Ice Tech rotors with standard calipers: any issue?

kilou

Hi,

I'm currently running Shimano Deore M596 calipers with some Shimano SM RT 54 rotors that originally came with the bike and are causing some vibrations. Shimano actually recommends the SM RT 64 for these brakes but I'd like to upgrade to Ice Tech SLX SM RT 67 rotors since these are just 3$ more per rotor compared to the RT 64. However some people advocate against the use of Ice Tech rotors with non Ice Tech calipers and pads arguing that this can cause the aluminum core of the rotors to melt down. For instance I even read a german test where all their Ice Tech rotors (no matter whether used with or without finned pads) had melted down. See this document, in german though:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/613 ... m_Test.pdf

On the other hand Shimano does not seem to warn against the use of Ice Tech rotors with non Ice Tech calipers. Their website even presents some tests of Ice Tech brakes where for instance they tested the M596 brakes with XT RT 81 or SLX RT 67 rotors and had good performances (although they labelled the RT 67 rotors as being steel whereas I thought they were Ice Tech as well). See here for these tests:

http://cycle.shimano-eu.com/publish/con ... _Test.html

So should I be concerned with using the Ice Tech SM RT 67 rotors with my M596 calipers and sintered pads? Are you aware of any issue with Ice Tech rotors on standard calipers? I already ordered the RT 67 rotors but should I prefer the RT 64 that are originally recommended for the M596?

Note that my area (Switzerland) is rather steep and I got the RT 54 to overheat sometimes. This is why I thought that Ice Tech rotors may help...

Thanks for any input

cooldad

I doubt it's the rotors causing vibration unless something is loose or warped.

mister p

RT67 rotors are not Ice-Tech, they are an SLX level steel rotor. The SM-RT81 XT level is the cheaper Ice-Tech with SM-RT98 being the more expensive XTR.

I have heard no complaints of people using Ice-Tech rotors with non-finned pads. I wouldn't have any qualms about running that combination.

gazeddy

if im completely honest finned pads seem like a waste of time imho. cars dont use them and generate far more heat and cars put more stress on there brakes comparativley

cooldad

mister p wrote:

RT67 rotors are not Ice-Tech, they are an SLX level steel rotor. The SM-RT81 XT level is the cheaper Ice-Tech with SM-RT98 being the more expensive XTR.

I have heard no complaints of people using Ice-Tech rotors with non-finned pads. I wouldn't have any qualms about running that combination.

But it's unklikey to be a solution to vibration.

EH_Rob

but he did answer the question in the subject line of the thread.

cd has a point though, the vibrations could be caused by all manner of things.

kilou

Thanks for all your posts! I get the vibration in the front fork when braking but only near the end of the braking. The headset is tight as pretty much everything else on the bike (new). I tried to clean the rotor and pads but it did not help. A guy on another forum had the same issue and solved by using the recommended rotors for the m596 (sm rt 64 instead of sm rt 54) so I figured out I wpuld do the same.

This may not solve the vibration problem but I hope it does. Anyway the brake feeling with the rt 54 discs is poor and the rt 64 are supposedly much better. I hope the rt 67 will be even better. Actually it is pretty weird because there are many places/webshops where the rt 67 are labelled as being Ice Tech. I've read that the Ice Tech rotors were rt 98, rt 81 and rt 67 though. Well but I'd understand if they are not Ice Tech because the costs just a couple bucks more than the rt 64. I just hope that the rt 67 are better or at least equivalent to the rt 64, but much better than my currenr rt 54!

cooldad

Rotors are rotors are rotors generally, unless they are lacey or floating, in which case they are rubbish. I doubt you can tell the difference between them.

The Northern Monkey

I bet its your pads moving... same thing happens on my deore m596 brakes and it was the pads.

kilou

What did you do to fix the moving pad issue? New pads? I'm running the stock Shimano resin pads right now but I have a set of TruckerCo sintered pads. The new SLX rotors will at least allow me to run these pads because on the current RT 54 rotors it is written "resin pads only". That's a sufficient reason to move away from these RT 54 rotors I guess.

The Northern Monkey

Resin pads only is bollox!

And I just ignored the pads... seemed to go away eventually.
A new disk wont solve your problems.

kilou

I checked the bike this evening and it seems the pads grab the front rotor a bit high (there is a ridge on the edge of the pads). I wonder whether the vibration may come from that. I've cleaned the rotor and sanded down the pads to make them even and I'll see how that works. However I feel the front brake is not that powerful and seems to have less force than the rear brake (both are 160mm). The sm rt 67 I orderef are 180mm maybe that'll help as well.

Is it possible that the vibration comes from a poor bleeding of the mineral oil at the factory? Or is it possible that the front fork (suntour ncx-e air) get some play in the fork arms (the headset is tight)? The bike is new so I'd be surprised the fork has some play.

The Rookie

If the pad overlaps the edge of the disc and the disc is very wavey edged then it can cause a vibration problem.....do you have the right size adaptor or any washers under the caliper?

kilou

No washers and the adapters are all good. However maybe the RT 54 rotors are too narraow. Shimano recommends the RT 64 for the M596 brakes maybe for a reason. I'll test with the RT67 rotors and new sintered pads when they arrive.

cooldad

Nope, that doesn't make sense.

kilou

I received the SLX SM RT 67 rotors and installed them. As someone pointed out these are not Ice Tech. However the vibration I had with the SM RT 54 are now gone! Braking is now a lot smoother and stronger due to the larger size (180mm vs 160mm). The only other change I made is to install a Pitlock axle and nut to replace the quick release on the front wheel but I doubt this has something to due with the vibration going away. For me the new rotors really solved the problem and the old one were not warped at all. It might just be that the own frequency of the old rotors and that of the fork were too close and generated some kind of resonance... Well no idea but SM RT 67 on BR M596 brakes really work well.

cooldad

Or you just tightened them up properly.

duir

I have experienced severe vibration and a kind of grinding noise on my XT 785 rear brake but had zero issues with the same brake on the front. I have tried every possible cure, bleeding, new/different pads, correct setup/alignment, correctly torqued bolts, correct bedding in but nothing works.

Strangely the brake provides superb power and bite and no leaks. However the vibration is so bad I can feel it in the lever.

Maybe the Ice tech rotor is the issue and I need to try the non ice tech one. Can't think what else it is.

goytregrit

My mates just fitted some brand new deore brakes. He had an issue on the very first outing. He's currently using them on an existing 185mm rotor and has had to shim up the post mount slightly. I've advised him to get an ice tech rotor at 180, but that isn't the sum of the problem. If we apply the brake and move the wheel, there is an initial movement and heavy clunk of the pads within the caliper, as you push wheel forward and then the same issue as you pull the wheel back.

Chunkers1980

Don't shim, get the correct rotor to adaptor

BigStu2

My new XTR m985 (xc) brakes dont have the finned pads as opposed to the trail version but do have the icetech rotors, they seem to be fine and as for the "rotor" they dont appear to be anything too flash just a lot more aluminium than an XT rotor and a higher cost.