Touring gear compatibility

crooks

Hi all,

I'm planning to build a touring bike based on the Paul Hewitt Cheviot SE frame. I'm under no illusions that Paul could supply a beautiful fully built bike but I fancy the experience of selecting components and building it myself. The area of planning that's causing me most frustration at the moment is gear compatibility. I'd like to go with Shimano kit, partly because I like it but also because I already have the various tools to fit and maintain it.

As a touring bike, one of my goals is to achieve the widest possible gear range. I know that for road bikes, cadence is an important consideration and close ratios preferred but for my needs, bigger gaps between gears isn't really an issue. I'd like to go with Bar-end shifters (Dura Ace 7900) and I believe these are compatible with Shimano MTB and Road 10-speed components. The XT-M771-SGS sounds like a good choice of rear derailleur, although is does state a max front chainwheel difference of only 18 teeth. Most triples exceed that by at least 2 teeth but various articles convince me this isn't really an issue. Shimano used to do a Front XT chainset (FC-M771-K) that had slightly larger gears (48-36-26) than the standard MTB but it's discontinued and the new range doesn't appear to have that option. I'm considering the 105 and Ultegra triple chainsets as alternatives. The choice of rear cassette will probably come down to 11-32, 11-34 or 11-36 depending on the largest tooth difference possible after the choice of chainset is made.

It might sound like I have this all worked out but I'd love to hear opinions from other people who have already been through a similar component matching exercise.

Steve

borisface

You're right to be concerned about gearing on a touring bike. However are you ever likely to use an 11 sprocket in reality in conjunction with a road chainset? You're much better off concentrating on the lowest gear you could sensibly use, especially if touring loaded - so going for a 32, 34 or 36 would be wise, rather than the bigger end. I know MTB cassettes tend to come with an 11 as standard but what that means is that you can have a smaller biggest ring on the front i.e. a 44 or 42. Both 42x11 and 44x11 will give you a gear ratio of over 100 inches which for touring and in fact for most riding is more than adequate. So perhaps have a look at an mtb chainset. This could then be used in conjunction with pretty much any of the shimano MTB derailleurs but not alas the newer ones.

Regarding your specific query regarding an XT derailleur - have a look or perhaps stick a post on the CTC website. It seems odd that they specify an 18 tooth capacity as most triples are nowadays 20 tooth. One final thing why the bar end shifters rather than STIs. STIs are much better having used both.

simon_masterson

How 'loaded' are you going to be? I concur with the above post: the lowest is much more important than the highest here. 30x36 is a massive gear, but if you were going with two sets of panniers, bar bag and saddlebag, you could easily need it...

gpreeves

borisface wrote:

One final thing why the bar end shifters rather than STIs. STIs are much better having used both.

I can't speak for the OP, but the reason most tourers would cite for preferring bar ends is that they're more reliable and easier to fix (can be used in friction and index mode) if something goes wrong when you're miles away from a bike shop.

crooks

Hi all,

Thanks for all your comments. To answer the question, "How loaded", most of the time I expect to be lightly loaded. Short trips to the local supermarket for shopping and two night credit card tours. I am planning the occasional longer trip, such as a week touring France (some on canal paths) and (hopefully) JOGLE next year. These will involve carrying camping gear. My hope is to build a bike suitable for all these occasions.

The selection of bar-end shifters came about because it enables brakes to be selected without consideration for their compatibility with STI shifters. In addition to that, research of other articles about touring bikes suggest they are the preferred option for reliability. I have STI shifters on other bikes and do like them so I wouldn't rule them out as an option.

Low gears are certainly the priority over high but I wouldn't want to take this to such an extreme that I'm pedalling flat-out on level. If Shimano did a 48-36-26 chainset I think I'd pick that as a starting point and pair it with the biggest cassette I could.

Hoopdriver

borisface wrote:

You're right to be concerned about gearing on a touring bike. However are you ever likely to use an 11 sprocket in reality in conjunction with a road chainset? You're much better off concentrating on the lowest gear you could sensibly use, especially if touring loaded - so going for a 32, 34 or 36 would be wise, rather than the bigger end. I know MTB cassettes tend to come with an 11 as standard but what that means is that you can have a smaller biggest ring on the front i.e. a 44 or 42. Both 42x11 and 44x11 will give you a gear ratio of over 100 inches which for touring and in fact for most riding is more than adequate. So perhaps have a look at an mtb chainset. This could then be used in conjunction with pretty much any of the shimano MTB derailleurs but not alas the newer ones.

Regarding your specific query regarding an XT derailleur - have a look or perhaps stick a post on the CTC website. It seems odd that they specify an 18 tooth capacity as most triples are nowadays 20 tooth. One final thing why the bar end shifters rather than STIs. STIs are much better having used both.

Bar end shifters are very, very simple - nothing can go wrong with them. You want that on a touring bike. If somethn does go wrong with STIs on th road yo can't repair them. Bar ends offer friction shifting as well. This is especially nice when shifting front derailleurs. You simply do not need indexed shifting up front. It is just one more thing to have to fiddle with.

I have toured all over the world and have always gone with bar ends. They work well, are reliable and very easy to use. And yes, they are compatible with anything.

John.T

The Shimano road triples will take a granny ring down to a 26 (74mm BCD Stronglight or TA) and still work with a road front mech. Using this with 50/40/30 chainset and a 12/28 (or 30) cassette will give you the low gears you seldom need without too much compromise on the others. You would probably get away with a 10sp Tiagra GS rear mech. There may be some slack chain issues on the granny/small combinations but you would never use them anyway. A bit of care with chain length would limit this.
This could be a cheaper option and would not have any compatibility issues.
Dura-ace 10sp bar end shifters seem to not have a friction option now. Mine don't and I think they are 7900s.

crooks

Hi all,

Think I'm making some progress in getting where I want to be on this subject. It appears my issues around gear components are resolved by using 9-Speed components instead of the 10-speed items I was researching. Using 9-Speed I like the following combinations:

Chainset: LX FC-M590 48-36-26
Front Derailleur: LX FD-M590
Read Derailleur: RD-M591 SGS
Cassette: HG61 11-34

This gives me a high gear of about 116 inches and a low of 20 inches. The M591 derailleur seems a perfect match for the max tooth difference (45T) and the front tooth difference (22T).

Unfortunately going 9-speed significantly reduces the choice of shifter options. The Dura-Ace 7700 Bar-End shifters appear compatible (not sure about indexing). As for STI, I'm not sure Shimano even make 9-Speed STI Triple levers any more.

Hoopdriver

crooks wrote:

Hi all,

Think I'm making some progress in getting where I want to be on this subject. It appears my issues around gear components are resolved by using 9-Speed components instead of the 10-speed items I was researching. Using 9-Speed I like the following combinations:

Chainset: LX FC-M590 48-36-26
Front Derailleur: LX FD-M590
Read Derailleur: RD-M591 SGS
Cassette: HG61 11-34

This gives me a high gear of about 116 inches and a low of 20 inches. The M591 derailleur seems a perfect match for the max tooth difference (45T) and the front tooth difference (22T).

Unfortunately going 9-speed significantly reduces the choice of shifter options. The Dura-Ace 7700 Bar-End shifters appear compatible (not sure about indexing). As for STI, I'm not sure Shimano even make 9-Speed STI Triple levers any more.

I built up a bespoke tourer a couple of years ago and I deliberately went for 9 speed, preferring the sturdier nine-speed chain for touring. As I said in an earlier post, I very much prefer bar ends on a touring bike for simplicity and reliability reasons. My gearing is similar to yours - identical in front, but for the rear I went with 12-27 since this particular tourer was to be more for lightweight touring. On my expedition bike, also a nine speed, I have 46-36-24 and 11-32

crooks

Hoopdriver wrote:

I built up a bespoke tourer a couple of years ago and I deliberately went for 9 speed, preferring the sturdier nine-speed chain for touring. As I said in an earlier post, I very much prefer bar ends on a touring bike for simplicity and reliability reasons. My gearing is similar to yours - identical in front, but for the rear I went with 12-27 since this particular tourer was to be more for lightweight touring. On my expedition bike, also a nine speed, I have 46-36-24 and 11-32

Hi Hoopdriver,

Thanks for your feedback. I'm pretty convinced now that I will go with the Bar-End shifters. It's certainly a much more cost effective option to buy and try them first instead of STI. Having just spent some time reading your facinating website I feel reassured about my gearing choices. If it's good enough for the miles you've done, it will certainly fulfil my needs!

gpreeves

crooks wrote:

Hoopdriver wrote:

Having just spent some time reading your facinating website:D

Hoopdriver, I feel I should second this sentiment. I've only been on your site for half an hour so far, but can easily see myself spending hours reading it over the coming weeks.