CO2...

charlie_potatoes

CiB wrote:

I bought a lifetime's supply last year - a box of 30 for about £18.

So what you are doing here is storing CO2 out of harms (the atmosphere) way. 30 x 16g = over a lb of CO2

Fair play 8)

imposter2.0

drlodge wrote:

I'm about 76kg, the tyres are rated to 120psi, would have thought 80-90 was a bit low. Each to their own though. I do find 110psi on the front rather harsh, hence a lower this tyre slightly (more weight on the rear)

What the tyres are 'rated' to is not relevant. The rating is a safety consideration, beyond which the manufacturer will not guarantee the tyre's integrity - it is not a recommendation to run it at that pressure.

Pituophis

goonz wrote:

Pituophis wrote:

went for a ride with a pal who got a puncture fairly early on the way out. He swapped tubes and used his CO2 in seconds. I was impressed.
On the way back he got another puncture. See above.
Unbelievably, about 10 miles from home, he got his third puncture! (Now lets be honest, this must be so rare as to be almost unheard of )
As he had run out of tubes, I gave him one of mine, and as he had also run out of canisters, I lent him my pump
He could have patched the tube, but he couldn't have blown it up.
I'm quite sure that there are plenty of pump based disaster stories out there too though.

Think he needs to change his tyres more than anything else...

As to the point of the topic, that's not completely relevant, though I totally agree with you
I was merely trying to point out that no method is fool proof!
Personally I've not had a single puncture on my road bike over the last 2000 miles or so, though I expect that to change, probably tonight

simon_masterson

Charlie Potatoes wrote:

Charlie Potatoes wrote:

Amazing!
This thread has got to the second page without anyone bleating on about the OP's Carbon Footprint

Simon Masterson wrote:

, but it's the environmental implications that matter most here.

Ahh here it is

Simon Masterson wrote:

If you don't race

And how does racing suddenly make it okay then? :?

Simon Masterson wrote:

it is an irresponsible waste to use CO2;

How is it a waste? We have loads of the stuff to start with and we have even more after using a canister?

What is the carbon footprint of a CO2 canister Simon?

I remember once reading that a packet of Walkers crisps had a carbon footprint of 60grams (from memory) although there was only 35 grams of (shyte) product inside (this was printed on the back of the pack).
So I am thinking that, in the overall scheme of things, CO2 pumps are using 2 fifths of F**k all.

Simon Masterson wrote:

Congratulations on being the problem.

Congratulations not having a clue what the problem is

It might not seem like much packaging (most likely) in landfill, it might not seem like much energy and emissions to produce and ship, but similar could be said of your car. The problem is cumulative. Many people cause the problem, and many can alleviate it.

DavidJB

I use a pump for the sheer reason when I get a puncture and I'm pumping my tyre up with my back to the road it looks like I'm viciously wanking at the roadside

jibberjim

Simon Masterson wrote:

It might not seem like much packaging (most likely) in landfill, it might not seem like much energy and emissions to produce and ship, but similar could be said of your car. The problem is cumulative. Many people cause the problem, and many can alleviate it.

A pump which cannot be recycled and comes with packaging that can't be recycled is almost certainly much less landfill (ie zero) than 100% Steel items which are extremely recycled compared to the plastic crap that is your pump.

cookeeemonster

I'm guessing it'll take a huge amount of energy to melt (i.e. recycle) steel than it would plastic?

DrKJM

Kerguelen wrote:

lotus49 wrote:

CookeeeMonster wrote:

Is it true you need to reinflate the tyre with 'proper air' once you get home anyway? Something to do with the CO2 leaking out of the inner tube faster than normal air would?

Not a reason to discount CO2 but it might be worth remembering if you do need to use it.

Yes it is true. The CO2 leaches out of the tyre and you will lose pressure quite quickly if you leave the CO2 in the tyre. You should deflate the tyre and reinflate when you get home.

And it's best to do this outside as CO2 is an asphyxiant.

Diluting the volume of a 100psi 23mm tyre into a 15 psi room? Not even enough to raise your breathing rate. Deflate away, indoors or out.


What's the mechanism of the CO2 leaching though? The molecule is bigger than N2 so it ain't size. Helium will leach out owing to the small size of the atom but i can't see how carbon dioxide gets out. Hijacked thread apologies but does anyone know?

g00se

DrKJM wrote:

What's the mechanism of the CO2 leaching though? The molecule is bigger than N2 so it ain't size. Helium will leach out owing to the small size of the atom but i can't see how carbon dioxide gets out. Hijacked thread apologies but does anyone know?

some info here:

http://velonews.competitor.com/2009/02/ ... ames_87175

Seems CO2 in soluble in Butyl rubber.

DrKJM

g00se wrote:

DrKJM wrote:

What's the mechanism of the CO2 leaching though? The molecule is bigger than N2 so it ain't size. Helium will leach out owing to the small size of the atom but i can't see how carbon dioxide gets out. Hijacked thread apologies but does anyone know?

some info here:

http://velonews.competitor.com/2009/02/ ... ames_87175

Seems CO2 in soluble in Butyl rubber.

Thanks. That would have bugged me.

simon_masterson

jibberjim wrote:

Simon Masterson wrote:

It might not seem like much packaging (most likely) in landfill, it might not seem like much energy and emissions to produce and ship, but similar could be said of your car. The problem is cumulative. Many people cause the problem, and many can alleviate it.

A pump which cannot be recycled and comes with packaging that can't be recycled is almost certainly much less landfill (ie zero) than 100% Steel items which are extremely recycled compared to the plastic crap that is your pump.

You presuppose that the canisters are made from recycled metal (which I doubt), and that the user will recycle (which I also doubt). I have every reason to believe that my - also metal - HPX will last as long as every other; it is an industry standard for a reason. It's a pump; there's little enough to go wrong as it is, and the parts are replaceable and accessible for maintenance. It even came with minimal packaging, if I recall...

AchillesLeftKnee

Simon Masterson wrote:

You presuppose that the canisters are made from recycled metal (which I doubt), and that the user will recycle (which I also doubt). I have every reason to believe that my - also metal - HPX will last as long as every other; it is an industry standard for a reason. It's a pump; there's little enough to go wrong as it is, and the parts are replaceable and accessible for maintenance. It even came with minimal packaging, if I recall...

...and then a few people take the bus into town at the weekend, have a couple of pints, and the whole point is rendered absolutely moot.

drlodge

The amount of waste in a CO2 cannister or pump is miniscule compared to the total waste we as human beings create living our lives. What about our bike and car tyres for heaven's sake? Food packaging? Mountains of waste I see coming out of shops and restaurants?

slowbike

There are things to save CO2 from - a bike pump is such a small contributor that the occasional use isn't worth much worry. Perhaps you should be more worried if that's all ppl ever used - at home as well as on the road.

I bet you release more CO2 from fizzy drinks and beers than you would a CO2 inflater ...

simon_masterson

drlodge wrote:

The amount of waste in a CO2 cannister or pump is miniscule compared to the total waste we as human beings create living our lives. What about our bike and car tyres for heaven's sake? Food packaging? Mountains of waste I see coming out of shops and restaurants?

Those might be much larger concerns, but the smaller ones matter as well; if everyone who uses CO2 unnecessarily stopped doing so, the impact would be tangible. It's a question of attitude as well; if you're inclined to be wasteful in small ways I fully expect you to be slovenly in other larger ones. This really isn't any better than throwing your gel wrappers into the hedge.

ednino

I couldn't agree more

hate carrying a pump & hate using a pump. I've got a quality track pump & carry Co2 with me. New tube, quick blast - done

its simple, fast & light. Those that think its expensive must get a puncture every ride

drlodge

Simon Masterson wrote:

Those might be much larger concerns, but the smaller ones matter as well; if everyone who uses CO2 unnecessarily stopped doing so, the impact would be tangible. It's a question of attitude as well; if you're inclined to be wasteful in small ways I fully expect you to be slovenly in other larger ones. This really isn't any better than throwing your gel wrappers into the hedge.

Why are you banging on about the waste involved in using a CO2 canister once every few months, when alot of people I know simply throw away their inner tube if it punctures? There are a lot bigger fish to fry.

This needs to be taken in context.

jibberjim

Simon Masterson wrote:

Those might be much larger concerns, but the smaller ones matter as well; if everyone who uses CO2 unnecessarily topped doing so, the impact would be tangible.

Except you've failed to even identify that CO2 has any impact at all over a pump - your claim that CO2 users won't recycle is irrelevant, since people who won't even recycle steel (universallly recycled in the UK) are certainly not going to do anything else.

I guess you mistakenly thought CO2 from a cannister itself was a greenhouse gas problem and are now stuck trying to defend your position to not lose too much face... even though it's ludicrous.

AchillesLeftKnee

Simon Masterson wrote:

Those might be much larger concerns, but the smaller ones matter as well; if everyone who uses CO2 unnecessarily stopped doing so, the impact would be tangible. It's a question of attitude as well; if you're inclined to be wasteful in small ways I fully expect you to be slovenly in other larger ones. This really isn't any better than throwing your gel wrappers into the hedge.

Technically, yes. However, it would still pale into insignificance compared to the additional fuel used by motorists on essential journeys as they accelerate again after passing cyclists on non-essential journeys.

I don't use disposable carrier bags. However, the morally unimpeachable bus I held up briefly on Holmbury Hill last night will have wasted enough diesel accelerating past me to negate a few weeks worth bringing my own bag to the supermarket. Wasn't really all that green of me, was it...

Oh, the joys of environmental pedantry.

charlie_potatoes

Simon Masterson wrote:

drlodge wrote:

The amount of waste in a CO2 cannister or pump is miniscule compared to the total waste we as human beings create living our lives. What about our bike and car tyres for heaven's sake? Food packaging? Mountains of waste I see coming out of shops and restaurants?

Those might be much larger concerns, but the smaller ones matter as well; if everyone who uses CO2 unnecessarily stopped doing so, the impact would be tangible. It's a question of attitude as well; if you're inclined to be wasteful in small ways I fully expect you to be slovenly in other larger ones. This really isn't any better than throwing your gel wrappers into the hedge.

FFS Simon just be a man and admit you are wrong.

g00se

But how far can you go? How many times should you patch a tube before you buy a new one? Saying the use of CO2 is wasteful but still using new tubes with an old trusty pump is a greater use of resources. Butyl or latex?

To an extreme, have you abandoned the trusty clinchers to go tubeless? Do you buy the rubber from sources you know are more sustainable and shipped locally rather than from abroad?

Castigating the use of CO2 to such a degree does hold the mirror up to yourself. Especially if those using CO2 believe they are concerned with the environment as much as you. Whether right or wrong.

charlie_potatoes

It's no different to opening a can of beans as I see it.
Some people will recycle the can and some won't.

I suspect that the % of people on this forum that recycle is higher than that of the general population?

@Simon
You have posted a lot of interesting and good stuff on this forum but you are not having your finest hour with this thread mate.

Anonymous

I'm gonna go pop a couple off now just for the hell of it :evil:

Hey, I might patch an old tube (I knew they would come in handy one day ) then just inflate until it goes BANG :twisted:

Tc1993

I'm new to this and have recently well and truly got the cycling bug.

Until the past week I have carried a small frame pump, I had my first puncture last week and the pump was fairly useless. It got the tyre pumped up but no really enough to enjoy the rest of my ride. Does the CO2 get the psi above the 100 mark?

Also after my last ride being in the sun, I think the extra bottle cage would come in handy

Anonymous

You should be able to put the pump mount under the bottle holder and still have two bottles ;-)
If not just stick it in your jersey pocket.

Yes, the Co2 will get you up to the correct pressure and that is the main reason I use them.

simon_masterson

drlodge wrote:

Simon Masterson wrote:

Those might be much larger concerns, but the smaller ones matter as well; if everyone who uses CO2 unnecessarily stopped doing so, the impact would be tangible. It's a question of attitude as well; if you're inclined to be wasteful in small ways I fully expect you to be slovenly in other larger ones. This really isn't any better than throwing your gel wrappers into the hedge.

Why are you banging on about the waste involved in using a CO2 canister once every few months, when alot of people I know simply throw away their inner tube if it punctures? There are a lot bigger fish to fry.

This needs to be taken in context.

'There are bigger problems' may be a wonderful excuse, but that's exactly what it is. If anything, it matters particularly, because it's such an easy change to make. If you buy a decent pump, you'll never need CO2.

jibberjim wrote:

Simon Masterson wrote:

Those might be much larger concerns, but the smaller ones matter as well; if everyone who uses CO2 unnecessarily topped doing so, the impact would be tangible.

Except you've failed to even identify that CO2 has any impact at all over a pump - your claim that CO2 users won't recycle is irrelevant, since people who won't even recycle steel (universallly recycled in the UK) are certainly not going to do anything else.

I guess you mistakenly thought CO2 from a cannister itself was a greenhouse gas problem and are now stuck trying to defend your position to not lose too much face... even though it's ludicrous.

So throughout production, export and disposal, cartridged CO2 has no environmental impact whatsoever? If fewer people used it, or those people used less of it (eg. only used it for racing), less would end up in landfill, less would be recycled and eventually, less might be produced and exported. That the consumer that uses it unnecessarily and/or throws it in landfill when he does is remiss in other respects is relevant, but not the point - I can't think of anyone who has adapted their lifestyle to be more ecological in major respects who pointedly ignores smaller ones.

And of course a good pump can easily last decades. Even if we calculate a number of years that must be elapsed before the purchase is effectively offset in ecological terms, anyone who uses CO2 probably has a pump anyway...

AchillesLeftKnee wrote:

[...] Oh, the joys of environmental pedantry.

But which is better: environmental pedantry or mindlessly destructive apathetic laziness?

g00se wrote:

Castigating the use of CO2 to such a degree does hold the mirror up to yourself. Especially if those using CO2 believe they are concerned with the environment as much as you. Whether right or wrong.

Of course it does. Theoretically - particularly from a wider ethical perspective - latex tubes have the potential to be the more favourable option given the possibility for fairly traded rubber to be used (though I can't imagine Fairtrade inner tubes for the racing cyclist existing just yet), but some would say that they don't last as long. Personally I've never worried that much about how many patches are on the tube, but I run 27x1 1/4" and 700x35 at 80psi. There are certainly a few on my main rear tube (some of them are self-adhesive too and have been there for over a year now, which proves they can last), but I haven't touched it in a year, as I haven't had a single puncture since putting on Gatorskins last May; for me that's the ultimate measure.

lotus49

There is an environmental impact of almost everything we do but the impact of the use of CO2 is so tiny that the attention of anyone caring about the environment would be better directed almost anywhere else.

Added to which, cycling is a pretty environmentally friendly activity so I am not going to let my use of CO2 weigh too heavily on my mind.

AchillesLeftKnee

Simon Masterson wrote:

AchillesLeftKnee wrote:

[...] Oh, the joys of environmental pedantry.

But which is better: environmental pedantry or mindlessly destructive apathetic laziness?

Sorry, but to describe the use of a few tiny CO2 canisters as "mindlessly destructive" absolutely absurd. The resources involved are totally trivial, and they're used in small numbers by a small element of a small community. Yes, sure, technically they're "a waste", but the scale of that waste is so infinitesimally small that getting hot under the collar about it is bonkers. The chances are each one has about the same environmental impact as a can of beer (beer cans having less impact than the canisters, but beer production having a far greater impact than CO2 production), so if you really think these things are a menace, I would suggest picketing your local off-license.

Having said all that, I don't use the things myself, probably because coming from MTB where punctures are a much more regular event, the thought of only having a certain number of shots at filling a tyre doesn't fill me with much confidence. Consequently, I just take a mini-pump with me. It's slower, but unless my arms falls off, it's always gonna work.

TakeTurns

I don't know how all you CO2 users manage to sleep at night.... :roll:

R0B75

Wow, this turned into a bit of an argument. :oops:

I didn't realise that by using CO2 I'm killing children. I'm going to hell. :twisted: :roll: