help me decend please

ianbar

i know these things improve with time and understand on the drops is generally seen as better but i certainly am not ready for that yet. i try and keep low and over the front wheel but generally always feel very unstable, i dont think its the bike i think it could be a mental thing with me. i am reasonably fine on straight downhills but once i see and bend or corner i lose all confidence. i am probably getting worked up a bit needlessly as looking on strava i would gues all those going faster are probably faster fullstop and more experienced.

declan1

Use the drops. I don't know why everyone is so scared of using them. They are much safer, much more controllable and you can go faster if you wish.

ianbar

think i need to practice, i use the drops at times but not on downhills. couple of shorter rides fri and sat so might look to practice a bit.

slowbike

ianbar wrote:

i know these things improve with time and understand on the drops is generally seen as better but i certainly am not ready for that yet. i try and keep low and over the front wheel but generally always feel very unstable, i dont think its the bike i think it could be a mental thing with me. i am reasonably fine on straight downhills but once i see and bend or corner i lose all confidence. i am probably getting worked up a bit needlessly as looking on strava i would gues all those going faster are probably faster fullstop and more experienced.

Er - low is ok ... but over the front wheel?! No thanks - if anything my arse goes over the back wheel ...

TBH, Low is optional - sitting higher up gives greater wind resistance (assuming you haven't got a tail wind!) and will slow you down a bit too - certainly a trick I've used descending a steep hill to a sharp bend in the cold & wet.

As for how you get faster - it's down to practice and confidence - best done on roads you know to start with - riding them slower and checking where the holes, gravel & drain covers are - working out a route you can take for a smooth course but avoiding them. Then just ride down again but with a little bit more pace ... and repeat - but stop before you fall off ...

displacedaussie

Use the drops. If you're not comfortable on the drops, consider getting new bars/adjusting your position (I had old-style bend bars and smaller compact ones made a massive difference for me, particularly in my ability to reach and use the brakes).

Practice on shallower straight descents that you're comfortable with.

Practice some more.

Watch people who are good at descending (club run?)

It can take a long time to get fast and comfortable. Don't push yourself over that edge just for the sake of it.

markos1963

A few tips.
Confidence is everything, practice on hills you know and trust(no hidden junctions etc)
Start off slow and learn the hill, bumps, drain covers, ruts and bends
DON"T drag your brakes, make positive brake applications and then leave alone
Don't over inflate tyres, go for the lower end of the recommended range for extra grip
Keep balanced on the bike, on the drops but with your body well back in the saddle, bend at the elbows to provide shock absorption
Downhill into bends, do all your braking early, again NO dragging brakes, look where you want to go through the bend, your weight should be through the outside pedal almost to the point where there is air between your bum and the saddle.
Learn to enjoy it

sungod

as hinted at in a post above, MOVE YOUR WEIGHT BACK OR YOU'LL DIE, i hope that is clear :-)

this is good on the subject...

http://www.flammerouge.je/content/3_fac ... escend.htm

ianbar

sungod wrote:

MOVE YOUR WEIGHT BACK OR YOU'LL DIE

ending up dead is in the back of my mind lol dont think it helps that i rolled and wrote off a car once :-s

goonz

You should definitely be over the back wheel and NOT over the front!

smidsy

You need to keep things in control but relaxed. Too tight a grip leads to handling issues.

Keep you weight nicely over the saddle/back wheel and hold the drops (but not death grip).

Pedals horizontal unless turning (when you want the outside pedal at the bottom with your weight on that foot) or pedalling of course.

Look as far ahead as possible and meter your speed with good positive brakes before the turns.

Key is to keep your body and grip relaxed and let the bike run.

Smooth actions are the key to allow the tyres to grip and not unsettle things.

thecrofter

smidsy wrote:

You need to keep things in control but relaxed. Too tight a grip leads to handling issues.

Keep you weight nicely over the saddle/back wheel and hold the drops (but not death grip).

Pedals horizontal unless turning (when you want the outside pedal at the bottom with your weight on that foot) or pedalling of course.

Look as far ahead as possible and meter your speed with good positive brakes before the turns.

Key is to keep your body and grip relaxed and let the bike run.

Smooth actions are the key to allow the tyres to grip and not unsettle things.

Spot on. I can descend quickly (http://app.strava.com/segments/1430179) but only on roads I know well and if the conditions are good, otherwise caution has to be the watchword.

oldwelshman

declan1 wrote:

Use the drops. I don't know why everyone is so scared of using them. They are much safer, much more controllable and you can go faster if you wish.

I beg to differ, I very very rarely use the drops and never go over the front wheel as your likely to come off.
I am either on the hoods or hands middle of bars, leaning right back in aero position, then on hoods for bends,

marcusww

Agree with all the recommendations and one thing that gives me more confidence is keeping relaxed but still - ie not moving on the bike too much.

edhornby

all of what Markos said is really good advice

also don't turn too early and wait until you can see the exit before going to the apex of the turn

ianbar

cheers for all your advice, i am not going out today as legs feeling it a bit from yesterday, i will be out tomorrow and will look to try and start using the techniques.

ianbar

well went on same route as thursday and tried to keep in mind what had been advised. now the fact there was horrific winds and hail didnt help, but i felt more in control today even if i wasnt really much faster, i at least was probably safer!

simon_masterson

Relax your upper body; tension can cause you to wobble. If you don't have a set of rollers I'd recommend them highly; training on them can really help with your balance and control.

Jim C

Ride with experienced riders and watch what they do. No substitute for experience (theirs) and then practice. Will take a month or two of weekly rides . Experiment. Look. Learn. Internet forum will only tell U so much. If your anywhere near derby, get in touch. We ll help u

ianbar

i wasnt on the drops but i did try and relax more and pushed my weight back a little more, and tried to avoid riding the breaks. im in east yorkshire so on the wolds there are plenty of up and downs. i intend to try and practice quite often.

kayakerchris

Where to sit and how to brake can be a bit difficult to get ones head around so this is my understanding.

Going downhill (especially) wherever you are on the bike most of the weight transfer is through the front wheel and tyre. This therefore has the most grip. Therefore you brake first with the front brake.

If your weight is over the front wheel as you brake or even hit a bump you are likely to unstick the back wheel and either skid or go flying over the handlebars.

If you get your weight back on the bike, you approach a 50/50 weight distribution. This helps stick the rear wheel to the road and helps braking. Getting low on the saddle helps to keep the weight centred inside the bike which helps with stability and control.

philwint

I'm coming at this from a mountain biking background where when it gets steep (and particularly if steep and technical) you want your arse way out back behind the saddle.

The thinking is that the worse possible crash is the over-the-bars-face-plant. So keep your centre of gravity as far back as you can to minimise this risk. This is why people are making "dropper" seat posts for MTBs. They allow the saddle to be quickly dropped in a fast descent to get it out of the way so you can get into position easier. Also not being "glued" to the saddle allows you to move around to distribute your weight as you need to.

On my roadbike i can't get my rear as far back as i would on the MTB, but it still seems to make me more stable.

I agree with others recommending the drops. I don't really understand why they feel scary for you? Being able to wrap my hands round the bars and the brakes from a nice low, stable stretched out position (remember my bum out the back nearly off the saddle) makes me feel so much safer than any other position.

On bends you want your outside pedal down, with most of your weight going through that foot as you lean in. This keeps the weight more inline with where the tyres are touching the road

Have a look at this pic. While this is massively exaggerated you can see how his outside foot is almost exactly over where the tyre is hitting the road. So much more weight is down instead of across the line (hope that makes sense?)

zoltansocrates

thecrofter wrote:

smidsy wrote:

You need to keep things in control but relaxed. Too tight a grip leads to handling issues.

Keep you weight nicely over the saddle/back wheel and hold the drops (but not death grip).

Pedals horizontal unless turning (when you want the outside pedal at the bottom with your weight on that foot) or pedalling of course.

Look as far ahead as possible and meter your speed with good positive brakes before the turns.

Key is to keep your body and grip relaxed and let the bike run.

Smooth actions are the key to allow the tyres to grip and not unsettle things.

Spot on. I can descend quickly (http://app.strava.com/segments/1430179) but only on roads I know well and if the conditions are good, otherwise caution has to be the watchword.

im only responding because your signature comment is both factual and laden with humour - and the fact that cramond is about a mile away - hello from up the top of the hill

slowmart

Confidence comes with knowledge and experience.

Once you have summited immediately look below and take a mental note of the direction of the road below which will help build your knowledge of whats to come if you don't know the area or road

Other posters have mentioned a relaxed grip, breathe and look up for your exit. Always pay attention to the road surface and any other hazards when entering a bend, especially junctions, parked cars, pedestrians etc and try to practice using the vanishing point when entering a bend which will help determine the severity of the bend.

An explanation of the vanishing point
http://www.ridedrive.co.uk/driving-tips-04a.htm


The lack of confidence is your self preservation telling you its not happy and you need to build knowledge. It's always best to acquire a little often and build up. Don't get over confident either as when it goes pear shaped, it goes in a blink and the outcome is either painful or expensive or both if you have really screwed the pooch. :shock:

TheHound

I've never got why people don't like being on the drops. I couldn't wait to get on them and blast down a hill at ridiculous speeds. Terrifying but bloody fun.

Though I seem to find it much more comfortable sweeping left then I do going right at speed. Anyone else have a more comfortable side?

ianbar

i am practicing even if on the slightest of bends or decents, its a bit awkward as today it was so windy i had to control the decent anyway. im going to keep at it, as i like doing sportives andmost round here head up malton way and from doing york 100 last year there are plenty of decents round there.

southdownswolf

I have a favourite hill that I use for training in Eastbourne - Beachy Head down to the seafront. It makes for good hill reps going up, then I can practise descending quickly on the way down. As others have said, go to the drops, brake early and look for the vanishing point. You will find that your bike will tends to go where you are looking, so if you look at that pot hole on the side, you will hit it :-) If you look at the racing line, then you have a good chance of following it.

forward_loop

my partner used to be very timid going downhill over the years to the extent that it really got her down - she would brake on straight descents and when signing up for sportives - whilst everyone was looking at the climbs she was scaring herself looking at the descents. - whilst most of what has been said is valid, this is what worked for her over a period of about three weeks
1) tune setup so she is properly comfortable on the drops and the brakes loosened off slightly so she feels she can grab a handful of brake if necessary- and keep a pink resting on the lever through all bends
2) a number of emergency stops - with the front brake only, to help understand balancing the body fore-aft and to hammer home the effectiveness of the front brake over the rear and to provide feel the level of braking needed just prior to entering the bends
3) over a week plenty of descending following the line of an experienced rider in front using the full width of the road where appropriate
4) descending through some of the bends once she knew them from above
I think having someone to follow really helps
Now - she scares me.