How Can I Get Better At Going Up Hills?

kampernaut

Started riding this March and have been building up mileage to tackle a 105 mile ride that I successfully completed last weekend and I'm quite pleased with that achievement.

However, I'm rubbish at going up hills and I hope you can help me improve.

I get left behind my mates going up even gentle slopes. I'm quickly forced down to my lowest gear and provided it isn't too steep (around 3%) I can pedal for a long time (4 miles plus) at 89rpm but I am breathing quite hard. Other riders seem to ride past me like the hill isn't there.

When it gets much steeper than 3%, I quickly reach my max heart rate and cannot sustain this for very long before I have to stop and rest or walk. There is one hill near me that is 0.36 miles long and averages 9.1% gradient getting to 14% near the top. I have never managed to climb it without stopping.

Obviously I can just keep trying to climb the same old hills but that is really knackering. Is there any other type of training I can do to enable me to climb the gentler hills in a higher gear?

What about the steeper slopes? Should I be changing my gears for those or do I just have to practice? I already have a triple with a 9 speed 12-27 cassette and 50/39/30 chainrings.

crispybug2

kampernaut wrote:

Obviously I can just keep trying to climb the same old hills but that is really knackering. Is there any other type of training I can do to enable me to climb the gentler hills in a higher gear?

Unfortunately for you there is but one type of training to help you climb hills better and that is to ride hills again and again......and again.....and again.....and again.....and again.


Also lose weight.....yep that's pretty much what you need to do!!

antfly

What weight are you ?

Calpol

crispybug2 wrote:

kampernaut wrote:

Obviously I can just keep trying to climb the same old hills but that is really knackering. Is there any other type of training I can do to enable me to climb the gentler hills in a higher gear?

Unfortunately for you there is but one type of training to help you climb hills better and that is to ride hills again and again......and again.....and again.....and again.....and again.


Also lose weight.....yep that's pretty much what you need to do!!

+1 - there are no short cuts.
Try and keep your effort evenly paced in as comfortable gear as you can. Stay seated and look to engage your glutes as you pedal. Its tempting to pick routes that avoid hills but really the only thing you can do is embrace the challenge and enjoy the victory when you conquer it. Use Strava or similar to record your progress - I find that quite motivating. With that gearing you have plenty of scope but maybe experiment with a slightly lower cadence than 90+ . Good luck and well done on the century

kampernaut

antfly wrote:

What weight are you ?

206lbs and that's Moby for me.

desweller

Lose weight and get stronger.

kampernaut

Thanks very much for the replies.

OK I get it, lose the gut and practice but what type of hills, how steep and how long do they need to be? How many times a week? Do I just go up and down until I can barely pedal any more or what?

Should I just focus on this for a few weeks and forget the distance stuff?

@calpol, thanks for the Strava suggestion and the technique advice. Great tips.

Gizmodo

kampernaut wrote:

Thanks very much for the replies.

OK I get it, lose the gut and practice but what type of hills, how steep and how long do they need to be? How many times a week? Do I just go up and down until I can barely pedal any more or what?

Should I just focus on this for a few weeks and forget the distance stuff?

@calpol, thanks for the Strava suggestion and the technique advice. Great tips.

Varied training is the best, train as often as you can, sometimes you might only have time to do an hour so find a local hill and do hill repeats until you will only be able to limp home. Do distance work when you can to build up endurance. Do interval training, flat out efforts for 3 minutes, rest for 1, repeat. Rest is also important, do not train every day, let your body recover.

There is a dedicated training forum with loads more advice - viewforum.php?f=40011

farrina

Well if you are up to riding 100 miles plus you are not exactly a novice!

You do not say how tall you are, but assuming you are not 6ft 10 I think the other posters have pretty much hit the nail on the head - you need to lose weight.

I was reading an article in June's edition of The Cyclists magazine that reckons that Pro riders carry no more than 1kg per 2.5 cm of height. We can all aspire to this but reality at 6-4 and 176lb (if my maths is correct at least in my case it is 1.13 kg per cm of height) it's not going to happen. Gives you an idea of where you need to head though.

Gearing wise you already have a vast range of gears, in fact you go very low so nothing doing here

Ignoring your weight for now, my other thought is whether you have tried a higher gear (i.e. harder) but slower cadence up the steeper hills. Sometimes it is possible to over pedal on hills whereas a controlled slower pace may be better for you.

If you are already monitoring your heart rate I assume you can also monitor your overall performance (Garmin Edge 500 is good value in this regard if not). This is a good approach for regular routes as sometimes performance gains ( bit like failing eye sight) are not apparent until you compare with what you were doing 6 months ago.

If you are not already using them clipless pedals allow for better power distribution and security. Rigid cycling shoes help apply max power.

The only other thing is that you don't say how long your friends have been riding for - they may have a substantial cardiovascular base. Additionally you ( and I ) have no hope of matching a 9 stone lightweight on a hill who will have a massive weight/power advantage. It's very much a question of pacing yourself and ignoring the others.

I am sure more knowledgeable people will be along shortly, but as I understand it to burn fat you need to run your heart rate relatively slow, so getting the miles in might not be a bad idea. Also why not monitor your food intake using My Fitness Pal ( free on Apple store and has web/ Android client) You might be shocked to see how much you are consuming - I was!

So to conclude, enjoy your cycling and keep at it. Experiment with your hill climbing and observe. Most important bit is that you enjoy it as otherwise it will not continue.

Good luck.

Regards

Alan

kampernaut

@Gizmodo, @farrina - Thank you both for your very constructive replies. I'll check out that training forum and incorporate some hill repeats and intervals into my weekly training.

@farrina - Its fair to say that I don't look like a cyclist I'm considerably overweight for my 6' body. Thanks to you and everyone else who has pointed that out, my resolve has now been galvanised to do something about it. Ironically the cycling was supposed to help but unless I also do something about what I chuck in at the top I'm not going to lose weight. I'll check out that app you mention thanks. I do have the clips and an Edge 500 so I should be able to monitor any improvement. I already notice some improvement since I first started. One hill I regularly climb no longer gets my heart rate up to the max — it's still a b****** though! At the risk of asking the obvious, besides HR, what other stats should I be tracking?

My mates are either younger, leaner or fitter than me (all three in some cases) and they are all considerably more experienced so I expect them to be better at it.

hatch87

Just a couple of things to add. With your heart rate at max, don't use the old 220-your age or what ever gamrin tells you it is. I have a tiny little heart that races away at near 210 and average 180's most of the time. Garmin reckon for my age I should be at 190 so I'm quite often over 100% until I changed what my max was.

The other thing is start slow, I used to always try and attack hills from the start then get slower by the top. Now I do it in reverse, start slow once I feel comfortable I push a bit harder. There's no time to recover on a hill so burning out by half way is no fun. This has not only improved my hill climbing speed, but also allows me to keep going once I'm at the top rather than puffing and panting waiting for some down hill.

team47b

farrina wrote:

I was reading an article in June's edition of The Cyclists magazine that reckons that Pro riders carry no more than 1kg per 2.5 cm of height. We can all aspire to this but...

...I would have to gain 10kgs to achieve that :shock:

It takes a long time before you suddenly realise that the hill you used to struggle up is now just a slope, keep at it, it doesn't really matter how much you weigh, muscles take time to grow, and it will get easier. I sometimes tow a trailer with 20kgs+ in it and the hills seem the same as always only difference is I go up them slower, they don't actually feel any harder, it hasn't always been like this. Patience

Gkarno

Your no novice at 100miles I've only just started and I'm 6'2ft 217lb and only managing around the 35 mile mark thus far. going out once a week and the occasional mid week when the weather is good. I've seen a vast improvement on my hill climbing over the past months when out with my little crew of foursome till usually the 5-8mile home leg and I start to fatigue. Can't say I'm to worried as I know with time ill beable to stay with them. I also worked out I'm carrying 17 - 31kg more than the rest which really helps me to focus. So don't beat yourself up, it's all in the mind as I say. My favourite thing to shout while struggling up a hill is no pain no gain and it truely works. Also I will rarely ever drop down to my lower compact gear with 12-28 unless the gradient is very steep. Not sure If this helps but thought I'd share.

antfly

OP. I just noticed that you only started cycling in March, so you are a novice, whether you have done a century or not. Hills are very hard work when you start out (and always}, you have to expect to really struggle . The fitter and lighter you get the easier they get and being new to the game you will make the most dramatic improvements in the first few months, just accept that hills are going to be a real slog before you start enjoying them as a challenge. You could also try working on good climbing technique which I am sure you can find on google. Also, if you have crap wheels that bikes usually come with, light, stiff wheels do make a big difference on hilly rides.

kampernaut

antfly wrote:

OP. I just noticed that you only started cycling in March, so you are a novice, whether you have done a century or not.

Whilst it was charitable of others to say I'm not, I agree with you. It certainly felt like it on the century as more people passed me than I passed and everyone seemed to overtake me on the hills.

antfly wrote:

Hills are very hard work when you start out (and always}, you have to expect to really struggle . The fitter and lighter you get the easier they get and being new to the game you will make the most dramatic improvements in the first few months, just accept that hills are going to be a real slog before you start enjoying them as a challenge. You could also try working on good climbing technique which I am sure you can find on google. Also, if you have crap wheels that bikes usually come with, light, stiff wheels do make a big difference on hilly rides.

Mmmm. Hills and enjoy. Two words I never considered using in the same sentence.

Thanks for the other tips. I hadn't considered wheels. I have the stock wheels on a Specialized Secteur Sport Triple. I presume they are regarded as crap? I must admit, I'm sure most of the problem lies with the bloke in the saddle as others have pointed out.

kampernaut

hatch87 wrote:

Just a couple of things to add. With your heart rate at max, don't use the old 220-your age or what ever gamrin tells you it is. I have a tiny little heart that races away at near 210 and average 180's most of the time. Garmin reckon for my age I should be at 190 so I'm quite often over 100% until I changed what my max was.

Yes I had noticed that the formula doesn't seem to apply. As I noticed new highs I kept adjusting the settings on my computer accordingly. 182 has been the maximum for a while now so I guess that's it. I'm 50.

hatch87 wrote:

The other thing is start slow, I used to always try and attack hills from the start then get slower by the top. Now I do it in reverse, start slow once I feel comfortable I push a bit harder. There's no time to recover on a hill so burning out by half way is no fun. This has not only improved my hill climbing speed, but also allows me to keep going once I'm at the top rather than puffing and panting waiting for some down hill.

Thanks, I'll give that a try.

junglist_matty

You want the good news or the bad news!?

The good news.... You're out on the bike and riding, keep at it regularly and try to enjoy it even when it's really tough (weather, tiredness, whatever), and keep riding those hills. You'll notice a massive jump in your initial fitness over the first few months and you'll easily climb hills you struggled with when you first started.

The bad news..... You WILL hit a fitness plateau sooner rather than later; you'll only get quicker on the hills by shedding that extra weight (easier said than done), it won't get any easier, you'll have good days and bad days on repeated hills, days with strong tailwinds and days with grim headwinds, the key is to keep at it, you're strength and fitness will increase a hell of a lot slower, a couple of years down the line you'll feel a lot better for it. Just keep riding through the plateau, where it seems you just can't get any quicker, and in most cases, you probably won't on 95% of rides.

chrisaonabike

kampernaut wrote:

Mmmm. Hills and enjoy. Two words I never considered using in the same sentence.

I love hills.

It's always such a pleasure to get to the top and notice I haven't died.

mpatts

My 2p's:

Interval training helps - and getting out on the bike you get a natural bit of this, but it's always good to concentrate on this.

Weight is the other obvious, as others have said. The kit helps, but who is on it is certainly a cheaper way to go. I'm now 67kg (5ft 10) - I've lost about 9kg over a year or so - and the difference is incredible. I don't even notice inclines anymore, and hills are fun rather than horrible.

That said, a mate of mine just bought his first carbon bike - he is carrying a lot of timber, but it's made a huge difference.

mpatts

Oh, and re the hill you can't get up - there was one around here I couldn't get up - I rode it every week until I could. First time up felt amazing!

slowbike

My 2ps

you're currently limited by your CV system - so work on that. Intervals are good.
You can also do activities off the bike (if it's more convenient) - anything that raises the heartrate for a time would be good. Fitness classes down the gym, vigorous walks/runs, swimming etc etc ... It won't make your legs better for riding, but it'll improve your fitness level and make riding faster ..

Hills never get easy ...

kampernaut

@ ChrisAOnABike Haha, like the positive mental attitude!!

@junglist_matty Thanks I get it.

@mpatts Well done on that 9kg weight loss. I've done it before so I'm sure I can do it again. I am also determined to get up that hill eventually. I was just hoping that there was something less demoralising I could practice on between attempts at it. Since posting I've been googling to find routines and I'll eventually find something that I can fit in. It is going to be a long time before I spend more money on a new bike or an expensive upgrade.

@Slowbike Thanks. I've kinda been forced into cycling due to various injuries that prevent me from doing the other activities you suggest I walk vigorously for a bit on days I don't ride the bike. I will find some interval routines and incorporate them.

ct8282

I'd say get yourself onto a leg weight training routine.

My main hobby is body building, I weigh 76kg and bench around 110kg, and can leg press around 250kg. I also run lots and now cycle roads too. I usually rinse all of my mates on the hills and some are seasoned riders, but I have an awful lot of power in my legs so just smash up hills and because I have good cardiovascular fitness too I am able to sustain long climbs that leave some of my mates walking.

I agree that you should keep kitting the hills and keep riding, but you will need extra strength and stamina if you want to really improve. Go push some weights around and it gets easier very quickly I can assure you.

farrina

Your surname is not Hoy by any chance ?

kampernaut

ct8282 wrote:

Go push some weights around and it gets easier very quickly I can assure you.

Interesting. When I originally posted I imagined I would get several suggestions like yours.

It seems to me that Cycling uses very specific muscles that are different from running. So what type of exercises? Lots of reps with modest weights or few reps with large weights? Or am I opening up a massive can of worms here?

smidsy

Climbing is all about power to weight ratio and the ability to sustain that for prolonged periods. Your CV system is the key to the latter.

Weight training serves no useful purpose in cycling.

OP - the only way to get better is to keep doing it. I know the hard way that this is not easy and takes a lot of cycling to improve it.

smoggysteve

smidsy wrote:

Climbing is all about power to weight ratio and the ability to sustain that for prolonged periods. Your CV system is the key to the latter.

Pretty much the truth, but alot can be achieved with better technique.

As has been mentioned. Selecting the right gear before you climb is paramount.
Sit up and rest your hands on the crossbar. This helps your lungs work better. Also you need to work on your peddling technique. Keep your cadence at a steady comfortable rate and try to push and pull with both feet instead of just pushing on the down stroke. This keeps your pace and works the different muscles in your legs making you stronger at the same time.

Try to remain seated for as long as you can and only get out to push harder as you approach the top. Shift up a gear and attack the brow of the hill and keep the pace as you reach the summit.

Yes being light as possible is a big part of climbing but its not the be all and end all.

ct8282

smidsy wrote:

Climbing is all about power to weight ratio and the ability to sustain that for prolonged periods. Your CV system is the key to the latter.

Weight training serves no useful purpose in cycling.

OP - the only way to get better is to keep doing it. I know the hard way that this is not easy and takes a lot of cycling to improve it.

I'm not going to argue with you seasoned riders as I am not an expert on riding and do not proclaim to be, at all. But I can't accept the concept that weight training serves no useful purpose in cycling.

http://www.bikeradar.com/fitness/articl ... sts-35771/

I appreciate the part where it says 'being able to leg press a VW is not useful on a bike' but the simple fact is that having more strength helps to put more power through the cranks. This cannot be denied. Yes, of course technique is vital, and the ability to sustain power is crucial, I'm not questioning that but saying weight training serves no purpose is ridiculous.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/ ... h-training

http://www.cptips.com/weights.htm

http://www.bicycling.com/training-nutri ... sts-season

Find one top cycling athlete that does no form of weight training for their legs. Most of course will engage in some form of weight training to strengthen their legs, and factor this into a decent cycling training regime and you will promote improved strength and stamina to sustain the extra power.
The fact is that weight training has a number of significant benefits that will all go towards helping you to take on the hills and put more power through your bike. I'm not suggesting you should dedicate hours to lifting weights but its worth considering.

As I said however, I'm no expert so perhaps the masses are providing better advice. I will continue to push weights as I have always been a solid hill climber. Maybe I'm just lucky.

antfly

In reality you don't actually pull up on the pedal, what you should be doing is releasing your weight on the upstroke so you push down with your other leg.

smoggysteve

I do pull on the up stroke. I try to keep a smooth rotation as I ride uphill. it may not be to everyone's preference but I find it works for me and in using different parts of my leg muscles it stops fatigue setting in earlier.

antfly

You can't pull up with one leg and push down with the other, it's not possible. If you are pulling up then you are not pushing down, not a good way to pedal. You should always "unweighten" on the upstroke, driving the knee towards the bars, it uses your upper leg muscles and relieves the calves and helps to equalise effort in both legs.