Non-specific Giro thread

Lichtblick

I've never followed the Giro before this year. I've followed the Tour de France for 9 years and the Vuelta for a couple.

Hoping that some friendly co-posters may comment on this, it now seems to me that the Tour is like this, whether they go clockwise or anti-clockwise; Prologue, couple of flat or flat-ish stages, then mountains. Then maybe a TT or a TTT, then flat or flat-ish, then mountains again. Then a TT if they didn't already do that, maybe another flat, then finish in Paris. Sometimes there's an extra mountain (Mont Ventoux for instance) but that's about it, really. flat-mountain-flat-mountain-finish.

The Giro on the other hand is nothing of the sort. Mountains and flats all mixed up, much more unpredictable, hardly any 'yea yea' stages, it seems to me, watching it this year for the first time, daily.

So why is the Tour perceived to be The BIG One, as it undoubtedly is?

Thanks

RichN95.

The Tour is the race that the World watches. It's the one that people who don't really follow cycling watch. And that is important to sponsors. And to be a really big name in the sport you tend to have to step up at the Tour at some point.

How did it come to be this way? Well that's a good question. Personally it appears to me that the Tour has always courted foreign interest and is more inclusive while the Giro has tended to be more parochial - a local race for local people. And as a result the Tour got the biggest names

Others will have other views which will have plenty of merit.

tailwindhome

Geography plays a part too, no? Theres a lot of France.

The giro seems to have included more classic style bumpy stages.

thomthom

Tour De France is usually the worst GT of the three.

It has ONE thing that Giro and Vuelta can't beat, though.. Summer holidays.

goonz

Isn't the Giro widely regarded as the toughest of the 3?

TDF has more history than both and is what draws the audiences but by no means the better race.

thomthom

goonz wrote:

Isn't the Giro widely regarded as the toughest of the 3?

Definitely. Especially when Zomegnan was in charge. Some would say he even went too far.

RichN95.

goonz wrote:

Isn't the Giro widely regarded as the toughest of the 3?

By fans, yes. By riders, no

oneof1982

A mixture of fact and opinion.....

The geography you describe (OP) of the TdF is essentially the geography of France. The TdF still is in essence, if not actuality, and Tour or circuit of the country. This, as you know doubt know, dates back to the apprentice learning his trade by touring the hexagon that is the whole country. So, whichever way you go, you get flat, mountains flat, mountains.

Both the Giro and the Vuelta, which copied the Tour, have lost that sense, if they ever had it, of a continous tour of the country. The TdF has the coverage and the world press, whereas the Giro and the Vuelta are conitually struggling to secure the financial backing they need. So they engineer the spectacular. they do this by sticking in huge, steep climbs to keep the fans happy.


The other thing that the TdF has is prime place in the calendar. It ususally invovles riding though beautiful countryside in the sunshine. The Giro, not just this year, ususally invovles rain or snow, and the Vuelta involves riding along motorways through the desert.

Finally, it is not so long ago that the Vuelta and Giro effectively competed against each other. Up until 1995 they were both held in the Spring, and whilst i don't think they overlapped, riding one precluded riding the other.

knedlicky

TailWindHome wrote:

Geography plays a part too, no? Theres a lot of France.
The giro seems to have included more classic style bumpy stages.

oneof1982 wrote:

... The TdF still is in essence... a circuit of the country....
Both the Giro and the Vuelta, which copied the Tour, have lost that sense ...

I disagree that the Giro has lost a ‘sense’ of touring the whole country, and the the Tour has retained this. Over a period of only a few years, the Giro seems to regularly cover almost every corner of Italy, whereas years go by without the Tour ever going to some parts of France.
If you ever look at French Internet cycling forums, you’ll see cycling fans in France actually complain that the Tour doesn’t include as much middle-mountain as the country actually has and they feel some areas, suitable for ‘bumpy’ stages (like the Giro incorporates), are regrettably too often omitted.

knedlicky

RichN95 wrote:

goonz wrote:

Isn't the Giro widely regarded as the toughest of the 3?

By fans, yes. By riders, no

When it’s boring or monotonous or repetitive at work, I find too it ‘harder’ compared to when there’s variety, or something interesting going, or something challenging to do.
I think that’s part the reason, some riders think the Tour's harder. After all, most riders are essentially just employees/workers, doing a job close to their hobby, and there are a lot of boring stages in the Tour.

Also, when most of the international media and many of the past winners (in their case naturally) have decided the Tour’s harder, I'd imagine it's very hard for ordinary team riders taking part in the Tour to think to disagree, even if they've had other experiences.

No_Ta_Doctor

RichN95 wrote:

goonz wrote:

Isn't the Giro widely regarded as the toughest of the 3?

By fans, yes. By riders, no

The fans look at the route, the riders look at the opposition.

RichN95.

No tA Doctor wrote:

RichN95 wrote:

goonz wrote:

Isn't the Giro widely regarded as the toughest of the 3?

By fans, yes. By riders, no

The fans look at the route, the riders look at the opposition.

The riders feel the extra speed and extra stress too. They all say how the Tour is more full-on than any other stage race, with everything turned up to eleven.

oneof1982

knedlicky wrote:

I disagree that the Giro has lost a ‘sense’ of touring the whole country, and the the Tour has retained this. Over a period of only a few years, the Giro seems to regularly cover almost every corner of Italy, whereas years go by without the Tour ever going to some parts of France.

I've had a quick look over recent routes of both the Vuelta and the Giro, and I think I probably agree with you on the Giro. My point in terms of the Tour is not that it tours the "whole" coiuntry, but that it is a circuit- which by definiton won't visit the whole country.

I've enjoyed the times when it has gone through areas like the Auvergne, but the reality is the punters want the big classic climbs of the Alps and the Pyrenees.

In tems of easy and hard routes, I think it was Sean Kelly who said there are no easy or hard routes, just easy or hard races.

rick_chasey

Being in France in July helps.

Lots of tourists around on holiday and let's face it, between end of June and the beginning it's not like France is doing much working (or the rest of Catholic Europe for that matter).

milton50

Rick Chasey wrote:

Being in France in July helps.

^ That's the first reason.

2) Generally the best riders in the world try and peak for the Tour which means in most years the Tour has the most quality of the three GT's.

3) There is more history and tradition surrounding the big stages of the Tour that it has more resonance with riders and fans alike.

I agree though that the Tour route has become too predictable. You get the impression that all that history weighing on the organisers deters them from being being bold.

dolan_driver

Rick Chasey wrote:

Being in France in July helps.

Lots of tourists around on holiday and let's face it, between end of June and the beginning it's not like France is doing much working (or the rest of Catholic Europe for that matter).

I'm not sure being Catholic dictates when during the year you take your holidays. The Vatican has, as yet, to issue any directive stating all Catholics must refrain from all work activities in July and take their holidays during that month. I think it has more to do with the fact that the weather is better during summer time, hence it's a good time to take a vacation, pretty much the thinking of most Europeans, be they Catholic or otherwise. Lying on the beach in January ain't fun!

Granted, the French seem to have a fairly generous period each year set aside for holidays!

http://www.cbsnews.com/2100-500164_162-704571.html

DD.

ddraver

Lets not forget a large dose of the tour is popular so all the cool kids pretend the Giro is so much better because no one has heard of it


Expect a large proportion of cyclng fans getting misty eyed about the Vuelta now that the BBC are covering the Giro.

If cycling does become popular in the UK I expect the viewing figures of CycloX and XCO to sky rocket as we all desperately try to stay looking cool

goonz

ddraver wrote:

Lets not forget a large dose of the tour is popular so all the cool kids pretend the Giro is so much better because no one has heard of it


Expect a large proportion of cyclng fans getting misty eyed about the Vuelta now that the BBC are covering the Giro.

If cycling does become popular in the UK I expect the viewing figures of CycloX and XCO to sky rocket as we all desperately try to stay looking cool

Im off to follow folded bikes racing...Im cool I am.

RichN95.

ddraver wrote:

Lets not forget a large dose of the tour is popular so all the cool kids pretend the Giro is so much better because no one has heard of it

Expect a large proportion of cyclng fans getting misty eyed about the Vuelta now that the BBC are covering the Giro.

If cycling does become popular in the UK I expect the viewing figures of CycloX and XCO to sky rocket as we all desperately try to stay looking cool

Anything on Eurosport is automatically too mainstream (Trentino - what a sell out). Us cool kids are all into Tro Bro Leon, Tropicale Amissa Bongo and Vuelta a Colombia these days.

Pross

RichN95 wrote:

ddraver wrote:

Lets not forget a large dose of the tour is popular so all the cool kids pretend the Giro is so much better because no one has heard of it

Expect a large proportion of cyclng fans getting misty eyed about the Vuelta now that the BBC are covering the Giro.

If cycling does become popular in the UK I expect the viewing figures of CycloX and XCO to sky rocket as we all desperately try to stay looking cool

Anything on Eurosport is automatically too mainstream (Trentino - what a sell out). Us cool kids are all into Tro Bro Leon, Tropicale Amissa Bongo and Vuelta a Colombia these days.

Tro Bro Leon was on ES this year. Best off watching Llandow crits, that'll never make it on to TV.

RichN95.

Pross wrote:

Tro Bro Leon was on ES this year. Best off watching Llandow crits, that'll never make it on to TV.

What about that one a few weeks ago where they go up the Tumble as many times as possible? That was 'won' by one of my hockey club.

inkyfingers

If more than 3 people know about a race it instantly become uncool.

Richmond Racer

Just got back from Italy, following the race from St 14 onwards

Great time had by all. Access to the riders and teams is a hundred times better than the Tour. Between us all, and with a few of my mates knowing the likes of Alex Dowsett and Rory Sutherland, good chats had with lots of riders and support staff. Dowsett said that he'd never ridden races like it with the Italians descending like kamikaze pilots (his phrase). Photos with peeps like Cuddles, Adam Blythe and Steve Cummings on the surprise rest day last Friday, made a couple of my mates happy.

For me one of my favourite days was the uphill TT. Got some great shots and very decent shots of Uran, Cav, Cuddles and Nibz. As I was walking up before the start, a guy was hurtling towards me on a bike and as he draw near I saw it was Cipo. He was dressed exactly as you'd expect - tight black leather jacket, jeans and looking like he'd just finished an all-nighter (which he probably had). The aftershave lingered in the air for some considerable time...The name 'Cipollini' went around the tifosi on the hillside like wildfire as everyone rushed to watch him descend down the hill...it was a bit of a moment...

Best bragging rights by far went to two of my group who were riding up the course in the morning, and saw Nibz join the course from their left, going up on his recce ride with a team mate or two. My mates glued themselves to his wheel, and managed to stay with him all the way up. Nibz was cool with it, and at about 1km to go, dropped back to have a chat with them. They were still buzzing from that 24 hours later.

The start in Valloire was brilliant fun. Again, access to riders and so on, so much easier than the Tour, and the guys also more relaxed.

The tifosi were great, lots of cheers and shouts for all the riders, though naturally the Italian riders got the biggest cheers.

Police were stopping people from riding all the way to the revised finish on the Galibier, which was a bit of a bugger, but otherwise the Carabinieri were a LOT more easy-going that than the French, and we had no problems with ridiculously early road closures or anything.

Lastly, Brescia on Sunday was a blast, absolute party atmosphere.

LutherB

Great stuff RR! Was gonna ask you about the trip details but wasn't sure where to post it. When can we see pics? Something about Cipo that makes me wanna punch his lights out but glad seeing him didn't spoil your day

Richmond Racer

LutherB wrote:

Great stuff RR! Was gonna ask you about the trip details but wasn't sure where to post it. When can we see pics? Something about Cipo that makes me wanna punch his lights out but glad seeing him didn't spoil your day

What's the best size for the pics to post them? I've struggled with trying to do it in the past.

Oh...and I forgot to mention the rather bizarre encounter with a naked Rafal Majka in a hotel corridor one evening - the woman in question in our group was still having hot flushes two days later

Most of you will be relieved that there are no photos from this incident...

LutherB

Looking at other pics i think the max size is 640 width, so around 550 width should work fine

above_the_cows

RR, I'm sure I can speak for all on here when we say we are not at all jealous. No not at all. At least you didn't have great weather all the time

Right, talking of weather I'm skipping off work early to make the most of this sunshine and relative warmth...