Wiggle won't ship chainset to France

js14

I wanted to buy a Miche Young chainset for my son's bike and Wiggle is selling one at a nice price. However when I reached the checkout page, I discovered that Wiggle won't ship this item to France. I queried this with their customer service and they confirmed the restriction but they won't explain why. Now I can understand shipping restrictions on fragile items like helmets or things likes gels which would cause problems with airport security scans but a chainset? In any case, Wiggle ship other chainset brands to France. I can't see any logical explanation for the problem with Miche products unless it is to avoid competing with the French distributor's higher prices.

nicklouse

it will be Miche who will not allow it. Same as Focus would not let them Sell into Europe before they lost the distributorship.

mfin

Just get a friend in the UK to buy it for you and ship it over if it still works out cheaper than getting it in France surely?

bernithebiker

This is French protectionism at it's finest.

Very slow to embrace the internet, the French bike shops are seeing their business eroded by UK based internet bike shops.

They are determined to keep margins high in the shops.

Jay Morgan

Certainly sounds like Miche is controlling their distribution; have you tried JE James Cycles or another retailer who stocks the chainset, just by way of confirmation?

Jay Morgan

bernithebiker wrote:

This is French protectionism at it's finest.

Very slow to embrace the internet, the French bike shops are seeing their business eroded by UK based internet bike shops.

They are determined to keep margins high in the shops.

Living in Paris, I'd second every word of that.

Grill

bernithebiker wrote:

This is French protectionism at it's finest.

Very slow to embrace the internet, the French bike shops are seeing their business eroded by UK based internet bike shops.

They are determined to keep margins high in the shops.

This is incorrect. Having worked many years in sports retail in France I can tell you the margins are no better than here, and some are quite a bit worse based upon distributors and volume. If one rep has Benelux as a region he would not be able to sell in France and vice-versa.

Also, it's common practice for companies to limit who can resell their products where, especially since many distributors as well as reps are independent contractors. Companies can also set price/discount restrictions on their product which is why some never go on sale (as to not devalue the brand).

bernithebiker

OnYourRight wrote:

How can it be French protectionism if a UK shop won’t sell you an Italian product?

There’s plenty of protectionism in France, of course – just as there is in the UK – but you can’t blame this one on the perfidious French.

I've seen this many times before; the French business, whether it's for Ipads, tractors, or chainsets, don't like to see any foreign competition, so they ban other countries from selling into theirs.

I'm fairly sure this is illegal and against EU rules, but it goes on all the time.

Margins at Wiggle, etc. are lower than in the French shops, but obviously they sell a whole lot more.....

bernithebiker

OnYourRight wrote:

Humour me: how can the French prevent a UK company from selling an Italian chainset to a Frenchman? In fact, how would they even become aware of said transaction?

Because the UK distributor has presumably been told that he can only sell in the UK. That if he has an enquiry or an order from France, he has to refuse it.

He only has the right to sell in the UK.

Therefore, the guy in France, HAS to go through a French shop / dealer. (and pay more!)

I can't say for sure that's what's going on here, but I'm certainly encountered this type of thing many times before.

Stihl power tools is a good example - I cannot buy them from the UK for France.

Bar Shaker

A company can only claim a vertical sales restraint, if they are the manufacturer. In short, I can decide who I sell to, but those companies that sell my products on cannot restrict who they sell to.

There have been several high profile fines for regional price protection. Volkswagen was by far the largest I can remember, when they were fined €90m for regional pricing.

As merely a distributor, it is illegal under EU for Wiggle to refuse to sell to a resident of another EU country, if they supply other components to customers in that same country. Wiggle are treading a dangerous path.

bernithebiker

OnYourRight wrote:

But it’s not the French who’ve imposed that restraint. It’s the manufacturer, Miche in this case (an Italian company, not that it matters). Wiggle might be partially to blame for rolling over.

Yes, but most likely it's the French shops that stock Miche that have complained to head office to say, 'It's not fair, our customers are buying Miche from the UK and not from us! Boo hoo! Do something!'

Again, can't be sure in this case, but I've definitely seen that scenario before.

Miche would like as many sales as possible, but they have to keep their distributors happy.

bernithebiker

Another example; Stihl have blocked all internet sales of their equipment. An excellent way of protecting each market and margins.

How do they get away with it? Safety. They say that you have to pick up the tool in person, because you need to be told how to use it. For your own safety of course.....

Fine, maybe for a chainsaw, but a leaf blower? Please.......

Ben6899

mfin wrote:

Just get a friend in the UK to buy it for you and ship it over if it still works out cheaper than getting it in France surely?

This. And if you don't have any real mates, I'm sure someone here will help out for a small fee.

sandyballs

[/quote]As merely a distributor, it is illegal under EU for Wiggle to refuse to sell to a resident of another EU country, if they supply other components to customers in that same country. Wiggle are treading a dangerous path.[/quote]

As a Boardman rider you should know that Wiggle stock and sell Boardman to Germany but it cannot sell within the UK It is perfectly legal for manufacturers to enter into distribution restrictions with companies as long as there is no illegal price inflation or collusion to fix prices.

jibberjim

OnYourRight wrote:

Despite the above, my feeling is that Wiggle might not be allowed to block online sales to EU customers if those customers come to Wiggle, even if Wiggle’s agreement with Miche might prevent them from advertising directly to those customers. JS14 might want to kick up a fuss with Wiggle about that. At the very least I’d work my way up the customer-service chain until I got a clear answer as to why the sale was blocked. They might be cagey about giving out that info because it’s not flattering or entirely above board.

I do wonder too how it would stack up against EU Discrimination law if specifically challenged, since refusing to supply purely based on nationality (although obviously it's actually location, but it would be hard to argue that it's not a proxy for nationality.)

Who would have the money to figt it though...

js14

I ruled out shipping the order to an address in England and forwarding it on because it is surprisingly expensive for a private individual to send a parcel from the UK to France these days. Wiggle is selling the Miche chainset for £45 compared to £55 or £60 elsewhere in the UK so even if another bike shop would ship to France, the total is more than what I would like to pay.

Instead, I went for the Stronglight Impact Kid chainset, which is available in Europe for 45 €, or about £38. Miche has lost out because I bought a competitor's product. Wiggle missed not only on the sale of the chainset but also on the new Ultegra 12-30 teeth 'granny' cassette, new Ultegra rear derailleur and Ultegra chain that I placed in the same order, to spread the shipping costs.

Mind you, I still had to buy a Miche 16-26 cassette, as they seem to be the only manufacturer that makes cassettes with a 16 tooth smallest sprocket as standard. (You need one to comply with French youth racing regulations which limit the gearing to 5.6 m for U-12's - I just hope there is enough clearance for it on the Triban 3 frame :?: )

Bar Shaker

Sandyballs wrote:

bar shaker wrote:

As merely a distributor, it is illegal under EU for Wiggle to refuse to sell to a resident of another EU country, if they supply other components to customers in that same country. Wiggle are treading a dangerous path.

As a Boardman rider you should know that Wiggle stock and sell Boardman to Germany but it cannot sell within the UK It is perfectly legal for manufacturers to enter into distribution restrictions with companies as long as there is no illegal price inflation or collusion to fix prices.

I understand you can buy them from Wiggle if you live anywhere except the UK.

With a dealer network and the possibility of a small haggle, you would be mad to pay full RRP from an internet retailer, as a UK customer.

bikedibley.com

JS14 wrote:

I wanted to buy a Miche Young chainset for my son's bike and Wiggle is selling one at a nice price. However when I reached the checkout page, I discovered that Wiggle won't ship this item to France. I queried this with their customer service and they confirmed the restriction but they won't explain why. Now I can understand shipping restrictions on fragile items like helmets or things likes gels which would cause problems with airport security scans but a chainset? In any case, Wiggle ship other chainset brands to France. I can't see any logical explanation for the problem with Miche products unless it is to avoid competing with the French distributor's higher prices.

Hello.
In some cases agreements are made with brands to only make available brands in certain territories. Of course it's Wiggle's intention to make products available to as many territories as possible, but in some instance where fragile distribution networks exist, agreements may be made to restrict sale to certain territories. This restriction will only be in terms of advertising and promotion, however Wiggle will always abide by EU law and make available to a customer upon request, where EU law requires.

In this instance, a human error occurred during set up and this specific product was set with restriction. There is no restriction on Miche product whatsoever and this product has now been fixed to be made available everywhere. I'm very sorry JS14 was advised on the contrary.