ster ZLM Toer 2013 (formally the Ster Elektrotoer) has been announced:

http://www.sterzlmtoer.nl/index.php?page=1&lang=en

Cavendish is riding to defend his title and he will be up against Andre the Giant, together with Marcel Kittel, amongst others. The 5 day race kicks off with a prologue on Wednesday next week and is relatively sprinter-friendly. However, stages 3 and 4 are run around Limburg and into the Ardennes and favour the puncheur or rouler .

Most teams are using it as a Tour warm up, but nevertheless last year was hotly contested, and Cav hates to lose. I have a vested interest as I work for the organisers doing translations and hopefully will get the opportunity to interview riders after a couple of the stages for media release. This is ideal as I have the perfect face for radio... There will be daily updates on the website.

Tot ziens!

Steve

lostboysaint

No contest.

edhornby

I think Cav vs Kittel would be a closer match but the Manx Missile remains the man to beat

Walter White

lostboysaint wrote:

No contest.

That^

pottssteve

Agreed that Cavendish is the man to beat in the sprints although, interestingly, he won here last year without a getting a stage win.
It will also be interesting to see how he manages on the hillier stages. Much of stage 3 covers Amstel Gold territory while stage 4 has sections from LBL. When he rode last year it was noticeable that he was slimming down and working on staying strong on the climbs, and I think he's continued that trend this year while obviously not losing anything in terms of sprinting speed.

Steve

LeicesterLad

edhornby wrote:

I think Cav vs Kittel would be a closer match but the Manx Missile remains the man to beat

Not sure I agree with that - Kittel hasn't been the shining light he was last year whilst Greipel has won a lot.

Cav has won 14 stages this year whilst Greipel has won 10 and sits one place behind Cav on the CQ ranking.

I'm sure I read not long ago that Greipel was putting out similar if not better power date than Cavendish - it's just that Cavendish still has an acceleration advantage so it will be interesting especially if Greipel launches his sprints at the right time.

Having said that still think Cavendish will do him - he has the edge in acceleration and position.

andyp

pottssteve wrote:

Agreed that Cavendish is the man to beat in the sprints although, interestingly, he won here last year without a getting a stage win.
It will also be interesting to see how he manages on the hillier stages. Much of stage 3 covers Amstel Gold territory while stage 4 has sections from LBL. When he rode last year it was noticeable that he was slimming down and working on staying strong on the climbs, and I think he's continued that trend this year while obviously not losing anything in terms of sprinting speed.

Steve

That was with the Olympic RR in mind. Not sure he needs to be as slim this year.

Richmond Racer

LeicesterLad wrote:

edhornby wrote:

I think Cav vs Kittel would be a closer match but the Manx Missile remains the man to beat

Not sure I agree with that - Kittel hasn't been the shining light he was last year whilst Greipel has won a lot.

Cav has won 14 stages this year whilst Greipel has won 10 and sits one place behind Cav on the CQ ranking.

I'm sure I read not long ago that Greipel was putting out similar if not better power date than Cavendish - it's just that Cavendish still has an acceleration advantage so it will be interesting especially if Greipel launches his sprints at the right time.

Having said that still think Cavendish will do him - he has the edge in acceleration and position.

^this. Plus Cav's sprinter brain that's unmatched by any of his rivals'. Cav's top dog, with Griepel next, and Kittel a rung below

lostboysaint

Richmond Racer wrote:

LeicesterLad wrote:

edhornby wrote:

I think Cav vs Kittel would be a closer match but the Manx Missile remains the man to beat

Not sure I agree with that - Kittel hasn't been the shining light he was last year whilst Greipel has won a lot.

Cav has won 14 stages this year whilst Greipel has won 10 and sits one place behind Cav on the CQ ranking.

I'm sure I read not long ago that Greipel was putting out similar if not better power date than Cavendish - it's just that Cavendish still has an acceleration advantage so it will be interesting especially if Greipel launches his sprints at the right time.

Having said that still think Cavendish will do him - he has the edge in acceleration and position.

^this. Plus Cav's sprinter brain that's unmatched by any of his rivals'. Cav's top dog, with Griepel next, and Kittel a rung below

Very much that!!!

And it always makes me smile when power output is raised in these discussions. Everyone knows that Cav's power is nowhere near what it "should" be for a sprinter but it doesn't seem to have bothered him so far.

goonz

Whats Sagan up to at the moment? Gone a bit quiet after the Tour of Cali?

graeme_s-2

You only need to look at Greipel and Cav sprinting to see Greipel would require more watts to do the same speed as Cav. Cav is miles more aero being smaller and getting so low when he sprints.



I often find it hard to spot Cav in the peloton before he launches his sprint as he's so low down and tucked right into the slipstream of whichever rider's wheel he's planning to come off.

goonz

Plus I reckon Greipel expends so much energy with his crazy head bobbing.

Although check out the size of those thighs!

graeme_s-2

I also think it's interesting the way other riders bob their heads, or look at the ground (like the OGE rider (Goss?) in the photo). Cav always looks straight ahead, right at the finish line.

goonz

Cav's sprint technique is just so smooth and perfect. He does not expend any unneccesary energy which is what tells him apart.

Some clips on youtube showing his side on show how smooth he is, whilst others just seem to be fighting their bikes or bodies to the line.

Daz555

Greipel looks like a track sprinter with bad technique.

Very effective but he's no Cav.

RichN95.

goonz wrote:

Whats Sagan up to at the moment? Gone a bit quiet after the Tour of Cali?

Switzerland next week

overlord2

Greipel needs to close his mouth 10% drag coefficient there alone.

mikenetic

Reminds me of one of my fave commentary moments from recent TdF's

http://youtu.be/TFkjPgccHto?t=54s

"Where is the Manx Mis..." oh, there he goes.

okgo

LeicesterLad wrote:

edhornby wrote:

I think Cav vs Kittel would be a closer match but the Manx Missile remains the man to beat

Not sure I agree with that - Kittel hasn't been the shining light he was last year whilst Greipel has won a lot.

Cav has won 14 stages this year whilst Greipel has won 10 and sits one place behind Cav on the CQ ranking.

I'm sure I read not long ago that Greipel was putting out similar if not better power date than Cavendish - it's just that Cavendish still has an acceleration advantage so it will be interesting especially if Greipel launches his sprints at the right time.

Having said that still think Cavendish will do him - he has the edge in acceleration and position.

Power data means NOTHING in this situation.

rick_chasey

Greipel is probably the only rider who, head to head, even conditions, has beaten Cav.

I rate him a lot.

okgo

I'm sure he will be thrilled to know that, Rick.

thomthom

Rick Chasey wrote:

Greipel is probably the only rider who, head to head, even conditions, has beaten Cav.

I rate him a lot.

Holm says that Greipel is the fastest man of the two. In top speed that is.

Can't do much against that 'kick'/acceleration Cav has, though.

confused@BR

If you want Mr Cavendish to remember your name, beat him in a sprint.

Until that stage of the TdF Mr Griepel was always 'that other sprinter', afterwards he became 'Andre'.

What is particularly impressive about the way Mr Cavendish constructs his sprints is the extreme economy of his efforts. He always tries to use as little energy as possible, except for the final stage when he really lets rip.

pottssteve

Just a reminder that it kicks off with a short prologue tomorrow from 18.00 CET. Lieuw Westra is out for Vacansoleil.
I hope Cav and Griepel aren't in the same hotel - it could get frosty over the Frosties.......

Cheers,
Steve

tremayne

Fantastic photo of Cav above and really shows the difference nicely. Brilliant that in this particular pic, our boy isnt even out of the saddle, whereas gorilla features is doing his best to break his bike into two pieces. Awesome strength but lacking finesse. Which sort of brings Pendleton to mind. Another sprinter (albeit track) who on physique alone, probably wouldn't get the nod.

Turfle

In a straight sprint I reckon Greipel could beat Cav 4 out of 10 times. Add in positioning, and tactical nous, and you have to fancy Cav 7 or 8 times out of 10.

graeme_s-2

tremayne wrote:

Fantastic photo of Cav above and really shows the difference nicely.

I'd like to say that I was given exclusive access to Frenchie's photograph collection and spent hours trawling for the perfect photograph. The reality is I stuck "Cavendish Greipel" into google image search and this was one of the first photos that came up. It is a perfect photograph for this discussion though!

tremayne wrote:

Brilliant that in this particular pic, our boy isnt even out of the saddle, whereas gorilla features is doing his best to break his bike into two pieces. Awesome strength but lacking finesse. Which sort of brings Pendleton to mind. Another sprinter (albeit track) who on physique alone, probably wouldn't get the nod.

To my mind Pendleton at her peak was probably technically the best track sprinter I've ever seen, male or female. Chris Hoy could be technically brilliant, but if he made a mistake he could brute strength his way to the line. Pendleton often didn't have that to fall back on but consistently won with outstanding tactics.