is my frame geometry wrong for me?

step83

My friends been moaning about this for a while so ive decided to ask some experts.
He keep saying the geometry of my frame is rubbish for me. I 'm not sure if he is right or just wants me to spend some money.

Frame in question is a 2004 Carrera Kraken 18"

Photo of the frame so you can get an idea of the shape etc



Im 5ft 10in inside leg is 32in. not sure if you need any other details or not, ill admit im not confident on the bike and it does feel a bit unweildy at speeds but I thought it was just me being a bad rider.

Question is do you think he is right or just winding me up?

The Rookie

I'm 5'9" and ride a 16" Kraken, same frame later colour scheme (mines a 2006) prior to painting (see link in my sig).

I can't see a reason the geo would be wrong, the Kraken is quite an XC orientated machinne though, so you may want to look at a shorter stem and wider bars than the original (I run 80mm and 640mm, nothing drastic) and it aids stability no end when the front is pointing down.

Also make sure you have preloaded the forks properly, otherwise the front dips a lot under load (are you on the originals?) which steepens the head angle even more, if you are 'heavier' then reduce the sag to help hold the front end up.

Have you posted in the Carrera HT thread? (see link in my sig)

cooldad

He's a knob.

cooldad

Or a psychic genius. You decide.

islandman

If thats set up as you ride it the seat looks way too low. Don't worry about geometry bull.

davey45

Hi, If you mate is a fairly experienced rider I'd say that there could be some mileage in what he's suggesting. It's hard to comment definitively without seeing you ride but the set up in the photo does suggest you could ride with a smaller frame (there's not much seat post poking out!). If the frame's a bit to big your reach could be wrong. I'm also 5'10" and ride medium size frames (bare in mind everybody's different!) but I cannot ride a large as I don't feel as in control as I should be!
The actual bike is also something to consider - I've ridden pretty much the full spectrum when it comes to specced bikes, all medium size frames but with different frame geometries and quality of components. The lower end stuff doesn't inspire as much confidence which can have an adverse effect on your riding! The varying angles of forks and stem etc. do make a difference to feel and confidence, but you won't know what really suits you until you've tried it!
If you're in a position to buy another bike I would suggest going to a trail centre or similar where you can test ride a few bikes, ride a large and a medium first and then go from there, 'tweaking' a few things until you find a bike that you're comfortable and confident on.

thelonegroover

I'm similar size to you and anything from 16" to 18" suits OK.
However, as previously stated, your saddle looks too low. The effective top tube length (reach) is the most important. Put your saddle at the correct height, fit shorter stem and wider bars, it should feel like a different bike.

nicklouse

Looking at a bike by its self means nothing.

It is a bike.

A bike with a person on it can show lots of things.

Presuming that the bike has been set up optimally for the rider I would say the frame is too big.

But who knows as we can not see how it fits.

The Rookie

The saddle does look far to low, I'm 5'9" and short in the leg and have about 3 times as much seatpost showing (16" Kraken frame) - photo in link in sig.

step83

Ill try an get a photo of me on the bike, easier that it sounds living alone!

Ive set the saddle i think to the correct height ill try going higher i think i did try it before and it felt like i was trying to get on a penny farthing.
Reach wise was too long but i sorted that with a shorter stem and a slighlty wider bar 70mm stem and 660mm bar) which helped no end for low speed control. Forks ive upgraded to Rockshox Tora 318s im keeping the travel at 100mm which is the frames limit and slowed the rebound as theres no lockout control seems to keep quite stiff on the uphill climbs and enough response on the flat and downhill sections.

The person advising this has been riding a number of years so im inclided to listen but for something as big as a frame change you can understand im a little apprehensive.
Re the trail centres im not sure of any local that offer cycle hire but my LBS offer test rides on bikes so that may be a good start?

nicklouse

Step83 wrote:

Ive set the saddle i think to the correct height ill try going higher i think i did try it before

Read this
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/saddles.html#height

The Rookie

The Carrera frames are near enough (literaly within 2-3mm) the same Geo as the same size rockhopper (medium to medium) despite the different length seat tubes, if the geo is wrong you'll struggle to find one much different.

For saddle height, rule of thumb (no more) as a starting point is foot on pedal at bottom of stroke and the knee just a fraction bent (put your heel on the pedal so you don't flex your ankle), on my MTB I'll then drop the saddle a smidgen from that depending on terrain, trail centres I'll drop by about 1.5" to keep it out the way more, for XC only about 0.5-1" max.

Kowalski675

The Beginner wrote:

I can't see a reason the geo would be wrong, the Kraken is quite an XC orientated machinne though, so you may want to look at a shorter stem and wider bars than the original (I run 80mm and 640mm, nothing drastic) and it aids stability no end when the front is pointing down.

Did the earlier Krakens have narrower bars? 640mm is narrower than the original bars that were on my 2009, those were 660mm (I have 680mm on now).

I'm 5' 10" with 34" inside leg, my Kraken's a 20" frame. Sounds like your mate's just a bit of a know it all...

The Rookie

Earlier krakens were a 580mm bar, that's the first iteration of the frame (2005?)....

step83

As requested heres a shot after i raised the saddle a good three inches im thinking this is closer to correct after a quick peddle up the hill i could get the power down further into the stroke.

My odd expression is me trying to tell my elderly neighbor how to use a camera phone as in tap the screen, hence the walking stick as well. Crap clothing is purely from being at the gym.

supersonic

If it feels right then it is right.

First Kraken was 2001 ;-)

cooldad

Looks ok.

raldat

Step83 wrote:

As requested heres a shot after i raised the saddle a good three inches im thinking this is closer to correct after a quick peddle up the hill i could get the power down further into the stroke.

My odd expression is me trying to tell my elderly neighbor how to use a camera phone as in tap the screen, hence the walking stick as well. Crap clothing is purely from being at the gym.

When setting seat height best to have the ball of your foot on the peddle rather then the heel, but other than that looks ok. Original pics had a low seat. If that was the right seat height it would suggest you needed a smaller frame. Seeing you on the bike makes me think the frame is ok. There is a lot of conjecture about seat height but an accepted rule of thumb is to place the ball of our foot on the peddle then have your knee slightly bent. If not already there set it to that then give it some time to get used to it. Then make some decisions. But it looks ok.

The Rookie

That looks good, perhaps a little upright, you could try moving the saddle back a little on the rails (about 10-20mm) as in the top pic it looks right forward!

Kowalski675

The Beginner wrote:

Earlier krakens were a 580mm bar, that's the first iteration of the frame (2005?)....

A reflection of the overall change in fashion to wider bars then, I guess.

thelonegroover

Difficult to tell from the side, but wider bars may be even more comfortable.

step83

Special points for me, had been told continually it was an 18" frame, turns out its not! its a 20"!

Measured from the middle of the BB to the top of the seat post hole. Bang on 20" Top tops 23 inches and chainstays 17 inches.
Measured the total height, just over 27" from the BB, god i feel stupid now :oops:

jairaj

Looks about right to me. If you're riding smooth flowing single track then its looks absolutely fine. A smaller frame would allow you to drop the seat more for technical or rough sections but that would be usually be at the sacrifice of top tube length too.

The Rookie

The effective top tube length on the larger frame is only about 25mm longer than on the smaller frame....seat tube length isn't that relevant anyway.