Changes to Whites Level Trail

paul.skibum
paul.skibum Posts: 4,068
edited June 2013 in Routes
Rode W2 last weekend for the first time in a couple of years. White's final descent and initial climb has changed around a fair bit due to forestry.

I thought the descent to the valley was poor - seemed to pander to big travel bikes and high speed - used to love the old rocky step fest of the old descent. The old descent as a climb was bad too - on the return leg of the W2 it was pretty hard work with some almost impassable steps up. The fireroad and then greasy grass climb after were also a step back from the original goat track.

Anyone know the long term goal at Whites? Anyone else got any thoughts on the changes? Seems a step back since the forestry and I thought these trails were broadly supposed to be in areas that forestry were going to leave untouched?
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Comments

  • benpinnick
    benpinnick Posts: 4,148
    I totally agree with you - this was my take on it too. I think they'd be better to route the down via the old down, and the up via the new one.
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  • clamps81
    clamps81 Posts: 315
    Checking it out on Monday with any luck. Which bit has changed on the final bit? The rocky stuff or the rolling, nearly flat stuff right at the end?
    Nukeproof Mega AM


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  • b45her
    b45her Posts: 147
    i quite liked the changes, the new descent is super fast and i quite enjoyed the climb, the steep grassy part may be a pain in the wet though.
    certainly prefer it to the evil drag up to the first hairpin on the old climb.
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  • rockmonkeysc
    rockmonkeysc Posts: 14,774
    I always thought Whites and Y Wal were both incredibly dull. Too smooth, too flowing, the table jumps are badly built and too small for the speed you can carry in to them and it's just the same features all the way through with nothing to keep it interesting. To be honest I thought the climb was the best bit. The only part of the trail to deserve the red grading was the black graded section, the rest is blue at most.
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  • chaffordred
    chaffordred Posts: 131
    A group of us are due to do this next weekend. Are you saying the goat track climb from the visitor centre is closed? That whites level climb was my favourite part :cry:

    Also, a bit of advice. I have had my arm in cast for 2 weeks (broken arm-radius), but I can still ride, just not downhill. Can you get back to the trail centre via fire roads?
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  • Stanners79
    Stanners79 Posts: 81
    Yes you can get back to the centre by road, before the final descent turn right and head down the fire road and this will bring you down into Abercregan and you can join the cycle path back up to the ponds after about a 1/2 to 3/4 of a mile on the road.

    From what I remember of the darkside descent, there were some large rock steps down, I'm guessing these now have to be climbed?
    Orange P7 2007
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  • paul.skibum
    paul.skibum Posts: 4,068
    Yep the climb out of Glyncorrig (spelling?) is now rerouted up darkside to a fireroad and then 2 km up a fire road and then up to the summit via a grassy muddy track which emerges by the top of the old original climb.

    I don't agree with Bluechair about the wall and whites - the wall for me is a fabulous trail - I only ride it on my 100mm hardtail and let it all hang out - I love the descents they are such a blast for out of the saddle belting along, throw a bit of air in with those side hill drops and it gets pretty focussing at speed. Whites was less well put together for me - some parts are fun and some less so but as a whole it was pretty enjoyable and sufficiently different to my local riding to warrant the occassional trips.

    I am interested to see what happens with the new revised Penhydd when it opens later in summer but its being built on clear felled forestry land so I am hoping it doesnt replicate what was done to whites.

    Interesting aside - didn't see a single 29er either at Afan or Cym Carn over the weekend.
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  • chaffordred
    chaffordred Posts: 131
    Thanks Stanners79

    paul.skibum would you say it was still worth going over to Glyncorrwg and riding whites level from the trail centre?
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  • Penylope
    Penylope Posts: 320
    I must admit, we rode Whites a week ago Sunday up the ‘new’ climb, it wasn’t worth the trip IMO.
    The climb up the descent is ‘interesting’ to say the least, with some of the steps all but un-rideable, then a fire road slog followed by the climb up the grassy bank was pretty un-inspiring. The only good thing about the final bit of the climb was that it brings you out right next to the black route start point, so we went that way for a change.
    The final descent back down again was quite poor as well IMO, why they have cut this new trail section and made it a descent I do not know, when they could have just made it the new climb up to the fire road and left the original descent alone (as the trail effectively does a figure 8 on the fire road now).
    One of the best parts was the climb up from the visitors center, but now the forestry work is on (and with the current trail route changes in effect) I don’t think we will be back for a while. I understand that it is a working forest and that these works are necessary, so hopefully when they are complete the trail will be returned back to its former glory.
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  • Thewaylander
    Thewaylander Posts: 8,594
    hmm interesting, though i always liked the climb up whites on the whole i thought the decents were far to pedally and boring trying to make way to much out of the hight they had, and i know a lot of locals who felt the same.

    So i might have to pop down and have a go at that as it sounds all right now.
  • paul.skibum
    paul.skibum Posts: 4,068
    chaffordred wrote:
    Thanks Stanners79

    paul.skibum would you say it was still worth going over to Glyncorrwg and riding whites level from the trail centre?

    Depends! We rode Cwym Carn the day before and were doing the W2 on Saturday and for most of us it was our first proper ride of the summer - as a result my legs were not in the best shape they have been - I think the initial climb as it is now is entirely do-able with fresh legs and a good run at it and once you are in the trees might acvtually remain an interesting challenge.

    I agree with some of the comments on the descents although I still think the top section (name?) and energy are pretty fun. The boardwalk bit is a change from the norm and the section after is fast and fun. The final descent as I say I didn't like but possibly on the right bike and with better limbs under me I could have had a blast down it - I had my seat too high for sure last time. I think the main issue with the final descent is that it is most definitely a high speed track but with a lot of consequences if you go to fast - a lot of the descents at Afan and Glyn are consequencial for missing a corner but they tend to allow you to build up to riding them fast where as the new descent to me was just fast.

    A bad bike handler or someone using their brakes in the wrong way could easily come a croper big time up there!
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  • bennett_346
    bennett_346 Posts: 5,029
    The Wall is the most featureless, boring and overly narrow trail in Britain. Can't see the hype personally.

    There's literally not a single trail feature/jump on it.
  • Thewaylander
    Thewaylander Posts: 8,594
    bennett_346 wrote:
    The Wall is the most featureless, boring and overly narrow trail in Britain. Can't see the hype personally.

    There's literally not a single trail feature/jump on it.

    But is super fast flowy and not that silly berms and jumps crap that is so popular now. it's a great trail and so many points make it better than whites.
  • welshkev
    welshkev Posts: 9,690
    bennett_346 wrote:
    The Wall is the most featureless, boring and overly narrow trail in Britain. Can't see the hype personally.

    There's literally not a single trail feature/jump on it.

    but that's the point....the singletrack is superb
  • paul.skibum
    paul.skibum Posts: 4,068
    The wall is singletrack - its great for that - I dont want berms and jumps (there are plenty of features such as small drops, slabs and the odd side trail hit along with the bus stops and so on) - compared to the black at cwm carn with the badly built jumps and worn out tired berms I reckon the wall has longevity of fun with minimal trail maintenance.
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  • concorde
    concorde Posts: 1,008
    The new descent on whites is shit and dangerous! Wall is shit, break bumps galore. Not much riding over Afan at the moment if you ask me. i do whites if i go and it's only to do Windy Point which is an awesome section.
  • Thewaylander
    Thewaylander Posts: 8,594
    I actually liked the new decent fast, loose and sketchy and nothing wrong with the wall at the moment was riding fast and smooth...

    Not sure why people seem to be afraid of a little rough stuff...
  • ichabod
    ichabod Posts: 78
    Did Whites over the weekend - absolutely bonkers that they now make you climb the old final down and have replaced it with a boring, fast motorway type downhill above it. I remember the original being amazing - loads of slabs, drops and twists. It was gutting to have to pedal up all of these fun features only to come back down such a dull decent. Whoever did this is an idiot.. unbelievable!
  • Thewaylander
    Thewaylander Posts: 8,594
    it's funny how people see the same thing so differently it was so slow and dull, getting the speed for the drops was a nightmare without just plopping off them.. so much pedaling on a down.. swings and roundabouts. but it was done because of the forestry clearing on the other side which will be happening for a while.
  • ichabod
    ichabod Posts: 78
    What are the longer term plans? Will they reopen the original and have two alternative routes?
  • The Northern Monkey
    The Northern Monkey Posts: 19,174
    Can't believe people are knocking Y Wall!

    Rode it on the weekend on the big bouncer, brilliant bit of trail! Especially with the bike park just before the last descent!
    @Rockmonkey - Y Wall is far from smooth...
    @bennett_346 - Too narrow? Are you mad?!

    Looking forward to riding the new Whytes route when the xc bike is done...
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  • ichabod
    ichabod Posts: 78
    I wouldn't call Y Wall exactly smooth either as far as trail centers go.. in fact I think it is one of the rockiest in Wales?
  • Thewaylander
    Thewaylander Posts: 8,594
    ichabod wrote:
    I wouldn't call Y Wall exactly smooth either as far as trail centers go.. in fact I think it is one of the rockiest in Wales?

    Wouldn't go that far... :roll:
  • DEZZA53
    DEZZA53 Posts: 17
    Rode the Wall yesterday for the first time in ages, a nice reminder of what a fab trail it really is, there is no need to knock it.
    Great singletrack with some small fireroad climbs, if you want berms and tabletops, stop off at the new bike park for a bit of fun.
  • concorde
    concorde Posts: 1,008
    The Wall isn't smooth at all. It's not very pleasent on a HT, less so than Whites. The Wall is badly washed away. Heard something about the soil over there washes away easily leaving the exposed rough rocks. Also when whites had all the diversions last year hardly anybody was riding it as it was really crap so everybody was doing The Wall more and it got abused! I'd like The Wall more if it was given some TLC. Don't get me wrong I don't want smooth motorway trails but The Wall needs some TLC in places. Too much going on in Wales at the moment though. With Gethin being built and having a full time trail team the rest will go to shit. Hurry up and re-open Penhydd too!
  • Thewaylander
    Thewaylander Posts: 8,594
    It really isnt that rocky at all though no idea what people are on about :|
  • welshkev
    welshkev Posts: 9,690
    Concorde wrote:
    The Wall isn't smooth at all. It's not very pleasent on a HT, less so than Whites.

    huh? I ride everything except downhill days on my hardtail and in fact I even rode cwmcarn dh on my hardtail last week. the wall is fine on a hardtail :?
  • DEZZA53
    DEZZA53 Posts: 17
    i agree with Waylander, it's not rocky just a little rough in places, but this is what mtb'ing is about isn't it ?
  • welshkev
    welshkev Posts: 9,690
    DEZZA53 wrote:
    i agree with Waylander, it's not rocky just a little rough in places, but this is what mtb'ing is about isn't it ?

    exactly this!!

    i'm not saying everyone. but a lot of people go to places like llandegla or Fod and have this image in their heads of that's what mountain biking is. (there's nothing wrong with either of those places btw) but mountain biking is about hills and mountains and they're generally rough, rocky places :lol:
  • concorde
    concorde Posts: 1,008
    welshkev wrote:
    DEZZA53 wrote:
    i agree with Waylander, it's not rocky just a little rough in places, but this is what mtb'ing is about isn't it ?

    exactly this!!

    i'm not saying everyone. but a lot of people go to places like llandegla or Fod and have this image in their heads of that's what mountain biking is. (there's nothing wrong with either of those places btw) but mountain biking is about hills and mountains and they're generally rough, rocky places :lol:

    Don't mind it being rocky it's the ridiculous brake bumps that bother me more. They scrub so much of your speed off and you're not in control. Lots of it on The Wall. I ride my HT everywhere, Afan, Brechfa, Smilog, FoD, Afan Masts, Wyllie & Machen, Castell Coch and The Wall is the only place I finish and think what a shit trail because of the state of it.

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