Wiggins..Giro=DIFFICULT!

vinnymarsden

Why are people surprised that Wiggins is finding the Giro difficult??
Its a much harder test than the TDF overall, by his own admission he has lost a little edge...let's not beat him up....he isn't there because he's obligated to ride, he's there because he wants to win....personally I'm not sure it was ever on the cards with some of the departures from Team Sky, but hey....he's there, he's trying but it might just not be his time...don't forget with VERY FEW exceptions all top sports people have off days, I only hope that Brailsford has the cojones to still allow Froomy to be No 1 in the TDF!!!!

ddraver

Yeah man, I mean if only they'd listened to a bloke an an internet forum! I mean Gaaalll you know?

danlikesbikes

Well I guess that people were expecting him to do so well based on last years win, the Sky documentaries & all the press that his training was going well & looking to do the double (which I recall he made a public statement to the effect of).

Don't think people are surprised (those that are impartial anyway) more concerned that he appears to only be 90-95% in the first week & if the rumours are correct that he has a cold then this could go part of the way to explain a few poor choices in the first week re positioning. For me today was the first real test & whilst he was dropped, he did ride at a good rate and made up ground in the closing part. Plus playing the long game he still has over a week & a half left where others may falter, or more importantly the team support may falter.

As for the TDF personally I would like to see Fromme given the number 1 slot, but TBH it will depend on how well he is going & how well Brad is going.

Richmond Racer

Froome is going to stomp on those pedals at the Dauphine. I expect to see cranks needing replacing on daily basis.

vinnymarsden

I agree re Froome, he paid his dues last year....and it's not that I dislike Wiggins, far from it, but I think if Team Sky want to keep hold of their best riders they need to keep the ALL happy, you can't keep changing your mind because someone else does, i'm sure if Wiggins had got the nod to defend his TDF then Froome would be at the Giro, he isn't so he deserves his shot in France, some rumour he might be at BMC next year surfaced recently..Team Sky need to keep hold of him, because to be honest Evans will soon need replacing as No 1...don't let Team Sky get disassembled simply due to dithering decision making.

earthvspace4XTuUWcX

I don't really understand the SKY thinking. The T of F probably suits Wiggins more than the Giro, so why didn't they let him defend his title, whilst giving Froome a chance at the Giro, which probably suits him better than the T of F.

Pross

xdoc wrote:

I don't really understand the SKY thinking. The T of F probably suits Wiggins more than the Giro, so why didn't they let him defend his title, whilst giving Froome a chance at the Giro, which probably suits him better than the T of F.

Less TT miles in the Tour than the Giro this year, that was the thinking. Right up until the Giro team was announced I was convinced they were bluffing and that Froome was going for the Giro as his form seemed much more ready for it but there you go!

RichN95.

xdoc wrote:

I don't really understand the SKY thinking. The T of F probably suits Wiggins more than the Giro, so why didn't they let him defend his title, whilst giving Froome a chance at the Giro, which probably suits him better than the T of F.

Because Froome is better than Wiggins right now and the Tour is the bigger race (by a long way)

LeicesterLad

RichN95 wrote:

xdoc wrote:

I don't really understand the SKY thinking. The T of F probably suits Wiggins more than the Giro, so why didn't they let him defend his title, whilst giving Froome a chance at the Giro, which probably suits him better than the T of F.

Because Froome is better than Wiggins right now and the Tour is the bigger race (by a long way)

Not forgetting to mention of course that Originally Wiggins said he wasn't a*sed about defending the yellow jersey.

jscl

A big reason for Wiggo's issues at the Giro all boil down to Ronnie Osullivan winning his snooker title. Money talks.

Richmond Racer

LeicesterLad wrote:

RichN95 wrote:

xdoc wrote:

I don't really understand the SKY thinking. The T of F probably suits Wiggins more than the Giro, so why didn't they let him defend his title, whilst giving Froome a chance at the Giro, which probably suits him better than the T of F.

Because Froome is better than Wiggins right now and the Tour is the bigger race (by a long way)

Not forgetting to mention of course that Originally Wiggins said he wasn't a*sed about defending the yellow jersey.

Erm...that bit might have been a bit..erm....forgotten

knedlicky

VinnyMarsden wrote:

Why are people surprised that Wiggins is finding the Giro difficult??
Its a much harder test than the TDF overall

I like the debates which go around in circles.

thamacdaddy

Edit nvm :?

Chebrikov

Coaching staff at Sky are at a loss as to why Sir Brad's form is so poor in this years Giro. "I believe that we know a lot more than we did even 12 months ago," Kerrison said, before the start of the race, with reference to Sir Brad's power numbers in training,"It's still a shock how unstructured a lot of other riders and teams are. Swimmers very rarely do anything without a coach, rowing a bit more, but in cycling a huge amount of training is done without a coach. The concept of coaching seems to be hit and miss: some teams have a coach; some teams leave their riders to their own devices; in some thedirecteurs sportifs oversee what they do between races but we know it's hard for them."

Sources close to Sky training staff have confirmed that Wiggin's power meter analysis before the race showed his FTP (functional threshold power) and power to weight ratio were better than ever. One coach told our source, "We are not sure yet if there is a problem with the power meter data analysis software which should estimate FTP to + / - 0.5% or if it is a power meter calibration problem. Brad is adamant that the power meters he is using in the Giro this year are giving him lower numbers for a perceived effort than he was getting all year in training. In fact we know his heart rate is higher at certain wattages in the race than it was in training but we know heart rate is irrelevant so we are not worried about this. We noticed that when the climbs get steep his cadence is lower than in training, but we know cadence is a red herring and we just look at the power numbers. We talked to Brad about his calibration methods and he has assured us he has been doing things by the book, but then he also said he left it to Steven de Jongh, Bobby Julich or Sean Yates to sort out his power meters until this year and when we asked him which book he was using he said he was using the same book as a weight as last year. We have tried putting the data through some new software and comparing that to the old software and we have found that the new software is a bit different to the old but only by a few watts. We have sent a whole load of data off to Dr Andrew Coggan, the leading expert in this field, and are hopeful he will be able to explain what has been going on. We told him about Brad's higher heart rate at over 400 watts in the race than he was getting in training but Coggan told us heart rate was of no use if you are training with power. We also think some of the other teams might be using some sort of device which throws the SRM data off. Brad says his power meter numbers get stuck whenever Nibali attacks. In fact Brad was looking at his power numbers which were a bit weird when he crashed the other day."

Kerrison says he believes Sky are the only professional team that offers dedicated one-to-one coaching to all its riders – they have four full-time coaches at present – and notes that other teams are looking to the British squad, whether it be warming down after stages, or sending whole detachments to train at altitude in Tenerife. "Everyone is now following our lead in things like warm-downs; more and more teams have coaching staff. I genuinely hope it's the start of a new era in cycling."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/ap ... s-team-sky
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/others ... -girl.html

greasedscotsman

VinnyMarsden wrote:

Its a much harder test than the TDF overall...

Moreno Argentin "The Giro is kindergarten compared to the university that is the Tour de France."

goonz

By the looks of things, both are childs play compared to the first few stages of the Tour of California at the moment! How hot is it?????

Riders collapsing even before they get to the line!

TMR

VinnyMarsden wrote:

I agree re Froome, he paid his dues last year....and it's not that I dislike Wiggins, far from it, but I think if Team Sky want to keep hold of their best riders they need to keep the ALL happy, you can't keep changing your mind because someone else does, i'm sure if Wiggins had got the nod to defend his TDF then Froome would be at the Giro, he isn't so he deserves his shot in France, some rumour he might be at BMC next year surfaced recently..Team Sky need to keep hold of him, because to be honest Evans will soon need replacing as No 1...don't let Team Sky get disassembled simply due to dithering decision making.

I'd be quite happy if CF did go to BMC. I don't like SKY and I've never liked SKY. It will teach them not to mess people around, or hold a better rider back to keep a lesser rider in yellow... :P

TMR

Chebrikov wrote:

We also think some of the other teams might be using some sort of device which throws the SRM data off. Brad says his power meter numbers get stuck whenever Nibali attacks. In fact Brad was looking at his power numbers which were a bit weird when he crashed the other day."

LMAO!

I've seen it all now. So other Teams are deploying Electronic Warfare to stop BW winning the Giro? Really? :P

Pross

The Mad Rapper wrote:

VinnyMarsden wrote:

I agree re Froome, he paid his dues last year....and it's not that I dislike Wiggins, far from it, but I think if Team Sky want to keep hold of their best riders they need to keep the ALL happy, you can't keep changing your mind because someone else does, i'm sure if Wiggins had got the nod to defend his TDF then Froome would be at the Giro, he isn't so he deserves his shot in France, some rumour he might be at BMC next year surfaced recently..Team Sky need to keep hold of him, because to be honest Evans will soon need replacing as No 1...don't let Team Sky get disassembled simply due to dithering decision making.

I'd be quite happy if CF did go to BMC. I don't like SKY and I've never liked SKY. It will teach them not to mess people around, or hold a better rider back to keep a lesser rider in yellow... :P

Then TJVG would have to get his girlfriend sending moaning tweets about it.

TMR

Pross wrote:

Then TJVG would have to get his girlfriend sending moaning tweets about it.

Sorry fella, I'm not sure what you mean about that. Could you get the crayons out please?

Richmond Racer

Pross wrote:

The Mad Rapper wrote:

VinnyMarsden wrote:

I agree re Froome, he paid his dues last year....and it's not that I dislike Wiggins, far from it, but I think if Team Sky want to keep hold of their best riders they need to keep the ALL happy, you can't keep changing your mind because someone else does, i'm sure if Wiggins had got the nod to defend his TDF then Froome would be at the Giro, he isn't so he deserves his shot in France, some rumour he might be at BMC next year surfaced recently..Team Sky need to keep hold of him, because to be honest Evans will soon need replacing as No 1...don't let Team Sky get disassembled simply due to dithering decision making.

I'd be quite happy if CF did go to BMC. I don't like SKY and I've never liked SKY. It will teach them not to mess people around, or hold a better rider back to keep a lesser rider in yellow... :P

Then TJVG would have to get his girlfriend sending moaning tweets about it.

Oh yeah. The BMC GFs/wives will be thrilled about this move, if it happens...

Ed-tron

Will probably get posted by others, but just in case, Cycling Weekly just linked this on twitter. Wiggo doing cyclocross in 2002

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pt5h-rns ... e=youtu.be

b45her

Ed-tron wrote:

Will probably get posted by others, but just in case, Cycling Weekly just linked this on twitter. Wiggo doing cyclocross in 2002

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pt5h-rns ... e=youtu.be

funniest video i've seen in a while, that guy should think about a career in comedy.

HandyAndy

Chebrikov wrote:

Coaching staff at Sky are at a loss as to why Sir Brad's form is so poor in this years Giro. "I believe that we know a lot more than we did even 12 months ago," Kerrison said, before the start of the race, with reference to Sir Brad's power numbers in training,"It's still a shock how unstructured a lot of other riders and teams are. Swimmers very rarely do anything without a coach, rowing a bit more, but in cycling a huge amount of training is done without a coach. The concept of coaching seems to be hit and miss: some teams have a coach; some teams leave their riders to their own devices; in some thedirecteurs sportifs oversee what they do between races but we know it's hard for them."

Sources close to Sky training staff have confirmed that Wiggin's power meter analysis before the race showed his FTP (functional threshold power) and power to weight ratio were better than ever. One coach told our source, "We are not sure yet if there is a problem with the power meter data analysis software which should estimate FTP to + / - 0.5% or if it is a power meter calibration problem. Brad is adamant that the power meters he is using in the Giro this year are giving him lower numbers for a perceived effort than he was getting all year in training. In fact we know his heart rate is higher at certain wattages in the race than it was in training but we know heart rate is irrelevant so we are not worried about this. We noticed that when the climbs get steep his cadence is lower than in training, but we know cadence is a red herring and we just look at the power numbers. We talked to Brad about his calibration methods and he has assured us he has been doing things by the book, but then he also said he left it to Steven de Jongh, Bobby Julich or Sean Yates to sort out his power meters until this year and when we asked him which book he was using he said he was using the same book as a weight as last year. We have tried putting the data through some new software and comparing that to the old software and we have found that the new software is a bit different to the old but only by a few watts. We have sent a whole load of data off to Dr Andrew Coggan, the leading expert in this field, and are hopeful he will be able to explain what has been going on. We told him about Brad's higher heart rate at over 400 watts in the race than he was getting in training but Coggan told us heart rate was of no use if you are training with power. We also think some of the other teams might be using some sort of device which throws the SRM data off. Brad says his power meter numbers get stuck whenever Nibali attacks. In fact Brad was looking at his power numbers which were a bit weird when he crashed the other day."

Kerrison says he believes Sky are the only professional team that offers dedicated one-to-one coaching to all its riders – they have four full-time coaches at present – and notes that other teams are looking to the British squad, whether it be warming down after stages, or sending whole detachments to train at altitude in Tenerife. "Everyone is now following our lead in things like warm-downs; more and more teams have coaching staff. I genuinely hope it's the start of a new era in cycling."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/ap ... s-team-sky
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/others ... -girl.html

What a load of cr*p. Wiggins assures them! Wiggins has pulled the wool over their eyes before. Besides you can analyse all the power data in the world. If your man cant keep up he cant keep up! Simples. And Wiggo aint keeping up with anyone either uphill or downhill. To be fair(and I really do admire him as a cyclist), when you put it into perspective he's not really a 3week GC man. He lacks the explosiveness of a Contador and isnt reliably strong enough to keep up or attack the best climbers in the world. He won a tdf that was tailor made for him. He won against a weakened field(no Contador, no Schleck) down and out Cadel etc. Wiggins is more like a slightly weaker Ullrich imo. The Giro with its steep ramps and technical nature was never going to suit him. Compare this Giro route with last years TDF and you can see the massive differences. Wiggo isnt winning this thing, and this whole race is looking like a repeat of the 2011 Vuelta. Wiggo needs to be riding for Uran at this stage, or at least let Uran ride his own race and not do domestique duty. Next year we'll see a different SKY team. Cant expect Froome, Uran etc to hang around, not with Wiggo there and all his demands.

HandyAndy

"In fact Brad was looking at his power numbers which were a bit weird when he crashed the other day."

Why was he looking at his power numbers when he was going downhill around a corner? Thats a lame excuse...

Pross

HandyAndy wrote:

And Wiggo aint keeping up with anyone either uphill or downhill.

Ironic that you started a post with what a load of crap, I assumed you were referring to the post you were quoting but it seems it was a preemptive comment on what was to follow highlighted by the above. I'm sure he not only kept up with but also beat three of the pre-race favourites yesterday (Gesink, Scarponi and Ryder) with Scarponi in particular being considered a climbing specialist and that was on the steeper type of climb he has admitted himself he struggles with. As for 'he's not really a 3 week man' ignoring the fact that he won the Tour that you try to gloss over with the 'tailor made route' 'no real contenders' argument which fails to take account of the dominance he displayed he also finished 3rd in the 2009 Tour and 3rd in the Vuelta over a highly unsuited course and just weeks after breaking a collarbone (let me guess, he had no real competition etc. etc.). The level of b***ocks talked on this forum never ceases to amaze me. I can understand that people don't like certain riders but trying to re-write history to give credence to that dislike is just stupid.

Ed-tron

HandyAndy wrote:

Chebrikov wrote:

...We also think some of the other teams might be using some sort of device which throws the SRM data off. Brad says his power meter numbers get stuck whenever Nibali attacks...

Where is this text from? This is a very strong statement, no? Very hard to believe

Richmond Racer

Ed-tron wrote:

HandyAndy wrote:

Chebrikov wrote:

...We also think some of the other teams might be using some sort of device which throws the SRM data off. Brad says his power meter numbers get stuck whenever Nibali attacks...

Where is this text from? This is a very strong statement, no? Very hard to believe

Well, colour-me-sceptical re that text in that post. What a load of c*ck someone has made up. Apart from anything else, does any troll really expect anyone to believe that Sky are claiming foul play and all kinds of things, without it being plastered all over the media...

Oh hang on, is this bloody Cyclismas up to their usual cr&p? :roll:

danlikesbikes

Ed-tron wrote:

HandyAndy wrote:

Chebrikov wrote:

...We also think some of the other teams might be using some sort of device which throws the SRM data off. Brad says his power meter numbers get stuck whenever Nibali attacks...

Where is this text from? This is a very strong statement, no? Very hard to believe

Yep would be interested to know & read where this came from

HandyAndy

Pross wrote:

HandyAndy wrote:

And Wiggo aint keeping up with anyone either uphill or downhill.

Ironic that you started a post with what a load of crap, I assumed you were referring to the post you were quoting but it seems it was a preemptive comment on what was to follow highlighted by the above. I'm sure he not only kept up with but also beat three of the pre-race favourites yesterday (Gesink, Scarponi and Ryder) with Scarponi in particular being considered a climbing specialist and that was on the steeper type of climb he has admitted himself he struggles with. As for 'he's not really a 3 week man' ignoring the fact that he won the Tour that you try to gloss over with the 'tailor made route' 'no real contenders' argument which fails to take account of the dominance he displayed he also finished 3rd in the 2009 Tour and 3rd in the Vuelta over a highly unsuited course and just weeks after breaking a collarbone (let me guess, he had no real competition etc. etc.). The level of b***ocks talked on this forum never ceases to amaze me. I can understand that people don't like certain riders but trying to re-write history to give credence to that dislike is just stupid.

I never said I dont like Wiggins, in fact I said I admire him. History has been written whether I like it or not! Just as Carlos Sastre won a TDf and Oscar Pereiro as well, so Wiggins won. He wont win 5, 3 like the great TDF riders because he isnt one. He IS an amazingly complete rider though and probably one of the most impressive riders in the last 10 years when you consider all he’s achieved. I also said he won a tour that suited his abilities to a t. It wasn’t your usual TDF route(very few uphill finishes) and some big names were missing, he was dominant and Sky were incredibly impressive(if incredibly boring). The Vuelta isnt the tour and almost never has the same quality field as the Giro or TDF.Besides, Froome should have won that if it wasn’t for Wiggins. Brad’s 3rd place in 2009 tdf was a breakthrough performance for sure, but there’ve been many riders who finished 2nd and 3rd in a GT and never won overall.
Well done to Wiggins to finish ahead of Scarponi and Gesink for a change in this race but in general his main rivals have been beating him uphill and downhill. As for Ryder, well most people finished ahead of him yesterday.

Thats the fantastic thing about the internet, we can all voice our opinion and I’m of the opinion that Wiggins(while being a phenomenal athlete) is NOT a classical grand tour rider. He’s riding a race that isnt ideally suited to him and in my opinion he’s not as fit. And I’m of the opinion he wont win another Grand tour.

Richmond Racer

Is a classical grand tour when a pianist tours Italy, France and Spain and plays Bach?