Goodbye EPO, Hello Oxygen Pills

LeicesterLad

Good article by Cyclingtips.com.au: http://www.cyclingtips.com.au/2013/04/oxygen-in-a-pill-the-next-big-thing-in-sports-doping/

Some very clever people are working on a tablet to increase red blood cell count and aid in the transportation of oxygen around the body. Currently going through clinical trials it could be on the market in the next couple of years and obviously lends itself well to endurance athletes...

Out with the old in with the new, doping is going to be with us for eternity.

inkyfingers

Yep. We should do what we can to make it as hard as possible to get away with, but there will always be somebody willing to take the risk, and the testers will always be in the position of having to react to new trends. The idea of a clean sport is pure fantasy, some humans will lie and cheat to get what they want, it has ever been thus.

term1te

I used to be able to buy oxygent pills from my local pet shop. You were supposed to add them to fish tanks to oxygenate the water. I don't remember it doing much for the endurance of Bob the goldfish, although he did live to be 17 years old.

LeicesterLad

Term1te wrote:

I used to be able to buy oxygent pills from my local pet shop. You were supposed to add them to fish tanks to oxygenate the water. I don't remember it doing much for the endurance of Bob the goldfish, although he did live to be 17 years old.

I'd say at 17 years old those tablets did plenty for his endurance!

edhornby

Interesting to note that the drug maker went straight to WADA and said 'er we think you should look at this one' ... good to know that their reputational damage limitation processes account for misuse

inkyfingers

LeicesterLad wrote:

Term1te wrote:

I used to be able to buy oxygent pills from my local pet shop. You were supposed to add them to fish tanks to oxygenate the water. I don't remember it doing much for the endurance of Bob the goldfish, although he did live to be 17 years old.

I'd say at 17 years old those tablets did plenty for his endurance!

Reminds me of the old gag about Viagra.... it did nothing for my sex life, but at least stopped me rolling out of bed.

salsiccia1

BTW, nice avatar, Inkyfingers

inkyfingers

Salsiccia1 wrote:

BTW, nice avatar, Inkyfingers

Thanks, I saw it when looking for another image and thought it was a great shot and perfect with the Giro on the horizon.

ratsbeyfus

Term1te wrote:

I used to be able to buy oxygent pills from my local pet shop. You were supposed to add them to fish tanks to oxygenate the water. I don't remember it doing much for the endurance of Bob the goldfish, although he did live to be 17 years old.

What was Bob like on a bike?

DeadCalm

Erm, wouldn't use of this substance be detected by the biological passport rendering it's use by cyclists almost pointless?

LeicesterLad

DeadCalm wrote:

Erm, wouldn't use of this substance be detected by the biological passport rendering it's use by cyclists almost pointless?

Passport isn't fullproof though or surely a fair few riders would be up sh*t creek? Passport is only a guide - from what I gather it can be manipulated or at least throw up the odd natural anomoly.

joelsim

ratsbeyfus wrote:

Term1te wrote:

I used to be able to buy oxygent pills from my local pet shop. You were supposed to add them to fish tanks to oxygenate the water. I don't remember it doing much for the endurance of Bob the goldfish, although he did live to be 17 years old.

What was Bob like on a bike?

Like a fish out of water I suspect

danlikesbikes

Yes it would get picked up by the passport system.

However if taken in small enough amounts over a period the average baseline reading for the rider would go up & be set at a higher limit and be considered in the acceptable range?

MartinB2444

Would be great if a biochemical marker could be added to it but I guess that won't happen.

ContrelaMontre

Joelsim wrote:

ratsbeyfus wrote:

Term1te wrote:

I used to be able to buy oxygent pills from my local pet shop. You were supposed to add them to fish tanks to oxygenate the water. I don't remember it doing much for the endurance of Bob the goldfish, although he did live to be 17 years old.

What was Bob like on a bike?

Like a fish out of water I suspect

Like a woman needs a man...

markmod

ContrelaMontre wrote:

Joelsim wrote:

ratsbeyfus wrote:

Term1te wrote:

I used to be able to buy oxygent pills from my local pet shop. You were supposed to add them to fish tanks to oxygenate the water. I don't remember it doing much for the endurance of Bob the goldfish, although he did live to be 17 years old.

What was Bob like on a bike?

Like a fish out of water I suspect

Like a woman needs a man...

He wasn't that good... He just didn't have the legs!!!

I'll get me coat

Mikey23

I feel a strong connection with bod, what a shame he's passed on...
I heard he was the only goldfish who could speak his name ...

powerbookboy

Danlikesbikes wrote:

Yes it would get picked up by the passport system.

However if taken in small enough amounts over a period the average baseline reading for the rider would go up & be set at a higher limit and be considered in the acceptable range?

It suggests that it could be used to used to increase the efficiency of training by extending the "stress-response" window. Unless I'm misunderstanding, it's essentially turning damping down the gene expression of one of the enzymes involved in the homeostatic mechanism that regulates the bodies stress response to hyopoxia.

Homeostasis just means balance. You have mechanisms for increasing the rate at which somethings happens, other ones for decreasing it. They see-saw around according to the external pressures on them, and when those pressures get removed the return to balance.

In this case, the drug reduces the rate that the protein required to return the things to balance is produced. Meaning the see-saw stays on the side of the body responding to low-oxygen stress for longer. Which probably means the natural EPO production tap stays on for longer, before being squeezed off.

If you're clever you train at altitude, or maybe just bloody hard in an O2 tent, but your body leaves the "oh god I'm gasping" response on for longer than would normally do so. Claim the person is an ultra-responder to altitude training. Some people may be born this way, others can become this way through a pill.

I can see the most benefit for the less well funded teams who can't afford to live on Tiede for months on end. Or new riders who haven't got a lot of longitudinal data on their passport. Basically not Wiggins or Froome before someone asks.

The interesting thing is how long does the effect last? I'd expect it to be quite short term, so it'll need top-up during training and have a narrow detection window. Whereabouts programme and proper funding for testing is as always the solution.

danlikesbikes

powerbookboy wrote:

Danlikesbikes wrote:

Yes it would get picked up by the passport system.

However if taken in small enough amounts over a period the average baseline reading for the rider would go up & be set at a higher limit and be considered in the acceptable range?

It suggests that it could be used to used to increase the efficiency of training by extending the "stress-response" window. Unless I'm misunderstanding, it's essentially turning damping down the gene expression of one of the enzymes involved in the homeostatic mechanism that regulates the bodies stress response to hyopoxia.

Homeostasis just means balance. You have mechanisms for increasing the rate at which somethings happens, other ones for decreasing it. They see-saw around according to the external pressures on them, and when those pressures get removed the return to balance.

In this case, the drug reduces the rate that the protein required to return the things to balance is produced. Meaning the see-saw stays on the side of the body responding to low-oxygen stress for longer. Which probably means the natural EPO production tap stays on for longer, before being squeezed off.

If you're clever you train at altitude, or maybe just bloody hard in an O2 tent, but your body leaves the "oh god I'm gasping" response on for longer than would normally do so. Claim the person is an ultra-responder to altitude training. Some people may be born this way, others can become this way through a pill.

I can see the most benefit for the less well funded teams who can't afford to live on Tiede for months on end. Or new riders who haven't got a lot of longitudinal data on their passport. Basically not Wiggins or Froome before someone asks.

The interesting thing is how long does the effect last? I'd expect it to be quite short term, so it'll need top-up during training and have a narrow detection window. Whereabouts programme and proper funding for testing is as always the solution.

Thats assuming it (a) does become banned & (b) there is an effective test brought in. If not could just be taken over time to up ones hematocrit levels which is partly the basis of the passport system.

powerbookboy

Danlikesbikes wrote:

powerbookboy wrote:

Danlikesbikes wrote:

Snip....

The interesting thing is how long does the effect last? I'd expect it to be quite short term, so it'll need top-up during training and have a narrow detection window. Whereabouts programme and proper funding for testing is as always the solution.

Thats assuming it (a) does become banned & (b) there is an effective test brought in. If not could just be taken over time to up ones hematocrit levels which is partly the basis of the passport system.

It's probably already banned under some of the catch-all rules they have.

There will be a test. It's a simple compound, not a complex peptide hormone and/or naturally occurring. Those are the reet awkward ones. The only question will be how quickly it clears and whether you have to take a gallon of blood to get a viable sample size. You could probably detect it today. How long it'll take to get validated might be the problem, but hell, freeze the samples...

http://www.abmole.com/product.asp?id=1726

P.S. I may be talking rubbish...

danlikesbikes

powerbookboy wrote:

Danlikesbikes wrote:

powerbookboy wrote:

Danlikesbikes wrote:

Snip....

The interesting thing is how long does the effect last? I'd expect it to be quite short term, so it'll need top-up during training and have a narrow detection window. Whereabouts programme and proper funding for testing is as always the solution.

Thats assuming it (a) does become banned & (b) there is an effective test brought in. If not could just be taken over time to up ones hematocrit levels which is partly the basis of the passport system.

It's probably already banned under some of the catch-all rules they have.

There will be a test. It's a simple compound, not a complex peptide hormone and/or naturally occurring. Those are the reet awkward ones. The only question will be how quickly it clears and whether you have to take a gallon of blood to get a viable sample size. You could probably detect it today. How long it'll take to get validated might be the problem, but hell, freeze the samples...

http://www.abmole.com/product.asp?id=1726

P.S. I may be talking rubbish...

This is banned by WADA/UCI for what it does, but not this specific product. Though currently not aware there is a specific test for it, but could be wrong I'd need to go back through testing etc.

Your right in that part of the issue for testing & its a grey area to use normal people as well as the nerds out there (raises hand in admission) is how easily this new drug will dissolve or remain detectable. If its short term in effect and short term life in the blood system then might never get a positive test, even if a specific test were introduced.