Primary position while turning right out of a side street?

kingofthetailwind

I was turning right here this morning, part of my normal commute:

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=mersey+ ... 23,,0,17.1

I had filtered on the right past about 15 cars, rejoined traffic three cars back from the junction, and took primary position to wait for my turn to turn right which can be tricky on this road. However when I reach the junction I move from primary position over to the right. This allows cars turning left to move up the inside. But this morning a girl in a MINI moved up very close on my left, then indicated right and moved off as I was starting to pull away, forcing me to stop and walk the bike backwards to wait for another gap.

It was clear from my position that I was turning right. I presume she was p*ssed off that I had (safely) filtered past her. I passed her again round the corner - using her phone as she waited at a roundabout.

So my question is do you keep primiary position in situations like these? It's happened a few times on diferent roads. A biker pulled up beside me one morning, told me I should go and use the zebra crossing, and then stalled as he made his right turn.

Stevie_gee

Yes - the holy grail of using the roads is to put yourself in such a position that other road users can do whatever they like and it doesnt affect you (obviously within reason).

Command your road space.

Cupras

I go primary on a main road when it goes narrow as people don't realise that bikes do need room and will put cyclists in bad situations without thinking.

bails87

Yep, you were in the right there. There will always be people who object, like the Mini driver, but you saw it coming and allowed for her stupidity.

t4tomo

yes, where only 1 lane, hold primary.

if there is 2 lanes and the RH land is right turn only, then be courteous and use the left edge of that. cars can then turn right outside you, but it won't effect you.

supersonic

I wouldn't have filtered - no saying you can get back in line, and can end up trapped on the outside putting yourself in the same position as you found anyway.

Runtothehills

supersonic wrote:

I wouldn't have filtered - no saying you can get back in line, and can end up trapped on the outside putting yourself in the same position as you found anyway.

If there were just 2 or 3 cars at the junction I'd agree but according to the first post there were 18 - you'd have to be really unlucky for there not to be somewhere to pull into to get in line and with that many cars you can be waiting a very long time.

Now if the traffic was moving off (however slowly) I'd say get immediately into line but if it's stationary you'll be fine.

supersonic

I'd rather be safe than risk my luck ;-). I would wait in primary, in what is described as a 'tricky turn'.

But each to their own.

ToeKnee

I am sure being in primary is correct but is it necessary? I would have, and do, filter to near the front of the queue (2-4 cars back) and then cut into the queue staying to the left of the clearly turning right cars. That way we can both get through the turn without causing undue stress on the poor car drivers.

supersonic

If you can cut in - what if you can't, when busy is often bumper to bumper. Or such a small gap you have to get off and push the bike through, not what you want to be doing ideally. Or if the traffic starts moving, you can get stuck on the outside.

kingofthetailwind

Filtering wasn't the issue here. I filtered safely, and then got back into primary position three cars back from the junction. The issue was whether I stay in primary once at the junction, blocking cars wanting to turn left, or move to the right side of the lane allowing cars to turn left but inviting idiots to move along side me and turn right across me.

Had another issue today, with a Royal Mail armoured van driver beeping and gesticulating furiously for me to move into a bike lane. Problem is it's a two way bike lane on the opposite side of the road and it only runs for half a mile. I guess he wanted me to stop, cross four lanes of traffic, use the bike lane for half a mile and then cross another four lanes!

supersonic

You have every right to be there and to stay safe. You are not blocking them, is just normal flow of traffic. Stay in primary.

LonesomeWanderer

Always primary - cars turning right into a junction often cut across the center line (around here anyway) so hugging the center line isn't a good option...

Initialised

When turning right take primary, when the road is too narrow for a car to pass you safely take primary, when going over a round about, zebra crossing, traffic lights, blind corner take primary. The more motorists see cyclists in primary the more they'll get used to it and stop thinking of it as cyclist intentionally blocking them. Primary is also an excellent position in which to draft as traffic speed picks up.

When traffic is queuing or moving slower than you filtering is fine so long as it's safe (wide lanes) just pick the best side according to the situation.

What the mini did is a breach of at least three rules on over taking.