Help with buying and maintaining waterproofs

davidcoombes

I'm looking for recommendations for waterproof jackets including full maintenance routines.

I've been cycling commuting to work for the best part of ten years, and I still can't get the waterproofs right. I buy waterproofs and they are excellent and keep me warm and dry. Then after a year's use they stop working, and I use various waterproofing agents and washes and whatnot and they still fail and I buy some new ones. The problem is that maintenance instructions are contradictory, vague guidelines only. My last decent waterproof was a £90 Gill eVent jacket that was great until it stopped working. Advice with the jacket said, "don't wash in machine detergents. These can remove the DWR finish." Advice on the web said the very opposite - "the pores in the eVent lining can get clogged with dirt. Wash in a machine and rewaterproof." The only reproofing success I've had is NikWax spray on, which requires several coats to get a good finish that beads the water, and it only lasts a few rainfalls before failing. I've tried all in one wash+reproof which was always useless. I've tried specialist cycling detergents that protect the DWR finish which fail to clean the garments whatsoever. I don't have a tumbledrier for those heat-activated DWRs. No-one anyone says how often you are supposed to wash a jacket; only that washing can remove its waterproof qualities, and not washing can course failure of breathable membranes!

So can anyone offer a step-by-step, experience-based solution to buying and maintaing a waterproof. Give jacket type, detergent washed in, how often, how it's reproofed, and how long it's lasted?

eg. Altura nightvision Evo, washed every two months in Aerial biological at 30 degrees, followed by NikWax wash-in waterproofing. Two years doing this and still bone dry.

MichaelW

Detergent will strip the DWR but soap is OK. You can get Nikwax techwash soap but Dri Pack liquid soap flakes are cheaper and just as good. I've tried solid soap flakes and grated soap and they both work but not so conveniently.
Machine was on synthetic at 30-40C ensuring that you remove all traces of detergent from the soap container.

A well proofed jacket should last a couple of washed before the DWR needs re-doing.
If you have washed in detergent, or dry cleaned, you need to re-wash in soap then reproof the DWR.

Use Nikwax TX direct on a wet, washed jacket.

My winter jacket (Nov-May) is a Paramo and it is in its 10th year.

davidcoombes

Thanks Michel. How often do you wash? Is it best to wash often to clean the membrane pores?

Headhuunter

I try to avoid washing any of my Gore Tex jackets anymore. This has been pretty much impossible with my cycling gear as it gets v sweaty and needs to be washed. I've basically given up buying fancy breathable waterproof cycling stuff as it just stops being waterproof after a couple of washes so just isn't worth spending the money on. I just get wet or wear some cheap non breathable waterproof.

I washed 1 of my standard Gore Tex jackets once after a few years of use in a special breathable waterproof fabric washing liquid - not only did the liquid fail to actually wash off any of the dirt, it stripped the waterproofing so it was a complete and utter fail... Basically don't wash breathable waterproof fabrics and expect them to remain as waterproof as before...

davidcoombes

That's my experience too. But I've read on the internet the complete opposite, with people using Gore and eVent getting sterling use from them with suitable washing. Buying cheap, disposable jackets was the direction I was heading, but with the amount of commuters on this forum I'm sure there must be people with plenty of experience who know how to get their waterproofs to work. I'm somewhat annoyed at the clothing manufacturers who don't go into essential details like how often one should wash, and recommend detergents. I've even read of people getting different details from the clothing companies via private support request to that which comes with the garment (use biological machine detergent in contradiction to the washing instructions).

I don't understand why the instructions for washing should be kept a secret!

:?

MichaelW

I wash my summer gortex about 1/year and my winter Paramo stuff every 2-3 months.
The beading treatment will never be as-new but you have to wash them sometimes.
With Gortex the beading is there to maintain breathability, not waterproofness. The membrane is proof with or without the beading but it gets clogged up with water and dirt so breathability suffers and it takes longer to dry out. You also get more condensation which you may mistake for leakage.
I have never seen any jacket reviews which go beyond a few weeks of wearing so long-term durability and washability is never mentioned.

jimmypippa

Have you considered windproofs as well?

I have a pertex windshell (Montane featherlite velo -not the H2O version) and wear that most of the time. That way my waterproof (eVent Montane Stormrider - discontinued now) stays clean longer. I've seen people say that eVent should be washed about every 5-days of wear, which I take to be full days not commutes.

I do commute from the Peak District all year round so do see a fair bit of rain.

davidcoombes

That's not a bad suggestion. I wear the same jacket constantly, which means lots of skin contact even when it's not raining. That'll mess up the membranes. If I know it's not going to rain, a switch to a windproof saves wear and tear on the waterproof. Sound advice!

Anyone had any really positive experience with waterproofing? Given how ineffective it seems, it's almost like the money is better saved for a new jacket.

desweller

TBH I gave up on waterproofing pretty quickly. I just sweated to death inside the jacket and got just as wet.

As long as my head, hands and feet are reasonably covered I find I don't mind a bit of rain. I now select my cold weather/wet weather gear to keep me warm even when wet, and that seems to work for me.

I shower and change at both ends of my commute though; if you can't do that then my solution is not the best.

dav1

I wash my waterproofs as little as possible but still have to do it often to keep them fresh.

A couple of times a year I reproof them with Grangers 2 in 1 cleaner and proofer. This restores the waterproofing nicely! Wash it, tumble dry and done. I have never had a problem with my gear doing this.

Here is a link to wiggle, you can get it in any good outdoor shop though http://www.wiggle.co.uk/grangers-30-deg ... fer-300ml/

Headhuunter

Dav1 wrote:

I wash my waterproofs as little as possible but still have to do it often to keep them fresh.

A couple of times a year I reproof them with Grangers 2 in 1 cleaner and proofer. This restores the waterproofing nicely! Wash it, tumble dry and done. I have never had a problem with my gear doing this.

Here is a link to wiggle, you can get it in any good outdoor shop though http://www.wiggle.co.uk/grangers-30-deg ... fer-300ml/

That's the stuff I used and it was rubbish... As per previous post, failed to remove the dirt but successfully reduced the waterproofing....

davidcoombes

I'm very confused how different people can get such different experiences with the same product. My jacket came with Grangers but I don't have a tumble drier, and AFAIK most people don't have them, so it's kind of an odd requirement. the heat activated stuff might be much better than the wash in stuff like NikWax, but with no way to activate it, it's useless.

The Rookie

Launderettes will have a tumble drier....simples

Different materials will of course respond to different 'agents' in different ways.

Many MTBers swear by running a waterproof through a 'wash' with a heavy dose of fabric conditioner.

BUR70N

Has anyone purchased a Montane Velo City jacket, if so what do you think to it?

I have decided to have 2 jackets to help keep warm and drier with rotating them.