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Rotor Q rings

Kev RussellKev Russell Posts: 10
edited May 2013 in Road buying advice
I have a Trek Madone 5.2 and I was thinking of fitting Rotor Q rings. The madone has a 52T- 39T Ultegra 6700.
I do not do time trials etc, just general rides.
Can someone advise as to what I need please?

Posts

  • GrillGrill Posts: 5,610
    Why would you fit Q's?
    English Cycles V3 | Cervelo P5 | Cervelo T4 | Trek Domane Koppenberg
  • gaddstergaddster Posts: 401
    Quality advice there..

    Anyway, assuming that you've got 130bcd cranks then get the q rings that fit them, but try to find some pictures of them on shimano cranks first, they don't look the best.
    ARTHUR
    "Hello oh great one"
    LARRY
    "Are you talking to me or my censored ?"
  • GrillGrill Posts: 5,610
    It's a valid question. I have Q's on my TT bike, but I don't really see the point of fitting them on any of my general use bikes due to the following:
    1) front shifting performance
    2) normal Q's are flimsy when compared to DA or even Ultegra rings so have to go with the aeros
    3) looks ugly as sin without a Rotor chainset
    4) no real benefit for general riding as it's unlikely you'll be putting out the same sort of power as during a TT where the smoothed action can be beneficial
    English Cycles V3 | Cervelo P5 | Cervelo T4 | Trek Domane Koppenberg
  • on-yer-bikeon-yer-bike Posts: 2,974
    Ive heard that its not good for your legs to go back forth between oval and round rings?
    Pegoretti
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  • GrillGrill Posts: 5,610
    Ive heard that its not good for your legs to go back forth between oval and round rings?

    You heard wrong.
    English Cycles V3 | Cervelo P5 | Cervelo T4 | Trek Domane Koppenberg
  • LegendLustLegendLust Posts: 1,022
    Grill wrote:
    It's a valid question. I have Q's on my TT bike, but I don't really see the point of fitting them on any of my general use bikes due to the following:
    1) front shifting performance
    2) normal Q's are flimsy when compared to DA or even Ultegra rings so have to go with the aeros
    3) looks ugly as sin without a Rotor chainset
    4) no real benefit for general riding as it's unlikely you'll be putting out the same sort of power as during a TT where the smoothed action can be beneficial

    Jeez you've got the Q ring concept all wrong. Not only that do you train right for TTs?
  • ugo.santaluciaugo.santalucia Posts: 27,691
    May I say that the all oval concept is a lot of bulxxhit?

    I have a colleague sport scientist who has researched the efficiency of pedalling action according to many different styles and the conclusion is that the most efficient is the one you are most comfortable with, as you have optimised over the years your muscles to work that way... whether that is circling, ovalling, stomping or pulling up and down... there is no good for all.

    To the OP, you can buy Q rings if you want to, it is just another way to spend some disposable income
  • GrillGrill Posts: 5,610
    LegendLust wrote:
    Grill wrote:
    It's a valid question. I have Q's on my TT bike, but I don't really see the point of fitting them on any of my general use bikes due to the following:
    1) front shifting performance
    2) normal Q's are flimsy when compared to DA or even Ultegra rings so have to go with the aeros
    3) looks ugly as sin without a Rotor chainset
    4) no real benefit for general riding as it's unlikely you'll be putting out the same sort of power as during a TT where the smoothed action can be beneficial

    Jeez you've got the Q ring concept all wrong. Not only that do you train right for TTs?

    I assume from your comments that you also ride Q-Rings?

    I only do "proper" TT training on the Turbo in the winter when I can't get out for a ride. My last training ride on my TT bike was a 93 miler last week through the Brecon Beacons. Considering most of my TTs are 100 mile, 12hr, and 24hr, I have no interest in upping my game for 10s and 25s.

    Do I recover quicker with Q-Rings? Nope. Am I faster with Q-Rings? Nope. Do I feel it's easier to hold a higher cadence at 260+ watts? Yup. Ultimately I got them to go with my PM (Rotor 3d P2M), but if I switched to round rings I highly doubt I'd see the slightest change in performance.

    Now tell me about your experience with them... :roll:
    English Cycles V3 | Cervelo P5 | Cervelo T4 | Trek Domane Koppenberg
  • LegendLustLegendLust Posts: 1,022
    Grill wrote:
    LegendLust wrote:
    Grill wrote:
    It's a valid question. I have Q's on my TT bike, but I don't really see the point of fitting them on any of my general use bikes due to the following:
    1) front shifting performance
    2) normal Q's are flimsy when compared to DA or even Ultegra rings so have to go with the aeros
    3) looks ugly as sin without a Rotor chainset
    4) no real benefit for general riding as it's unlikely you'll be putting out the same sort of power as during a TT where the smoothed action can be beneficial

    Jeez you've got the Q ring concept all wrong. Not only that do you train right for TTs?

    I assume from your comments that you also ride Q-Rings?

    I only do "proper" TT training on the Turbo in the winter when I can't get out for a ride. My last training ride on my TT bike was a 93 miler last week through the Brecon Beacons. Considering most of my TTs are 100 mile, 12hr, and 24hr, I have no interest in upping my game for 10s and 25s.

    Do I recover quicker with Q-Rings? Nope. Am I faster with Q-Rings? Nope. Do I feel it's easier to hold a higher cadence at 260+ watts? Yup. Ultimately I got them to go with my PM (Rotor 3d P2M), but if I switched to round rings I highly doubt I'd see the slightest change in performance.

    Now tell me about your experience with them... :roll:

    Why wouldn't you want to gain from the benefits of Q rings whenever you go out on your bike? Not just your TT bike. You've said yourself you find it easier to hold a higher cadence at 260+ watts, why not get that advantage on all your bikes and see incremental gains? And my experience of Q rings (along with other guys I know who use them) is the decreased fatigue and lactic build up when training hard - who wouldn't want that on all their bikes.

    I do find it strange that a lot of Q ring users only use them on their TT bike when there are advantages and benefits of having them on the bikes you do most of your riding/training on.
  • GrillGrill Posts: 5,610
    Because 260 watts is pretty much my limit. It's nice when I do a 10 or 25, but there is absolutely no way I put that out over the distances I like to do. It appears as though you've already forgotten about my first 3 points as to the reason I don't put them on all my bikes. Combine that with the fact that there are zero ACTUAL gains (260w @ 110rpm- when am I going to do that on any normal ride?) then why on earth would I spend all that cash outfitting my other rigs?

    Wiggo appears to be in the same boat as myself as he no longer uses them on the road...
    English Cycles V3 | Cervelo P5 | Cervelo T4 | Trek Domane Koppenberg
  • sopworthsopworth Posts: 191
    Grill wrote:
    Because 260 watts is pretty much my limit. It's nice when I do a 10 or 25, but there is absolutely no way I put that out over the distances I like to do. It appears as though you've already forgotten about my first 3 points as to the reason I don't put them on all my bikes. Combine that with the fact that there are zero ACTUAL gains (260w @ 110rpm- when am I going to do that on any normal ride?) then why on earth would I spend all that cash outfitting my other rigs?

    Wiggo appears to be in the same boat as myself as he no longer uses them on the road...


    Sorry for jumping in on this but I heard the commentator on a recent race that Wiggo was in, and he mentioned the fact that Shimano sponsor the SKY team and supply their groupsets. The new Dura Ace chainset isn't a standard 5 bolt spider so there can't be anything other than the DA rings fitted to it.

    As for the Q rings. I've had them on one of my bikes and after a winter of riding and training on my bike without the rings, I can honestly say that I prefer riding the bike with them on. Yes, it's a better bike with the Q rings on but I feel it does assist my pedal action and helps fatigue (I did my first Ironman without and the second with and my run after the bike with Q rings on was 40 mins faster - seriously).
  • sunburntkneessunburntknees Posts: 272
    I'm pretty sure I heard Wiggo say in an interview recently that he was glad he'd got rid of those "bloody stupid" Q Rings (or words to that effect).
  • GrillGrill Posts: 5,610
    sopworth wrote:
    Grill wrote:
    Because 260 watts is pretty much my limit. It's nice when I do a 10 or 25, but there is absolutely no way I put that out over the distances I like to do. It appears as though you've already forgotten about my first 3 points as to the reason I don't put them on all my bikes. Combine that with the fact that there are zero ACTUAL gains (260w @ 110rpm- when am I going to do that on any normal ride?) then why on earth would I spend all that cash outfitting my other rigs?

    Wiggo appears to be in the same boat as myself as he no longer uses them on the road...


    Sorry for jumping in on this but I heard the commentator on a recent race that Wiggo was in, and he mentioned the fact that Shimano sponsor the SKY team and supply their groupsets. The new Dura Ace chainset isn't a standard 5 bolt spider so there can't be anything other than the DA rings fitted to it.

    As for the Q rings. I've had them on one of my bikes and after a winter of riding and training on my bike without the rings, I can honestly say that I prefer riding the bike with them on. Yes, it's a better bike with the Q rings on but I feel it does assist my pedal action and helps fatigue (I did my first Ironman without and the second with and my run after the bike with Q rings on was 40 mins faster - seriously).

    Shimano sponsoring Sky is a non-issue as it's common and acceptable practice to use preferred equipment regardless of sponsor (Wiggo TTs on a fron Hed H3, and his climbing wheels are handbuilt). Osymetric not having a DA9000 BCD is also a moot point as they would either machine rings specifically for it (Shimano machine 7800 cranks for the 9000 SRM), continue using the 7900 chainset, or have someone like Fibre-Lyte make a set.

    In terms of picking up 40 minutes between IM's, that wasn't your Qs. There are so many other things such as course, weather, state of mind, etc. that have a real effect on results. I picked up 5 minutes between 10s that were 2 weeks apart a couple months ago. Equipment was identical. Welcome to racing.
    English Cycles V3 | Cervelo P5 | Cervelo T4 | Trek Domane Koppenberg
  • FatTedFatTed Posts: 1,205
    I'm pretty sure I heard Wiggo say in an interview recently that he was glad he'd got rid of those "bloody stupid" Q Rings (or words to that effect).

    I thought Wiggo used osymetric chainrings not "Q" rings
  • GrillGrill Posts: 5,610
    He does, but the concept is the same. Osymetrics are more ovalized like the Rotor QXL. The idea of the normal Q-Rings is to bridge the gap from round (ease of use) to oval (benefit of shape).
    English Cycles V3 | Cervelo P5 | Cervelo T4 | Trek Domane Koppenberg
  • FatTedFatTed Posts: 1,205
    Grill wrote:
    He does, but the concept is the same. Osymetrics are more ovalized like the Rotor QXL. The idea of the normal Q-Rings is to bridge the gap from round (ease of use) to oval (benefit of shape).

    According to Jean-Louis Talo Rotor Q rings and Osymetric rings are not the same, from this article
    http://cyclingtips.com.au/2012/09/osyme ... r-miracle/

    Seems likely to be Snake Oil
  • ugo.santaluciaugo.santalucia Posts: 27,691
    sopworth wrote:
    Yes, it's a better bike with the Q rings on but I feel it does assist my pedal action and helps fatigue (I did my first Ironman without and the second with and my run after the bike with Q rings on was 40 mins faster - seriously).

    Nonsense... your first Iron Man will always be slower than your second, simply because your mind will play safe or ply it badly, not knowing exactly what you are doing and how to distribute the effort... plus after the first you probably optimised your training, based on the experience of the first.
    Like for like (i.e. same course) I have never met anyone who did his PB on his first Iron Man...
  • GrillGrill Posts: 5,610
    FatTed wrote:
    Grill wrote:
    He does, but the concept is the same. Osymetrics are more ovalized like the Rotor QXL. The idea of the normal Q-Rings is to bridge the gap from round (ease of use) to oval (benefit of shape).

    According to Jean-Louis Talo Rotor Q rings and Osymetric rings are not the same, from this article
    http://cyclingtips.com.au/2012/09/osyme ... r-miracle/

    Seems likely to be Snake Oil

    Errr... He basically says that they're not the same because Q's are less pronounced, but this was before the QXL was released. Of course the engineer of the product is going to stick up for it. I never would have expected him to endorse a cheaper competitor that eats at his business.
    English Cycles V3 | Cervelo P5 | Cervelo T4 | Trek Domane Koppenberg
  • Kev RussellKev Russell Posts: 10
    Well,
    it looks like I have opened a can of worms.
    The reason Q rings were suggested is becouse I am an old git and my knees are hurting.

    Thanks for all the replies but nobody answered my question. WHAT WILL I NEED :D
    Best ring sizes? Chain Catcher etc?
    No such thing as a tail wind
  • GrillGrill Posts: 5,610
    If you're knees are hurting then it's best to spend the money on a proper bike fit that includes cleat alignment and footbeds. Go see Adrian at Cadence Sport.
    English Cycles V3 | Cervelo P5 | Cervelo T4 | Trek Domane Koppenberg
  • Kev RussellKev Russell Posts: 10
    Done that thanks
    Still doggy knees
  • GrillGrill Posts: 5,610
    You went to see Adrian and you're still having issues? If that's the case then I'd call him up or go see him again because ultimately there are no rings on the market that are going to fix bad knees.
    English Cycles V3 | Cervelo P5 | Cervelo T4 | Trek Domane Koppenberg
  • Kev RussellKev Russell Posts: 10
    No not Adrian,
    I went to Green wheels Peterborough.
    Where are Cadence sport?
  • GrillGrill Posts: 5,610
    It's in Staffordshire. http://www.cadencesport.co.uk/

    Not all fitters are created equally and depending on what the actual problem is with your knees it may take a combination of cleat alignment/float/shimming/footbeds/saddle + bar position/etc. for it to get sorted. Adrian is pretty much the best unless you can make it down under to see Steve Hogg.
    English Cycles V3 | Cervelo P5 | Cervelo T4 | Trek Domane Koppenberg
  • Percy VeraPercy Vera Posts: 1,103
    sopworth wrote:
    Grill wrote:
    Because 260 watts is pretty much my limit. It's nice when I do a 10 or 25, but there is absolutely no way I put that out over the distances I like to do. It appears as though you've already forgotten about my first 3 points as to the reason I don't put them on all my bikes. Combine that with the fact that there are zero ACTUAL gains (260w @ 110rpm- when am I going to do that on any normal ride?) then why on earth would I spend all that cash outfitting my other rigs?

    Wiggo appears to be in the same boat as myself as he no longer uses them on the road...


    Sorry for jumping in on this but I heard the commentator on a recent race that Wiggo was in, and he mentioned the fact that Shimano sponsor the SKY team and supply their groupsets. The new Dura Ace chainset isn't a standard 5 bolt spider so there can't be anything other than the DA rings fitted to it.

    As for the Q rings. I've had them on one of my bikes and after a winter of riding and training on my bike without the rings, I can honestly say that I prefer riding the bike with them on. Yes, it's a better bike with the Q rings on but I feel it does assist my pedal action and helps fatigue (I did my first Ironman without and the second with and my run after the bike with Q rings on was 40 mins faster - seriously).


    As Grill says, Shimano sponsoring Sky is a non-issue.
    Wiggins is actually using a 7900 Chainset with SRM in the Giro.

    I heard Wiggins in an interview recently saying he no longer uses those 'silly' rings.

    There was am article recently in the Comic, and the Sky/Team GB sport science guys were saying they can find no difference in the different rings.
  • Kev RussellKev Russell Posts: 10
    Is anyone going to answer my questionK
  • GrillGrill Posts: 5,610
    I will not on principle. Get a real fit bike and cleast fit first and then if you still want Q's I'll help you out, but I will not contribute to you wasting money buying snake oil to fix your knees.
    English Cycles V3 | Cervelo P5 | Cervelo T4 | Trek Domane Koppenberg
  • Percy VeraPercy Vera Posts: 1,103
    Is anyone going to answer my questionK


    This question?
    I have a Trek Madone 5.2 and I was thinking of fitting Rotor Q rings. The madone has a 52T- 39T Ultegra 6700.
    I do not do time trials etc, just general rides.
    Can someone advise as to what I need please?

    If so, you will need 53/39 or 52/39 130BCD Rotor Rings and 5 chain ring bolts as the Ultegra 6700 ones won't work.
  • Kev RussellKev Russell Posts: 10
    Thanks Percy.
    Point taken Grill, thanks
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