10 questions on grammar

DonDaddyD

One for the grammar gods:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-22512744

Throw up your scores and discuss.

bompington

10. What is there to discuss?

Kieran_Burns

bompington wrote:

10. What is there to discuss?

Your appalling grammar at using a single word in a sentence?

bompington

your appalling two!

rjsterry

Not as high a score as I would have hoped. Still, I'm largely self taught: beyond the use of commas and full stops, English grammar was very much out of fashion when I was at school. Not only was this a glaring omission in itself, but it also made learning other languages more difficult.

That said, I'm certainly on Michael Rosen's side of the argument, rather than Michael Gove. Grammar is of obvious importance, but just like vocabulary, it continues to evolve and its rules are not as rigid as some would like them to be. A famous one for you DDD: the Enterprise's motto uses a split infinitive - it should strictly be written "To go boldly..." but that sounds clumsy, and doesn't make any more sense.

notsoblue

Whoa, I really didn't do very well on that test at all.

drays

One that I've used in written communications (shown with workings)...

I would have
I'd have
I would've
I'd've

discuss...



I'm a promising pedant apparently...

jonginge

rjsterry wrote:

Not as high a score as I would have hoped. Still, I'm largely self taught: beyond the use of commas and full stops, English grammar was very much out of fashion when I was at school. Not only was this a glaring omission in itself, but it also made learning other languages more difficult.

That said, I'm certainly on Michael Rosen's side of the argument, rather than Michael Gove. Grammar is of obvious importance, but just like vocabulary, it continues to evolve and its rules are not as rigid as some would like them to be. A famous one for you DDD: the Enterprise's motto uses a split infinitive - it should strictly be written "To go boldly..." but that sounds clumsy, and doesn't make any more sense.

Hence the great bit of prose:
http://www.goodreads.com/quotes/204911- ... -do-mighty

Language is to be played with

TheStone

I got 7, but one was a guess.
None of that was ever taught when I was at school. The names of the grammar rules were never mentioned.

"build yourself a work, build yourself a word with 'ed'.. "

suzyb

I gave up at question 8 after only getting 2 out of those 8. I was never taught most of that stuff and what I was taught I've mostly forgotten.

So I'll just stick to using what sounds the most correct (which this sentence doesn't really do).

greg66_tri_v2.0

9. I was tripped up by the "other sibling" logic puzzle, masquerading as a grammar question.

Fuck. That means I dunced logic as well.

Cunty arse balls. <-oooh! Swear filter dodge!

rubertoe

I basically need to return to school for some English lessons.

rjsterry

Michael Rosen's blog, which contains some interesting thoughts on the subject.

http://michaelrosenblog.blogspot.co.uk/

Warning: a bit lefty

rjsterry

Greg66 Tri v2.0 wrote:

9. I was tripped up by the "other sibling" logic puzzle, masquerading as a grammar question.

fark. That means I dunced logic as well.

Cunty ars* balls. <-oooh! Swear filter dodge!

+1 on the other brother question. At best that sentence suggested that there might be another brother, but it was hardly conclusive. And question 6 was more historical trivia than grammar.

DonDaddyD

Until I see a person with a score lower than mine I am not saying.

I'm wiki-ing split infinitives.

I'm taking grammar lessons.

cyclingprop

10.

msmancunia

I got two. TWO. I have an A-level in English Language. I'm gutted.

But, like the rest, we didn't do grammar at school. I know a noun is a naming word, a verb is a doing word, and an adjective is a describing word. That's it. And like rjsterry said - it's really hard to learn other languages when you don't even know what a past participle is in English, never mind French.

DonDaddyD

msmancunia wrote:

I got two. TWO. I have an A-level in English Language. I'm gutted.

But, like the rest, we didn't do grammar at school. I know a noun is a naming word, a verb is a doing word, and an adjective is a describing word. That's it. And like rjsterry said - it's really hard to learn other languages when you don't even know what a past participle is in English, never mind French.

I done bettering than that, I did!

veronese68

Always read the question. I was starting to get irritated by the first question as I thought there were 2 correct answers depending on how many people live next door. Then I read the question properly and realised it clearly states "The man..." so only one. :oops: I'm always telling my kids to read the question properly when they are doing their homework.
I also fall into the bracket that was taught very little grammar, but think it's important so am slightly ashamed.

rick_chasey

A lot of this is taught when learning foreign languages.

Grammar changes over time anyway. Not sure quite why it's the education holy grail.

CiB

10, but the sibling question was a lucky stab. Do I win £5?

DonDaddyD

Rick Chasey wrote:

A lot of this is taught when learning foreign languages.

Grammar changes over time anyway. Not sure quite why it's the education holy grail.

Its the educational holy grail because there is a clear generation of people who, if they didn't go to the right school, weren't taught the correct usage of grammar.

In truth the only thing that ever held my career back was my inability to command or grasp grammar.

veronese68

DonDaddyD wrote:

msmancunia wrote:

I got two. TWO. I have an A-level in English Language. I'm gutted.

But, like the rest, we didn't do grammar at school. I know a noun is a naming word, a verb is a doing word, and an adjective is a describing word. That's it. And like rjsterry said - it's really hard to learn other languages when you don't even know what a past participle is in English, never mind French.

I done bettering than that, I did!

OK, I'll 'fess up then. I got 4, not good enough.
Me, fail English? That's unpossible.

graham.

I thunk I was going to be good at this!

4 out of 10, and I had to guess at some of those as I had no idea about which they were talking about!

Headhuunter

Greg66 Tri v2.0 wrote:

9. I was tripped up by the "other sibling" logic puzzle, masquerading as a grammar question.

fark. That means I dunced logic as well.

Cunty ars* balls. <-oooh! Swear filter dodge!

Same for me... 9/10 failed on the same question....

greg66_tri_v2.0

DonDaddyD wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

A lot of this is taught when learning foreign languages.

Grammar changes over time anyway. Not sure quite why it's the education holy grail.

Its the educational holy grail because there is a clear generation of people who, if they didn't go to the right school, weren't taught the correct usage of grammar.

In truth the only thing that ever held my career back was my inability to command or grasp grammar.

I went to what many would perceive to be a "right school". As Rick suggests, such grammar as I was taught came up in languages classes.

What I know now, I've picked up myself. It's not difficult. Eats Shoots and Leaves by Lynn Truss is a good start, and there are any number of places on the internet that will give you hints, lessons and rules in nothing flat.

Somewhat ironic that it is said that the internet makes communication easier and grammar less important, yet (courtesy of the internet) it has never been easier to learn good grammar.

Innit.

Headhuunter

msmancunia wrote:

I got two. TWO. I have an A-level in English Language. I'm gutted.

But, like the rest, we didn't do grammar at school. I know a noun is a naming word, a verb is a doing word, and an adjective is a describing word. That's it. And like rjsterry said - it's really hard to learn other languages when you don't even know what a past participle is in English, never mind French.

You're probably about the same vintage as me. I was the 2nd year ever to do GCSE and at that time there was little or not structured education of grammar rules. I went on to study French at A Level and degree and eventually knew a lot more about French grammar after than than English. I then went on to study a TEFL course before teaching English in Japan and part of the TEFL course involved some education in English grammar. I remember being shocked to find out that there were 2 present tenses in English... I'd just never thought about it before. Through trial and error and trying to learn English grammar rules before being embarrassed in front of my students I eventually managed to get 99% in the mandatory English grammar tests I was forced to undergo on a regular basis by my employer in Japan...

msmancunia

Yeah, similar age - I was in the first lot to do GCSEs. At my school a language wasn't compulsory, and because it clashed on the timetable with Music, which I wanted to do at GCSE as I played in an orchestra, I dropped it. My grammar is only passable now because I read so much - I've probably absorbed it via osmosis. I was pretty shocked that we didn't do much grammar in English language A-level, and I'm not sure how much that has changed since I studied it.

DonDaddyD

Greg66 Tri v2.0 wrote:

DonDaddyD wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

A lot of this is taught when learning foreign languages.

Grammar changes over time anyway. Not sure quite why it's the education holy grail.

I went to what many would perceive to be a "right school". As Rick suggests, such grammar as I was taught came up in languages classes.

Presumably the 'right school' would have delivered decent languagues lessons alongside English.

I have a bad shoulder the chip is heavy....

Headhuunter

Rick Chasey wrote:

A lot of this is taught when learning foreign languages.

Grammar changes over time anyway. Not sure quite why it's the education holy grail.

Whether grammar is the "holy grail" or not very much depends on what type of language learner you are. Some people thrive on simply learning chunks of language and phrases that they can wheel out and merge to make conversation with little or no understanding of the basic rules. When GCSE started, this was the aim, I think the theory was that babies/children don't learn language through learning grammar, they just learn phrases and expressions and the go on to use them. GCSE sought to replicate this supposedly natural way of learning.

My experience of learning French at GCSE meant at age 17 I was able to blabber away and make myself understood but my language was literally riddled with basic errors. I remember my A Level French teacher moaning that the introduction of GCSE meant that he literally had to go back over a lot of the basic stuff which O Level students would have known and led to the first accusations in the late 80s and early 90s that GCSE was a dumbed down qualification.

Some language learners thrive on learning the "rules" and structures around a language and then using these rules to "hang" the language from. I must admit, I'm quite an orally expressive person when it comes to languages and I love nothing more than simply learning to speak but once you know the rules and grammar, it gets so much easier.

For me, having learned English, French and Japanese grammar, I think a mix of the 2 is best. I believe GCSE education left me sorely lacking in my understanding of the structure of both English and French...

rjsterry

Another Michael Rosen blogpost

http://michaelrosenblog.blogspot.co.uk/2013/04/lies-about-spellingpunctuationgrammar.html

It's a bit of a read, but worth it, and debunks a few grammar myths.