MTB access rights
ditchit
Posts: 44
OK we all know the issues with access when it comes to footpaths. But, if youre off your bike and pushing while walking on the path is this legal? eg If theres a footpath which joins two bridleways together.
Are there any other areas of the hill we can legally ride apart from bridleways and greenlanes?
Where I ride in the Preselis theres an area of right to roam land with brown dotted line where you can see horses being ridden everyday of the year. Not a bridleway nor even a permissive bridleway, but a permissive footpath. I see horseriding off the beaten track here all the time.
Does this mean the landowner doesn't mind horses on this part of the hill? Will they tolerate MTB's? Another grey area. Myself, I will tend not to worry too much about where I ride on the hills where there is a right to roam, but wondering what the law states.
I hear people saying that where horses go we can go too, so heres the question, should I get in touch with the landowner to check or just ride here amongst the horseriders?
Are there any other areas of the hill we can legally ride apart from bridleways and greenlanes?
Where I ride in the Preselis theres an area of right to roam land with brown dotted line where you can see horses being ridden everyday of the year. Not a bridleway nor even a permissive bridleway, but a permissive footpath. I see horseriding off the beaten track here all the time.
Does this mean the landowner doesn't mind horses on this part of the hill? Will they tolerate MTB's? Another grey area. Myself, I will tend not to worry too much about where I ride on the hills where there is a right to roam, but wondering what the law states.
I hear people saying that where horses go we can go too, so heres the question, should I get in touch with the landowner to check or just ride here amongst the horseriders?
'Dont waste your time like an idiot on Facebook. Instead, visit an outdoor enthusiast forum and waste your time in style!' Mahatma Ghandi
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As far as I understand as soon as you are off your bike you are not a cyclist. So it should be fine.ditchit wrote:OK we all know the issues with access when it comes to footpaths. But, if youre off your bike and pushing while walking on the path is this legal? eg If theres a footpath which joins two bridleways together.0 -
It's been a couple of years since my involvement in anything to do with ROW (I was involved in certain disputes based on the NERC and CROW acts). The 'to the best of my knowledge' provisos apply!Yacoby wrote:
As far as I understand as soon as you are off your bike you are not a cyclist. So it should be fine.ditchit wrote:OK we all know the issues with access when it comes to footpaths. But, if youre off your bike and pushing while walking on the path is this legal? eg If theres a footpath which joins two bridleways together.
True story: the last time I looked, the law stated that you are not permitted to push a bike along a footpath. Sounds barmy (because it is), but there you go! Thankfully however, what the law implies and what actually happens is not the same thing. It's dumb law that if applied to it's fullest extent also prohibits wheel chairs, prams etc as well as unridden bicycles and unridden horses. Luckily, common-law practice seems to have over-ridden statute. I have the legal text in a box at home, so can't quote the relevent bits here and now, but it's one that the Anti's wheel out when they want a bit of leverage and are getting desperate. No ones going to bring you to task for pushing a bike - unless they're a c***, and sadly there is no cure that.
Right to roam does not apply to anything above walking, and even then, you may only enter the RTR area by the permitted, legal ROW - wander in from any old direction and you exclude yourself from the 'right to roam'. Also, the Forestry Commision have the power to suspend RTR at short notice it's (seven or fourteen days, IIRC) and pass rights of access over to third parties (logging companies, motorsport groups, the military etc). Notices to this effect will be placed at all legal entry points to the 'RTR' area.
Legally there's no such thing as a 'green lane'. In England and Wales we are legally entitled to ride on bridleways, BOATs, RUPPs (although most have now been reclassified), ORPAs, public roads, Restricted Byways and specific permissive ROW (trail centres, tow paths etc), subject to the usual rules about those ROW being open. Anything outside this and technically we require the land owners permission.
Don't worry about horses - they are a law unto themselves (literally). MTBs are a comparatively late addition to the country side so many laws (usually based on historics or traditions) that apply to horses don't apply to us (yet). Do not consider all equine groups our friends, either. Some are, some are not. And there are some in the horsey community that would like to see the country side freed of the scourge of motorized users, cyclists, flyers; in fact anyone who isn't rich enough to fund a fleet of ponies, or drive an Aston Martin. I digress.
Things is, the old adage about forgiveness being easier to seek than permission? It's true. And as long as you don't rock the boat, and the landowner seems happy, just keep riding courteously. As soon as you ask him for permission, things can get a bit technical and chances are no one wants the hassle. Including him. If you want to build jumps or proper trails - yes you will need to ask, but otherwise, why upset the staus quo?
At the end of the day, on a bike, the worst you can get collared for is trespass, and that only sticks if you've caused damage (hence no trail building without permsission). Actually, the worst you can do is give the rest of us a bad name, but because you're courteous and accept that we're not the most important thing on the hillside, I really don't think your setting a bad example. Carry on doing what you're doing, and enjoying it.
If you want a really good, reputable reference source of ROW legal stuff, this is actually the best you can buy:
http://www.ramblers.co.uk/rightsofwaybook/
It means givng the RA your hard-earned, but it can be worth it (I couldn't possibley condone the downloading of ripped PDFs of published material for free, from certain popular internet sites. No. That would be naughty).How would I write my own epitaph? With a crayon - I'm not allowed anything I can sharpen to a sustainable point.
Disclaimer: Opinions expressed herein are worth exactly what you paid for them.0 -
In other words, just ride, try not to annoy/kill too many people, and worry about it if/when someone moans. (Or pots you with their shotgun).I don't do smileys.
There is no secret ingredient - Kung Fu Panda
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There is a cracking footpath visible from the M62 as you pass by Hollingworth lake, you may or may not see a bike riding down it occasionaly.Advocate of disc brakes.0
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Aye, makes me glad I live in civilisation.Uncompromising extremist0
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Biking down Arthurs Seat is still a problem though...
But yeah. Living in Scotland is a godsend.0 -
there's been several thread posted about this.
where I live I ride pretty much where I want and always have done. politeness goes a long way
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I did get arrested for climbing there once - AFAIK it's still about the only place in the UK where rock climbing is actually illegal, as opposed to not allowed because of access etc.Yacoby wrote:Biking down Arthurs Seat is still a problem though...0 -
I have come across a part of the trans Pennine trail locally that goes through a farm and the owner isn't happy for people to ride bikes through it as a friend found out.
I don't think its a problem for people on bikes to ride down footpaths etc as long as you watch out for dog walkers etc and let people pass you and all that.0 -
I know this path very well, having first seen it from the motorway toohomers double wrote:There is a cracking footpath visible from the M62 as you pass by Hollingworth lake, you may or may not see a bike riding down it occasionaly. The view of the valley and the huge fly-over is a sight to behold. 0 -
It took me ages to find it, strained neck at 70(ish) mph isn't the best way to scope lines but a handy motorway jam on day allowed me to get get a better look.
That evening, I was there, "walking" down the footpath like a good un. It isn't in good shape at the moment as the wet weather has washed it out.Advocate of disc brakes.0 -
Are you pretty local there then? I used to live just off Scammonden dam, so those trails were my local haunts. There are some fantastic rides above Ripponden and Marsden too.0
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Yup, I live in Littleborough so about a mile and a bit away from Hollingowrth Lake. I've got some great riding about 500 yards out of the door in one direction and the pennines about a mile in the other.Advocate of disc brakes.0
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Ace. I'd have to do some little 16min drives to get to the best trail heads, but there's some terrific stuff. Now all I ahve is bloomin Sherwood Pines! And even that's a half hour.0
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Found this useful!
http://www.mtb-routes.co.uk/northyorkmoors/text/rightsofway.aspx
Interesting, the info on footpaths. To push or not to push.......'Dont waste your time like an idiot on Facebook. Instead, visit an outdoor enthusiast forum and waste your time in style!' Mahatma Ghandi0 -
homers double wrote:There is a cracking footpath visible from the M62 as you pass by Hollingworth lake, you may or may not see a bike riding down it occasionaly.
That would be me...... :twisted: - I always stop for walkers.
homers double wrote:Yup, I live in Littleborough so about a mile and a bit away from Hollingowrth Lake. I've got some great riding about 500 yards out of the door in one direction and the pennines about a mile in the other.
I live in 'boro too, small world...0
