Aftermarket fork lockouts

dazed_one

Hello folks.

Just slowly getting back into mountain biking after a ten year break. Bought myself a Trek Wahoo 29er which I'm very happy with (other than the saddle - never sat on such an uncomfy seat!). However, I've noticed the forks to be quite spongy when I'm standing or climbing, with the "preload" dial on each leg not seeming to make a difference.

I've noticed some forks have a lockout or even a remote lockout, which seems to be exactly what I could do with when on the road or climbing hills. The only problem is I can't seem to find an affordable aftermarket lockout product which I could fit to my existing forks. I'm guessing there isn't a simple answer but if anyone could shed some light on my options (short of buying new forks!) I'd appreciate it. Ta muchly :-)

I think my current forks are SR Suntour XCT V4 by the way.

Greer_

Is one of the preload dials a lockout on the fork crown? Suntour don't have a remote lockout for low end forks (only epicon/raidon or above) so its new fork time if you want it that badly! Or rigids ....

The Rookie

The XCT's are very basic forks but they are sold with a mechanical lockout function on some models although changing the required parts new will rpobably cost more than a better set of used forks. The lockout element is inside the fork, so of course you won't find an aftermarket part.

You can wind on as much preload as you want, it doesn't change the spring rate, only the preload and therefore ride height(expressed as sag from maximum), learning to 'sit and spin' will help.

Anonymous

my suntour XCM V3'S have mechanical lockout.

The Rookie

Inciteful, if of no help at all......

Anonymous

The Beginner wrote:

Inciteful, if of no help at all......

there cheaper then higher end suntours and come with lockout.

dazed_one

Thank you for the replies.

Greer_ - I'll take a more detailed look later at the dials but don't think either are a lockout.

Based on these replies then, it looks like ultimately a new set of forks will be on the cards as at the moment I'm doing more on-road than off-road (yes, I could have got a road-bike or hybrid but I wanted the freedom to pop on the trails when I felt like it and I can't afford two bikes!), but I guess I'll just have to put up with it until then and maybe try and adjust my riding style if I can so I'm not pushing on the forks so much.

Thanks again for the info, at least I know what preload is now

Kowalski675

The Beginner wrote:

You can wind on as much preload as you want, it doesn't change the spring rate, only the preload and therefore ride height(expressed as sag from maximum)

Christ, the amount of times I've tried to get that through skulls in relation to motorcycle suspension, but most just seem incapable of grasping it.

Anonymous

Kowalski675 wrote:

The Beginner wrote:

You can wind on as much preload as you want, it doesn't change the spring rate, only the preload and therefore ride height(expressed as sag from maximum)

Christ, the amount of times I've tried to get that through skulls in relation to motorcycle suspension, but most just seem incapable of grasping it.

yeah

I don't know where to put my preload setting.

seems I have lockout forks.

mind you unlocked its very bouncy off road.

more plus pre load should stiffen the front forks I think and stop so much bounce?
more minus pre load I think loosens the suspension but improves ride quality apparently?

can anyone explain this better?

kind of confuses me

cooldad

No, rebound damping stops them being bouncy. Otherwise you have a pogo stick.

Anonymous

cooldad wrote:

No, rebound damping stops them being bouncy. Otherwise you have a pogo stick.

I want comfy off road which way is that on the +/- minus dial

I only bout 9 stone 9/10lbs heavy

Greer_

Preload (+/- dial) sets sag not the 'stiffness' i.e. as The Beginner said, the spring rate doesn't change. To change that you need a new spring. A softer spring will give you more sag and a 'comfier' ride.

Anonymous

Greer_ wrote:

Preload (+/- dial) sets sag not the 'stiffness' i.e. as The Beginner said, the spring rate doesn't change. To change that you need a new spring. A softer spring will give you more sag and a 'comfier' ride.

my mistake o well.

sounds complex looks like im sticking to bouncy off road!

im happy they have lockout couldn't bare bouncy on road.

Kowalski675

andrewgrundill wrote:

more plus pre load should stiffen the front forks I think and stop so much bounce?
more minus pre load I think loosens the suspension but improves ride quality apparently?

Nope, preload only controls sag (ride height), altering preload doesn't make the suspension harder or softer (the spring rate remains the same). The reason your fork (and mine) feels bouncy is simply that they're cheap, low quality forks with little meaningful damping (in both compression and rebound strokes). The preload adjustment is just for setting your suspension sag - it should be adjusted so that when you're on the bike there should be about 20% sag (20% of available suspension travel used), so that the suspension can react to bumps without topping out. If you can't get the right amount of sag within the available range of adjustment then the spring rate isn't correct for your weight.

Anonymous

Kowalski675 wrote:

andrewgrundill wrote:

more plus pre load should stiffen the front forks I think and stop so much bounce?
more minus pre load I think loosens the suspension but improves ride quality apparently?

Nope, preload only controls sag (ride height), altering preload doesn't make the suspension harder or softer (the spring rate remains the same). The reason your fork (and mine) feels bouncy is simply that they're cheap, low quality forks with little meaningful damping (in both compression and rebound strokes). The preload adjustment is just for setting your suspension sag - it should be adjusted so that when you're on the bike there should be about 20% sag (20% of available suspension travel used), so that the suspension can react to bumps without topping out. If you can't get the right amount of sag within the available range of adjustment then the spring rate isn't correct for your weight.

apparently it should be 20% compressed/sagged whatever when standing on it in "attack" position.

what forks do you own ?

what would people recommend to counter this " rebound issue" im looking at rockshox Reba's. but considering if its really worth the cash. very expensive forks considering would probably have to get cheaper one's or buy second hand

how much value/performance do they had to the bike because I was told the bikes only has good as the parts installed on the bike. I cant change the frame easily but I can change the forks and possibly the wheels.

all thou my disc's rotors seems to riverted to the wheels no sign of any screw heads or anything to un attach them from the wheels which isn't helpful.

Kowalski675

andrewgrundill wrote:

what forks do you own ?

Me? Just the basic Suntour XCR lockout fork that came on the bike (Carrera Kraken). They're a very simple design, the internals are just springs, elastomer dampers and grease - no proper damping mechanisms or rebound adjustment. I'm not the person to advise on what fork is best, I'm just a newbie. As much as I'd like a pair of Rebas or similar, I'll be sticking with the XCR until such times as my riding abilities justify something better. At the moment I'm the weakest link on the bike, and I can get round Stainburn's red route with the bike as it is (I really do need some grippier pedals though). I had a bounce on a set of Recon Silver Solo Airs recently in my local shop (on a Cube XMS 120 and was surprised how plush and well controlled those felt for a budget fork, I'd be tempted by those for a budget price upgrade.

Anonymous

Kowalski675 wrote:

andrewgrundill wrote:

what forks do you own ?

Me? Just the basic Suntour XCR lockout fork that came on the bike (Carrera Kraken). They're a very simple design, the internals are just springs, elastomer dampers and grease - no proper damping mechanisms or rebound adjustment. I'm not the person to advise on what fork is best, I'm just a newbie. As much as I'd like a pair of Rebas or similar, I'll be sticking with the XCR until such times as my riding abilities justify something better. At the moment I'm the weakest link on the bike, and I can get round Stainburn's red route with the bike as it is (I really do need some grippier pedals though). I had a bounce on a set of Recon Silver Solo Airs recently in my local shop (on a Cube XMS 120 and was surprised how plush and well controlled those felt for a budget fork, I'd be tempted by those for a budget price upgrade.

im looking for around £100-£150 for forks depending.

maybe upgrade in a few month's

jus brought a suspension seat post so hopefully that will help the ride comfort off road a bit.


http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Mode ... lID=106542

this kinda of price range. I think these would fit on my bike

these would be better then my suntour xcm v3's

Kowalski675

I'm no expert, but although the XC30 would be better than what you've got, I don't think the difference would really be worth spending the money. For me (in Rockshox' model range) if I was going to upgrade then I'd be looking at the Recon Silver Solo Airs as the minimum - I reckon going lower down the range would be false economy.

Anonymous

Kowalski675 wrote:

I'm no expert, but although the XC30 would be better than what you've got, I don't think the difference would really be worth spending the money. For me (in Rockshox' model range) if I was going to upgrade then I'd be looking at the Recon Silver Solo Airs as the minimum - I reckon going lower down the range would be false economy.

your probably right.

mind you there always

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2013-SR-SUNTO ... vi-content

which look okay

but i'd feel better buying rockshox as the brands sounds higher quality

probably pick up some recon's or maybe reba's for around £125-£150 second hand

recon's

http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Mode ... elID=71178

Ouija

If your not afraid of ordering from overseas you can pick up stuff like Suntour Epicons (air based, super light at 1.6kg, rebound adjust and remote lockout) from Hong Kong based stores like Fibeca for a £130. Never had any problems with them or been hit with any custom charges (though i read somewhere that customs are starting to clamp down on goods from the far east).

Anonymous

Ouija wrote:

If your not afraid of ordering from overseas you can pick up stuff like Suntour Epicons (air based, super light at 1.6kg, rebound adjust and remote lockout) from Hong Kong based stores like Fibeca for a £130. Never had any problems with them or been hit with any custom charges (though i read somewhere that customs are starting to clamp down on goods from the far east).

I prefer to order from the uk

thanks' thou

Ouija

andrewgrundill wrote:

[
how much value/performance do they had to the bike because I was told the bikes only has good as the parts installed on the bike. I cant change the frame easily but I can change the forks and possibly the wheels.

all thou my disc's rotors seems to riverted to the wheels no sign of any screw heads or anything to un attach them from the wheels which isn't helpful.

The rotors are probably Shimano center lock disk (no bolts).

And before spending silly money on expensive wheels that will only save a few hundred grams in weight (and not all of it at the rims where it is most important) think about replacing your tyres instead. Most entry level bikes come with cheap off road tyres on them that weigh over a kilogram each. Simply splashing out a few quid on some in the 500 gram range will shave a kilogram of overall weight off the bike and save over 500g of weight of each wheel (and all of it at the rim, where it has the greatest effect on how fast the bikes accelerates, breaks and corners).

Greer_

I'd also look at RockShox Recon Silver and Gold solo air - can be had for less than £200. Check on-one and merlincycles.

Anonymous

Greer_ wrote:

I'd also look at RockShox Recon Silver and Gold solo air - can be had for less than £200. Check on-one and merlincycles.

not gonna be upgrading for a good few months yet jus wondering what was around

The Rookie

XCR's usually (but not all) have a damping cartridge, not as good as open bath, but better than nothing.

XCM with mechanical lockout have no damping, those with hydraulic lockout do.

Personally I buy used......

bennett_346

I understand the stuff about preload not affecting stiffness or spring rate, but what i've always wondered is why does it matter to adjust preload if all it does is adjust how far down into the travel the fork sits?

Surely if you buy 160mm forks for example you want as much of that to be useable travel as you can?

Kowalski675

The Beginner wrote:

XCR's usually (but not all) have a damping cartridge, not as good as open bath, but better than nothing.

XCM with mechanical lockout have no damping, those with hydraulic lockout do.

Personally I buy used......

I've not had my XCRs apart, I was going by an exploded diagram on their website. Maybe I had the wrong diagram or the design's changed (mine's a 2007 fork). To be fair, for a pocket money fork they seem better than most, and don't pogo like the even cheaper units. I'm sceptical of the "magnesium" sticker though - surely they can't be magnesium alloy legs at that price. Probably just means there's a tiny percentage of magnesium in the ally composition.

Kowalski675

bennett_346 wrote:

I understand the stuff about preload not affecting stiffness or spring rate, but what i've always wondered is why does it matter to adjust preload if all it does is adjust how far down into the travel the fork sits?

Surely if you buy 160mm forks for example you want as much of that to be useable travel as you can?

You need some sag so that the suspension doesn't top out over crests, rises etc.

Greer_

Kowalski675 wrote:

bennett_346 wrote:

I understand the stuff about preload not affecting stiffness or spring rate, but what i've always wondered is why does it matter to adjust preload if all it does is adjust how far down into the travel the fork sits?

Surely if you buy 160mm forks for example you want as much of that to be useable travel as you can?

You need some sag so that the suspension doesn't top out over crests, rises etc.

I think the reason is that too.

Ouija

bennett_346 wrote:

I understand the stuff about preload not affecting stiffness or spring rate, but what i've always wondered is why does it matter to adjust preload if all it does is adjust how far down into the travel the fork sits?

Surely if you buy 160mm forks for example you want as much of that to be useable travel as you can?

Because you don't want the fork to only compress (when going over a raised bump, for instance). You also want it to expand a little when the front wheel encounters a pot hole (you want the fork to expand down into the hole so that there's no sag and then return to it's slightly compressed/sag position as it comes back up the other side of the pot hole). It won't be able to do this if you've got the forks at maximum extension all the time (it'll be only able to compress). Instead, the whole front of the bike will go down into the pot hole rather than just the fork expanding down into it and leaving the handle bars at the same height. Hence the reason you ride around with the forks a little sagged (so that they're unidirectional and not monodirection).

bennett_346

That's a well explained answer, i understand now thanks. Since i've never had coil forks it's something i've always wondered but never thought about it hard enough to ask or research.