OT Parking Fine

mick_cornick

Just got a fine for being over the 2 hour limit at the local supermarket. Having looked on the web I'm thinking of ignoring it as it has no legal enforcement, private contractor invoicing me for £50 (they can't fine only courts can do that).
Has anyone here ever done this or is the advice to pay up and just be more careful?

Kieran_Burns

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showforum=60

Is where you will get all your answers... basically ignore them.

Actually here is the FAQ: http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?aut ... icle&id=56

kelsen

They can pursue it through the court on the basis that you entered into a contract with them when you parked there, assuming the conditions were stated clearly around the car park.

You have a few options:

1) Ignore the fine and hope that the parking contractor drops it because it's too much hassle taking you to court. The onus is on them to prove that you were driving and that you willingly entered into the parking contract with them.

2) Appeal the fine using one or more of the following arguments:
- the conditions for parking were not stated clearly around the car park
- you went over the 2 hour limit for legitimate reasons, for example, supermarket was extremely busy, 2hr+ is not an unreasonable length of time to be parked there as a genuine supermarket customer, you left the car park and returned (this one will not work if they use a ANPR system)
- the fine amount is unreasonable when compared to the cost of parking for 2hrs+ in the surrounding area. Offer to pay the equivalent amount if you were to pay for 2+ hours of on-street parking
- the fine is not proportional to the cost incurred by the supermarket/contractor by you exceeding the 2 hours

3) Pay the fine and let it be a lesson learned. I would be inclined to explore (1) and (2) though.

Cleat Eastwood

Don't admit you were driving - the onus is on them to prove you were in the drivers seat - if they get arsey just say someone borrowed your car and you cant remember who it was.

andy9964

I got one around Xmas time. Ignored it and never heard anything more. You might get a series of letters stating escalating costs and threats of court action, but that's about it. These rarely go to court
It isn't a "fine", only local authority and police cane issue fines, it's merely a request for money. They ask, but you don't give.
As said above, Pepipoo will give you all the info you want

Edit: As CE says, don't admit to driving. They'll probably send the "fine" requests to the registered keeper, instead of first asking who was driving like they are supposed to

The Rookie

Cleat Eastwood wrote:

Don't admit you were driving - the onus is on them to prove you were in the drivers seat - if they get arsey just say someone borrowed your car and you cant remember who it was.

That would be a really really bad idea.....lying = perjury = jail, secondly civil courts are balance or probability, if you don't say you weren't the driver you probably were.

Not a fine, an invoice.

Go to Pepipoo, the latest advice is to appeal to the parking company just so you can the appeal to POPLA (independant tribunal) where a strong appeal is very likel to succeed now.

verylonglegs

My friend's wife has had about a dozen of such notices over the last couple of years, she's ignored the lot.

First.Aspect

Yes, for god's sake don't pay it.

They aren't legally allowed to present the invoice to look like a parking fine, so you could throw that back at them. These companies tend to change one or two words, and use generally the same format, as a penalty notice.

They also have to show what damages have been suffered, and their claim has to be proportionate to the amount of that damage. For a free car park with spaces, its very hard for them to demonstrate this.

Can you agree to a set of terms and conditions on a sign at an entrace which you have to drive past? Are you expected to stop and read the T&Cs? Is it safe to stop and read them? Is it safe to walk back and read them? Was there one between the car park and the shop?

Finally, there's a question of the grounds upon which they obtained your personal details from the DVLA.

The internet is awash with helpful websites dedicated to avoiding parking invoices.

tailwindhome

Hang on.

You entered into contract with the supermarket when you parked in their car park. You knew that going over your two hours of free parking meant that you would be liable for a charge.

You went over your 2 hour allowance, now you don't want to pay.

You Sir are a free loader of the very worst kind.

mick_cornick

I also don't pay road tax!

unixnerd

Is where you will get all your answers... basically ignore them.

I got one at a hotel where I was attending a wedding. Ignored it and after a few letters it went away.

Big_Paul

TailWindHome wrote:

Hang on.

You entered into contract with the supermarket when you parked in their car park. You knew that going over your two hours of free parking meant that you would be liable for a charge.

You went over your 2 hour allowance, now you don't want to pay.

You Sir are a free loader of the very worst kind.

In fairness the parking companies may comply with the letter of the law, not the spirit.

In one of the local supermarket car parks, the sign is right at the entrance barrier in a ridiculously small font that you have to physically get out of the car to read if you have normal vision, in another, the sign is 8 feet up a pole, once again in minuscule font, in another the signs are on very remote lamp poles, none at all within a full 100 metres of the entrance. It's hard to enter into a contract if you can't read the bloody thing.

The Rookie

TailWindHome wrote:

Hang on.

You entered into contract with the supermarket when you parked in their car park. You knew that going over your two hours of free parking meant that you would be liable for a charge.

You went over your 2 hour allowance, now you don't want to pay.

You Sir are a free loader of the very worst kind.

So penalties are allowed in contracts are they (that cost for that length parking clearly being a penalty) - oh dear, no they aren't, as established in 'Dunlop' in the 19th century......

Even if he entered into a contract with the supermarket it is not them after money......

wandsworth

First Aspect wrote:

Finally, there's a question of the grounds upon which they obtained your personal details from the DVLA.

I remember there was some fuss a couple of years ago about MacDonalds doing this with parking. All kinds of issues with it but this is the bit that really got me - how do they get your data from DVLA? I think that's scandalous.

bompington

Pretty much everyone wrote:

Just cheat, lie and steal your way out of it

tailwindhome

Maybe the OP could clarify wether or not he knew of the 2 hour limit/£50 charge before parking.

The Beginner wrote:

TailWindHome wrote:

Hang on.

You entered into contract with the supermarket when you parked in their car park. You knew that going over your two hours of free parking meant that you would be liable for a charge.

You went over your 2 hour allowance, now you don't want to pay.

You Sir are a free loader of the very worst kind.

So penalties are allowed in contracts are they (that cost for that length parking clearly being a penalty) - oh dear, no they aren't, as established in 'Dunlop' in the 19th century......

Even if he entered into a contract with the supermarket it is not them after money......

My broadband contract with BT includes 40GB free data. If I go over the 40GB in a calendar month I pay £5 for every extra 10GB or part thereof. Similar conditions apply to my mobile phone.

Can you explain why the car park contract is different.

These charges exist to prevent freeloaders using the car park as a free carpark rather than pay charges elsewhere thereby taking up spaces for genuine supermarket customers.

2 hrs seems plenty of time to do a supermarket shop.

tailwindhome

Do the 'disabled' spaces in a private car park have any meaning in law?

The Rookie

Yes and no.....
A store or establishment has to make a reasonable accomodation under the equalities act, that includes disbabled bays, however they have no more legal capability to protect them than they do for any other of their parking 'regulations' despite the equalities act placing an onus on them to make sure they are available (the law really is, frequantly, an ass!).

DVLA are required by law to make a registered keepers details to anyone with reasonable cause to require them, that includes parking invoices or, as I have done, a minor hit and run.

First.Aspect

TailWindHome wrote:

Maybe the OP could clarify wether or not he knew of the 2 hour limit/£50 charge before parking.


My broadband contract with BT includes 40GB free data. If I go over the 40GB in a calendar month I pay £5 for every extra 10GB or part thereof. Similar conditions apply to my mobile phone.

Can you explain why the car park contract is different.

These charges exist to prevent freeloaders using the car park as a free carpark rather than pay charges elsewhere thereby taking up spaces for genuine supermarket customers.

2 hrs seems plenty of time to do a supermarket shop.

You pay for your 40gig of free data, unless BT give you a phone line for free as well? If you hog all the bandwidth downloading terabytes of dwarf porn, BT sells fewer contracts. I know you are being wilfully numpty.

Hard to imagine what loss a supermarket has incurred if a customer uses a customer parking space.

tailwindhome

First Aspect wrote:

TailWindHome wrote:

Maybe the OP could clarify wether or not he knew of the 2 hour limit/£50 charge before parking.


My broadband contract with BT includes 40GB free data. If I go over the 40GB in a calendar month I pay £5 for every extra 10GB or part thereof. Similar conditions apply to my mobile phone.

Can you explain why the car park contract is different.

These charges exist to prevent freeloaders using the car park as a free carpark rather than pay charges elsewhere thereby taking up spaces for genuine supermarket customers.

2 hrs seems plenty of time to do a supermarket shop.

You pay for your 40gig of free data, unless BT give you a phone line for free as well? If you hog all the bandwidth downloading terabytes of dwarf porn, BT sells fewer contracts. I know you are being wilfully numpty.

Hard to imagine what loss a supermarket has incurred if a customer uses a customer parking space.

*sigh*

You're more argumentative than Always Tyred ever was. He stubbornly refused to get the point too.

Yes. Of course I understand that the 40GB of data is included in my contract price. The 'point' was the extra charge for going over the limit agreed in advance.

Similarly the parking space isn't free. All of the supermarket's customers contribute to the cost of that space (security, rates/council tax, rent, maintenance and the original cost) through the price they pay for their shopping. The customer has 2 hours of 'free' time and if he goes over then he gets charged.

The loss that the supermarket incur is the potential lost gross margin on items they could have sold only their car park is filled with freeloaders. Not that different to BT really.

Most people realise that there's going to be a charge so don't leave their car there for extended periods of time.

Its not really that complicated.

Numpty.

First.Aspect

You are just annoyed because you can only download battle of the gimps 1, 2 and 3 in any given calendar month.

The difference is that you have a £40 contract and the "fine" is 12.5%. These parking charges are somewhere between infinity % and several thousand % of the contract. The proportionality issue is the main reason, as I understand it, that these charges are generally held to be unreasonable. They feel unreasonable because they are.

Happy now?

mick_cornick

This seems to have got people a bit hot under the collar! To clarify I parked at 16:20 and thought that the two hour restriction ceases at 18:00, as it does in all other car parks in the town but apparently this is not the case.
As for free loading my car was left in a car park with 3/4 of it's spaces empty, is this £50 worth of antisocial behaviour?

bails87

Mick Cornick wrote:

This seems to have got people a bit hot under the collar! To clarify I parked at 16:20 and thought that the two hour restriction ceases at 18:00, as it does in all other car parks in the town but apparently this is not the case.
As for free loading my car was left in a car park with 3/4 of it's spaces empty, is this £50 worth of antisocial behaviour?

You're literally worse than Hitler!

mick_cornick

:twisted:

tailwindhome

Mick Cornick wrote:

This seems to have got people a bit hot under the collar! To clarify I parked at 16:20 and thought that the two hour restriction ceases at 18:00, as it does in all other car parks in the town but apparently this is not the case.
As for free loading my car was left in a car park with 3/4 of it's spaces empty, is this £50 worth of antisocial behaviour?

Depends. How long did you leave the car there for and how long were you in the supermarket for?

tailwindhome

First Aspect wrote:

These parking charges are somewhere between infinity % and several thousand % of the contract.

You have Always Tyred's belligerence but he would have never through mathematics around in such a clumsy way.

Maybe there is more than one cat-loving, cycle-commuting sort-of-lawyer in Edinburgh.

mpatts

Blimey, people can get a bit worked up can't they!

They are not legally enforceable. The critical bit is that you haven't paid for anything, so it's difficult to claim for damages.

Anyway, the clever bit will be in the wording, will be a lot of 'could' and 'can' rather than 'will' and 'are' in the letter.

I got one a while ago from mcdonalds. I ignored it and it went away.

First.Aspect

TailWindHome wrote:

First Aspect wrote:

These parking charges are somewhere between infinity % and several thousand % of the contract.

You have Always Tyred's belligerence but he would have never through mathematics around in such a clumsy way.

Maybe there is more than one cat-loving, cycle-commuting sort-of-lawyer in Edinburgh.

Stop stalking me. Its creepy.

I take it you agree in the end then?

tailwindhome

First Aspect wrote:

TailWindHome wrote:

First Aspect wrote:

These parking charges are somewhere between infinity % and several thousand % of the contract.

You have Always Tyred's belligerence but he would have never through mathematics around in such a clumsy way.

Maybe there is more than one cat-loving, cycle-commuting sort-of-lawyer in Edinburgh.

Stop stalking me. Its creepy.

I take it you agree in the end then?

If I agreed with you then we'd both be wrong.....

First.Aspect

TailWindHome wrote:

First Aspect wrote:

TailWindHome wrote:

First Aspect wrote:

These parking charges are somewhere between infinity % and several thousand % of the contract.

You have Always Tyred's belligerence but he would have never through mathematics around in such a clumsy way.

Maybe there is more than one cat-loving, cycle-commuting sort-of-lawyer in Edinburgh.

Stop stalking me. Its creepy.

I take it you agree in the end then?

If I agreed with you then we'd both be wrong.....

You smell.

tailwindhome

First Aspect wrote:

TailWindHome wrote:

First Aspect wrote:

TailWindHome wrote:

First Aspect wrote:

These parking charges are somewhere between infinity % and several thousand % of the contract.

You have Always Tyred's belligerence but he would have never through mathematics around in such a clumsy way.

Maybe there is more than one cat-loving, cycle-commuting sort-of-lawyer in Edinburgh.

Stop stalking me. Its creepy.

I take it you agree in the end then?

If I agreed with you then we'd both be wrong.....

You smell.

Yer Ma!