Jagwire Gear Cables - Compatibility with SRAM Red

jouxplan

I spent one of the most frustrating day's of bike maintenance in my life yesterday trying to replace my SRAM Red gear system - and wondered if others on here had had the same experience?

I had already read that threading a new gear cable into a SRAM shifter was for many people a nightmare - and so I was prepared for it to be difficult. But as the hours went by, and I got more and more purple faced I began to suspect that something was fundamentally wrong. Have you ever tried to push a reluctant cat through a cat flap? The cat's legs do exactly what my Jagwire cable kept doing - the former being hilarious and the latter being infuriating. My new cable was simply not going to go around that impossibly tight corner in the shifter.....

I did a little more research, and found to my great surprise that the Jagwire gear cable is 1.2mm in diameter, whilst SRAM's own cables are 1.1mm. So I decided to try re-inserting the SRAM cable I had just removed, to see if that 0.1mm made a difference. I cut it to give me a clean end, and offered it up to the shifter. And it it went straight in and round the corner :!: I then did the same with the other shifter and got the same result.

Given this, I am left with the obvious conclusion that the Jagwire cables are not as compatible with SRAM as is claimed. This makes me mad :evil: I was close to tears and ready to chuck my SRAM system into the nearest bin yesterday, as it seemed ludicrously difficult to swop cables as compared to both Shimano and Campy systems!

I have now set the bike up using the Jagwire housing and my old gear cables (I managed to shorten the housing runs). But I am left feeling pretty bemused and frankly, peeved. Next time I'll buy the SRAM gear cables.

Has anyone else experienced this? Am I missing something?

wishitwasallflat

You had the wrong type of Jagwires - e.g.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/5x-Jagwire-1- ... 41714d2497

I have APEX but all SRAM are optimised for 1.1mm - I use this seller:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/JAGWIRE-Inner ... 27cb2ae223

and you just select the type you need/want - I prefer slick stainless and they stock a nice range of outers as well.

jouxplan

wishitwasallflat wrote:

You had the wrong type of Jagwires - e.g.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/5x-Jagwire-1- ... 41714d2497

I have APEX but all SRAM are optimised for 1.1mm - I use this seller:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/JAGWIRE-Inner ... 27cb2ae223

and you just select the type you need/want - I prefer slick stainless and they stock a nice range of outers as well.

Thank you for the reply and links

What perplexes me is that the Jagwire pack I purchased ('Road Pro' Complete Cable Kit) states on the box 'for use with high performance road bikes' which is what you would expect given the 'Road Pro' label. It does not actually state the diameter of the gear cable, but describes it as 'teflon coated slick stainless steel', and it states it is compatible with SRAM. It does not even say 'except for SRAM Red'. There is simply no indication that it is a 'fat' cable!! And yet it must be, because my original SRAM cable went back in so easily :roll:

It seems to me that the labelling / adverts needs to be made clearer.............oh well, I know for next time

racingcondor

I'm on Force and while it was a pain in the butt threading them they are excellent now that they're in.

wishitwasallflat

jouxplan wrote:

What perplexes me is that the Jagwire pack I purchased ('Road Pro' Complete Cable Kit) states on the box 'for use with high performance road bikes' which is what you would expect given the 'Road Pro' label. It does not actually state the diameter of the gear cable, but describes it as 'teflon coated slick stainless steel', and it states it is compatible with SRAM. It does not even say 'except for SRAM Red'. There is simply no indication that it is a 'fat' cable!! And yet it must be, because my original SRAM cable went back in so easily :roll:

It seems to me that the labelling / adverts needs to be made clearer.............oh well, I know for next time

My understanding is that slick cable is milled to make it 1.1mm and the other stuff is 1.2mm - reading 'teflon coated slick stainless steel' I would have assumed it was 1.1mm and that is what all SRAM systems are designed to use.

ricky1980

the normal Jagwire Race set contains 1.1mm inners for gears. however a 1.2mm will also work for SRAM as the hole for threading the wire is at least 1.5mm as I can put a 1.5mm allen key straight through it to clear blockage.

installation of the wire is an extremely massive pain, the trick is to tie a piece of string at the end of your old wire that is coming out and use it as a draw string.

otherwise you want the jagwire inner that has 1 end that is capped and another is soldered so you can put a bend at the end without the wires fraying.

the last resort, if you feel comfortable is to take the gear shifter apart and pre-thread the wire into the gear mech. it is a lot easier and less frustrating to do and guaranteed success.

jouxplan

wishitwasallflat wrote:

My understanding is that slick cable is milled to make it 1.1mm and the other stuff is 1.2mm - reading 'teflon coated slick stainless steel' I would have assumed it was 1.1mm and that is what all SRAM systems are designed to use.

Which is precisely why I am perplexed :shock:

ricky1980 wrote:

the normal Jagwire Race set contains 1.1mm inners for gears. however a 1.2mm will also work for SRAM as the hole for threading the wire is at least 1.5mm as I can put a 1.5mm allen key straight through it to clear blockage.

installation of the wire is an extremely massive pain, the trick is to tie a piece of string at the end of your old wire that is coming out and use it as a draw string.

otherwise you want the jagwire inner that has 1 end that is capped and another is soldered so you can put a bend at the end without the wires fraying.

the last resort, if you feel comfortable is to take the gear shifter apart and pre-thread the wire into the gear mech. it is a lot easier and less frustrating to do and guaranteed success.

Hmmmmmm. So I ought to have been able to thread my Jagwire cable through it, if it is 1.5mm. But why then could I easily thread my used (and trying to fray) SRAM cable easily, but could not stuff my Jagwire cable round that SRAM shifter bend, however much jiggling, wriggling, grunting, shoving, pushing or expleting I deployed?

The bit in bold type about 'massive pain' is an understatement Can you explain the drawstring thing a bit more though? You must use a pretty smal diameter string, more like a cotton thread!! And what kind of knot stays small enough and tight enough to hold onto a slippery cable ? It sounds like a great idea though.

Yes, I am going to look at a soldered version of the cable, and so bend it more forcibly - if I ever choose to buy Jagwire again!

Taking ther shifter apart - is that just the top little plate that is held on by three screws, or is it a full-on pull it to bits so I will never get it back together again thing? :oops:

Many thanks for your advice!

amaferanga

I gave up on the Jagwire inners as well. After numerous attempts I couldn't thread them through so I tried some Clarkes inners that I had lying around and got them through in no time at all.

ricky1980

the issue is not the entry hole in the white plastic, the issue is the exit hole in the case body. to get the wire around the white plastic which holds the 10speed click metal rotunda the wire has to perform a 130 bend around the white plastic holder. then it has to be precisely lined up with the exit hole. there is no routing inside the plastic body to allow for this precision therefore the issue of installation.

I can guarantee that if you pull your wire out now, and try to put it back in, you have have the trouble again. It is simply luck.

Anyway the draw wire is simply a thin thread of cotton/nylon wire. all it does is to give you the guide to pull the wire through to the exit hole.

I will take some picture of the disassembled shifter to show you the problem.

when i say take it apart, it's a full on disassemble of the shifter pull all the bits out, thread the wire in and then rebuild it. that is the only way i can see how these ruddy things get shipped with wires threaded in them.

the wire routing of SRAM is a terrible design. all they have to do is cut a smaller groove into the body to allow for a duct for the wire to pass and then line up with the exit hole then it is a doddle.

amaferanga

All I know is that the Jagwire cables wouldn't go where as the Clarke ones would. It wasn't just luck with the Clarke cables. Maybe the Jagwire ones would have gone on the 1000th attempt, but I got bored after half an hour of trying.

jouxplan

amaferanga wrote:

All I know is that the Jagwire cables wouldn't go where as the Clarke ones would. It wasn't just luck with the Clarke cables. Maybe the Jagwire ones would have gone on the 1000th attempt, but I got bored after half an hour of trying.

I feel much the same. After 6 hours of getting increasingly incandescent with rage, it struck me as far more than coincidence that as soon as I went back to the SRAM cable, in it went. What are the odds of that being luck'?!!

'bored after half an hour' I was never bored. I was agitated at 30 minutes, angry at one hour, enraged at 2 hours, infuriated at 3 hours, sobbing at 4 hours and incandescent at 5 hours. I gave up the will to live at 6 hours and then thought to try the old cable again.....hey presto :P

jouxplan

ricky1980 wrote:

the issue is not the entry hole in the white plastic, the issue is the exit hole in the case body. to get the wire around the white plastic which holds the 10speed click metal rotunda the wire has to perform a 130 bend around the white plastic holder. then it has to be precisely lined up with the exit hole. there is no routing inside the plastic body to allow for this precision therefore the issue of installation.

I can guarantee that if you pull your wire out now, and try to put it back in, you have have the trouble again. It is simply luck.

Anyway the draw wire is simply a thin thread of cotton/nylon wire. all it does is to give you the guide to pull the wire through to the exit hole.

I will take some picture of the disassembled shifter to show you the problem.

when i say take it apart, it's a full on disassemble of the shifter pull all the bits out, thread the wire in and then rebuild it. that is the only way i can see how these ruddy things get shipped with wires threaded in them.

the wire routing of SRAM is a terrible design. all they have to do is cut a smaller groove into the body to allow for a duct for the wire to pass and then line up with the exit hole then it is a doddle.

As I said to amarferenga, I'm struggling to see this as luck!

Anyway, thank you for your description of the problem, and the cotton drawer wire thing. That is a neat solution to the problem.

I don't trust myself to dismantle the shifter to the extent you suggest. I'm capable of doing most jobs on my bike, but I don't dare dismantle one of these SRAM shifters!

I would love to see the pictures you mentioned - I think this would help a lot of us to appreciate the difficulty of threading the gear cable. Many thanks!

ricky1980

Alright mate, as promised some pictures of inside of a Sram shifter

the pic below shows roughly what the arrangement is - this particular one is missing the brake and shifter paddles as well as missing pawls that click through the gears; note the hole through the white plastic is the hole you thread the wire. the position shown is the gear in the lowest so this entry hole is exactly 90 degrees to the exit hole through the body


this one shows the cover plate on, and the gear is at lowest. you can see there is a slight problem that the hole through the cover plate doesn't line up with the entry hole. this is how SRAM designed it, as the wire has some rigidity, it won't come out of the case in a straight line, but at a slight curvature as well as the fact that it is bent around a 90 degree bend.


this one shows the plastic thing taken out and I put through a 1.5mm allen key in the entry hole, so a 1.2mm wire shouldn't be a problem


this one shows the exit hole through the body of the shifter. note the groove cut into the body before the exit hole. in my opinion, if they slim this down to 1.5mm and/or make the exit hole as large as the groove then there will be no issues

amaferanga

ricky1980 wrote:

Alright mate, as promised some pictures of inside of a Sram shifter

Changes nothing. The Jagwire cables didn't go. That's all there is to it.

ricky1980

just came to me, another solution, take a 2mm drill bit and enlarge the exit hole

ricky1980

amaferanga wrote:

ricky1980 wrote:

Alright mate, as promised some pictures of inside of a Sram shifter

Changes nothing. The Jagwire cables didn't go. That's all there is to it.

Nor will other branded ones... :idea:

TOM14S

Not a particularly helpfull post I must admit as I can't seem to remember how I aligned the cable end up but...
I had zero issue fitting Jagwire racer kit to my Rival shifters they went straight though. I may rememeber moving the lever to help align the cable?
Worst thing i thought about the kit was those stupidly sized end POP ferrels.
Still, 1000's of miles later the cables are still smooooooth and freeeeeeee

jouxplan

ricky1980 wrote:

Alright mate, as promised some pictures of inside of a Sram shifter

Blimey! I'm definitely not gonna dismantle mine! Looks horrific to put back together. Thanks for going to so much effort to post the pics - it gives me a much better idea of what was going on.

I agree that the design of the shifters in this respect seems to be less than ideal. SRAM need to make things easier. I am unsure still about which cables are and are not truly compatible - it is striking that some people have no problems whatsoever with 1.2mm cables. Your description appears to justify why it can be just as awkward using 1.1mm cables, and is a matter of 'luck'. My experience says that if 6 hour efforts to wiggle a Jagwire cable into the shifter get me no where, and then I try a SRAM cable 'for the hell of it' and it works, then luck seems not to be the issue. And amaferanga had a similar experience with his Clarke cables...

But then we have TOM14S who (infuriatingly!!!) put his Jagwire cable straight in with zero issue :!:

I am at a loss :roll:

jouxplan

TOM14S wrote:

Not a particularly helpfull post I must admit as I can't seem to remember how I aligned the cable end up but...
I had zero issue fitting Jagwire racer kit to my Rival shifters they went straight though. I may rememeber moving the lever to help align the cable?
Worst thing i thought about the kit was those stupidly sized end POP ferrels.
Still, 1000's of miles later the cables are still smooooooth and freeeeeeee

Are you purposely trying to upset me?

ricky1980

i have been there, the first time when i installed a set of jagwire into my sram red shifters it was so easy. I followed the online posts above putting a gentle kinky in it. and literally it went through like a dream.

then i installed anther set in my force shifter...that took me over 1 hour of fiddling, at the end i decided to dismantle the unit and thread it through...

gloomyandy

Perhaps there has been a change in the specification of the jagwire cables?

team47b

I posted about varying gear cable diameters in buying advice, and was criticised for making a pointless thread, so here is my point again...

I bought some 1.2mm cables (I have three different brands) they are all noticeably different diameters, luckily the one I bought is a thinner 1.2mm cable than the 1.2mm cable I was replacing so was not a problem.

There doesn't seem to be any quality control, so find a brand that fits and hope they they carry on making their cables to that same diameter.

jouxplan

gloomyandy wrote:

Perhaps there has been a change in the specification of the jagwire cables?

team47b wrote:

I posted about varying gear cable diameters in buying advice, and was criticised for making a pointless thread, so here is my point again...

I bought some 1.2mm cables (I have three different brands) they are all noticeably different diameters, luckily the one I bought is a thinner 1.2mm cable than the 1.2mm cable I was replacing so was not a problem.

There doesn't seem to be any quality control, so find a brand that fits and hope they they carry on making their cables to that same diameter.

This is interesting - I must admit I have not actually tried to check what diameter my Jagwire cables actually measure; and neither have I actually measured my old SRAM cables. But if so called '1.2mm diameter' cables come in different sizes, it perhaps explains why certain cables (even '1.1mm') are easier to fit than others of the supposed same diameter.

As someone else has pointed out though, the diameter of the hole in the SRAM shifter is actually 1.5mm - so in theory 1.1mm AND 1.2mm cable will go through (and in theory, 1.49mm!). The real issue is the tight bend in the SRAM shifter, and so I would have thought the thinner the cable, the easier it ought to be to install.

I'm going to go and lie down in a darkened room................... :roll:

enigmaman

wishitwasallflat wrote:

You had the wrong type of Jagwires - e.g.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/5x-Jagwire-1- ... 41714d2497

I have APEX but all SRAM are optimised for 1.1mm - I use this seller:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/JAGWIRE-Inner ... 27cb2ae223

and you just select the type you need/want - I prefer slick stainless and they stock a nice range of outers as well.

Found this thread before I attempted to thread new cables as I had an idea it might be tricky. Followed your advice and it was a breeze. Thanks very much for the guidance.