Santa Cruz Tallboy carbon or Tallboy LT carbon?

notax

I'm intending to buy one of the above but haven't been able to test ride either. Current bike are a 140mm Blur, a 150mm Orange 5 built to AM spec and a 200mm Santa Cruz Bullit freeride bike. Plan is to sell the Orange and replace with a Tall boy as my day to day trail bike for riding in the Purbecks, at trail centres and Alpine XC trips etc... I tried a 100mm Scott Spark 29er and had my first double pinch flat in about 15 years, but I don't know whether a 100mm Tallboy would be more forgiving... As I'm used to hauling around the Orange should I just go for the LTC with its 135mm travel?

Has anyone ridden both?

Another pricier option is to sell the O5 and the Bullit and get a 100mm Tallboy and a Bronson for the bigger stuff...

NORTHERNSHAGGY

Why not try the new Santa Cruz solo 27.5 wheels 125 mm travel?

lawman

Solo sounds perfect for what you need. Between that and the Bronson for my next bike.

notax

Thanks, never even heard of that, I'll look into it!

notax

No wonder I didn't know about it - seems it was only launched hours ago! Not even featured on SC UK website yet. Apparently frames are to be delivered imminently, but Bronson already seems to be running a couple of months behind schedule. Will discuss with LBS tomorrow, but agree it could be a good option for me. I think this would pair very well with a Bronson but still wonder whether a 135mm Tallboy would do the job of both bikes? 125mm is quite a bit less than I'm used to and the view of the LBS is that 135mm on a 29er would tackle the rough stuff as well as my other 140/150mm bikes. What do you think?

lawman

Personally I'm leaning towards the Bronson, before the Solo was announced it was a Bronson all day long. With the same kit fitted bar forks, the Bronson works out a pound heavier. I'd dare say a Bronson would negate the need for all your other bikes, other than the bullit they seem to similar to justify IMO. I can keep up with the xc boys on my Mojo HD and smoke them on the downs, no need for much more or less tbh. Pack the lot for one bike for all occasions IMO. Will probably end up flogging the HD and the 456 and getting a Bronson after I graduate next summer.

notax

Ironically the Bronson is where I started, but having been on a ride with my LBS I was amazed at how much lighter everyone else's bikes were that my admittedly all mountain spec O5, quite a few were on 29ers too. Apart from the limited 100mm travel on the Scott Spark 29er I could see much wrong with it on a test ride and was even confident enough to get air borne on it by the end of the ride (ending in double pinch flat!) Even on twisty singletrack where I thought a 29er would be a handful it seemed to just dig in and go. This started me down the Tallboy route (although I much prefer the look of the Bronson!) Getting used to just one bike would probably be sensible, although I'd probably keep the Blur as a spare... So probably comes down to Tallboy LTC or Bronson.

Just looking at the weights of the bikes I can't believe that swapping from XT to XTR (both 2 x 10) can save 2.5lbs on the Bronson :shock:, I'd ideally want the bike to weigh around 26 lbs and if the weight saving of XTR is true that could be the way to go - especially if I sell the O5 and the Bullit. Weights and spec here:

http://www.santacruzbikes.co.uk/BronsonCarbon/#builder

Interestingly the weight quoted for the Tall Boy LTC varies only by 0.4 lbs between XT and XTR spec:

http://www.santacruzbikes.co.uk/tallboy-ltc/#builder

More believable, but I wonder how much the Bronson actually weighs..?

lawman

Mtbr forums have a Santa Cruz specific section which is very good for info. The Bronson is always going to be lighter than a Tallboy LTc due to the smaller wheels, tyres and forks. Xtr isn't that light, most of te difference is in the cranks and cassette over xt. Anything is going to b lighter than a 5, a small moon would weigh less for that matter. Either way you'll end up with a very good bike, best to try both, be patient and see which you prefer. Just go for the best wheels you can afford, doesn't have to mean carbon, but definitely some top end hubs and spokes on Stans rims would be my choice.

notax

Thanks, I agree that logically the LTC should be heavier - but it doesn't seem to be according to SC's own stats. Looking at an independent review I think the Bronson with XTR and standard WTB wheels would be around 27 lbs. Having said that, I've just found a review for the LTC which says in the spec tested it weighs 29 lbs whereas SC claim it weighs only 25.9 lbs - a MASSIVE difference! Seems you are correct in that spec for spec Bronson is lighter, strange the SC website is so far out...

http://www.vitalmtb.com/product/guide/B ... -LTC,11761

lawman

Santa Cruz weights are without pedals and stock kit, afaik the weights are also for cross mark tyres rather than Ardents too, so I wouldn't necessarily believe the claims manufacturers claim. I saw somewhere a large Bronson frame in tennis yellow was a shade under 5.9lbs, and the painted finish could add upto a third of a pound over the matte carbon frame. I've worked out with similar kit to my HD a Bronson would work out about the same, as the frame difference is about the same as the burlier fox 34's would make. So for a 1x10 xt build you'd be around 27lbs, so with 2x10 xtr 27lbs sounds about right. The standard wheels are supposed to be quite heavy though, circa 1900g. Their own builds are poor value too, you can get a better build for less if you shop around, especially if you use places like bike-discount.de.

notax

Thanks, I am leaning back towards the Bronson now! Have also been thinking of buying parts separately - I worked out I could save about £1k on the build cost. I was hoping to use SLR Crossmax wheels but their 650b model isn't out yet. I do like a bit of bling but Enve wheels seem a bit OTT even to me! I'm tempted to buy a carbon frame and have it painted the same colour as Miss Notax's O5, shame SC don't offer colour choice how they used to. Likely spec:

XT 2 x 10 (may be with some XTR bits - not sure which offer the best value to upgrade)
XT brakes - always been a fan of Formula but XT have recently blown me away on test bikes
Fox forks as SC use
Reverb
Wide carbon bars and short stem
Wheels tbc - but ideally light, strong and with a bit of bling up to about £800 for the pair

Any thoughts?

lawman

Enve wheels are stupidly nice, but you can get similar quality non-carbon for a lot less. The build I'd probably go for would be 1x11 X0 when its finally released, xt or xtr brakes, Fox 34's, possibly the new Thompson dropper over a reverb, Easton havoc bars and 55mm haven stem. Bling wheels don't get much blinger than industry nine IMO. Just riding along could build you up some of the latest torch hubs on arch ex rims for about £800 and would be under 1600g easily. Could go for tune hubs and cx-rays on the same rims for even lighter but equally bling for a little less, saw sets on a German site for about £600 and they were under 1500g a pair for 26". I'm a very firm believer that one bike can and should do it all, the Bronson on paper atleast seems to be just that and eradicates a few of the small criticisms I have about my Mojo.

notax

Thanks for your help - Bronson frame just ordered I've gone for the yellow option and am waiting to see how close my LBS can get to my internet prices for building the bike. Cant seem to find the Fox forks at less than £900. I've had a look at the Industry Nine wheels - nice! Bit concerned that the Torch Trail 24 might not be strong enough - esp if the Bronson replaced my Bullit so would be used for occasional Megavalanche and Alp riding. Having said that I'm only 70kg so well within the 91kg limit. Couldn't find any pics of wheels with the CX Ray spokes...

Grovsie29

When are the new pikes out, they'd go well with a Bronson.

bike will be wicked.

notax

No idea, but I'm happy to go with the Kashima Fox forks - always found Fox to be good and reliable. Should be a great bike - wheels are my current head ache as on the other thread...

Hypnoticjam

Notax wrote:

No idea, but I'm happy to go with the Kashima Fox forks - always found Fox to be good and reliable. Should be a great bike - wheels are my current head ache as on the other thread...

Get round ones.