Higher spoke count, lighter rim?

colm_gti

I have 2 pairs of novatec hubs en route to me to have some training and racing wheels built up by a local wheelbuilder.

He has open pros available off the shelf, so I'll be going with these for a training wheelset; novatec hubs, 32/32 DT competition spokes and open pro rims....grand.

As for the racing wheelset, I have ordered a pair of kinlin tb25 rims, but not 100% sure if I want tubs anymore, and looking at other options. My question is, seeing as I'm having a 32/32 DT revolution spoke racing wheelset built up, can I get away with using a lighter rim, like the stans alpha 340, or something along those lines?

ugo.santalucia

Velocity Aerohead is the dog if you want light clinchers

colm_gti

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Velocity Aerohead is the dog if you want light clinchers

Thought they've stopped making them though?

ugo.santalucia

colm_gti wrote:

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Velocity Aerohead is the dog if you want light clinchers

Thought they've stopped making them though?

That is a rumour I am responsible for.. apparently it was bullsxxt... best thing is to give a ring to Brick Lane Bikes, they import the things and they will know best

captain_tiara

Go Sapim Laser or Comp spokes. Much better made. If you hold DT's & Sapim's in your hand you can just see how much the difference is.

ugo.santalucia

Captain Tiara wrote:

Go Sapim Laser or Comp spokes. Much better made. If you hold DT's & Sapim's in your hand you can just see how much the difference is.

I have and in fairness I always found the that DT have a much better machining of the threads. DT come with a range of tools specifically designed for their spokes, Sapim is a bit lacking in this respect. While Dt Prolock nipples serve a purpose, the Sapim polyax nipples don't seem to be anything better than standard nipples in any rim they are fitted.
The UK is a Sapim market, the USA and Germany are more DT Swiss markets... they are both very good, I prefer Dt for the above reasons

cycleclinic

Both brands of spokes are eqally good in my view it just that Sapim's are cheaper. Both spokes will build a good wheel.

The aerohead it quite cheap too. If you are on a real budget there is the Kinlin Xr-200. Now hang on ugo I know its not your faorite rim but it actually is not that bad. In fact it has very good roundness and builds a rounder wheel with even tension the the Silver A23's are managing at the moment. I am getting slight worried about velocity rims after the last few A23's in silver I have had in I don't know if this a an A23 problem or an issue with velocity rims in general at present. The finish on the is terrible and the the alot of swarf in the rim which needs picking out. Also they are taking alot of work to get resoanably round and with even tension. They are almost to point where I would reject them. I hope the current aeroheads are better than this. I am getting another batch in tomorrow. I will see if they are any different. I might stop using them if this next lot are the same.

There is also the DT Swiss RR415 another one of ugo least favouite rims but so long as your wheel builder does not exceed the max tension on the rim (1100N) they will be fine with Novatec hubs as they give a resonable tension balance. I use these alot with out issue and ride on them my self.

Light rims and more spokes makes the perfect bike wheel, good plan. The Open Pro is not bad bet though and a better rim than the silver A23's at present.

colm_gti

Thanks for the input lads, hubs arrived today so just have to pick rims now and drop them in to be built up.

Will be using DT swiss as that's what the wheelbuilder in question prefers to work with.

Where can the Kinlin XR200's be bought?

What about the stans alpha 340?

And can I use the above combination, more spokes and a lighter rim, given my 85kg weight?

cycleclinic

Where can Kinlin XR-200 be bought - My shop
where can Stans Alpha 340 be bought - My shop

There will be other vendors but why would I suggest them?

I would suggest for you with wither rim a 28 spoke front laced 2x and a 32 spoke rear laced 3x.

colm_gti

Cycle clinic, what rim would you recommend? My hubs are 32h front and rear.

I am tempted to just go with open pros built with DT revolutions and alloy nipples for racing on as the wheelbuilder that will be doing the work has open pros on the shelf...is there any reason why I should go for a different rim over these?

ugo.santalucia

colm_gti wrote:

Cycle clinic, what rim would you recommend? My hubs are 32h front and rear.

I am tempted to just go with open pros built with DT revolutions and alloy nipples for racing on as the wheelbuilder that will be doing the work has open pros on the shelf...is there any reason why I should go for a different rim over these?

Very indecisive, aren't you...

Among the butter rims which will crack over time, you want to also consider IRD cadence... the shallow 390 grams ones... the aero 460 are much better, but I think they are rebadged Kinlin

colm_gti

ugo.santalucia wrote:

colm_gti wrote:

Cycle clinic, what rim would you recommend? My hubs are 32h front and rear.

I am tempted to just go with open pros built with DT revolutions and alloy nipples for racing on as the wheelbuilder that will be doing the work has open pros on the shelf...is there any reason why I should go for a different rim over these?

Very indecisive, aren't you...

Among the butter rims which will crack over time, you want to also consider IRD cadence... the shallow 390 grams ones... the aero 460 are much better, but I think they are rebadged Kinlin

Massively indecisive :P

It's taken me this long to get as far as choosing hubs and spoke counts sure! If there was only one rim available I'd be content, all the choice is confusing me!

I don't want butter rims that will crack over time, I'm looking for the best balance between longevity, stiffness and lightness. If I get a season out of them I'll be happy.

ugo.santalucia

colm_gti wrote:

ugo.santalucia wrote:

colm_gti wrote:

Cycle clinic, what rim would you recommend? My hubs are 32h front and rear.

I am tempted to just go with open pros built with DT revolutions and alloy nipples for racing on as the wheelbuilder that will be doing the work has open pros on the shelf...is there any reason why I should go for a different rim over these?

Very indecisive, aren't you...

Among the butter rims which will crack over time, you want to also consider IRD cadence... the shallow 390 grams ones... the aero 460 are much better, but I think they are rebadged Kinlin

Massively indecisive :P

It's taken me this long to get as far as choosing hubs and spoke counts sure! If there was only one rim available I'd be content, all the choice is confusing me!

I don't want butter rims that will crack over time, I'm looking for the best balance between longevity, stiffness and lightness. If I get a season out of them I'll be happy.

Have you enquired about the Aerohead?

cycleclinic

Well the IRD cadance is the the Kinlin XR-200. The Other IRD rim mentioned is the Kinlin XR-300. recomending the XR-300 is like recomending a orange when a pear was asked for. These are two very different rim that do the wheel thing differently.

The XR-200 is £35. The Alpha 340 is over double that. The stans rim uses there BSD which should mean your tyre take a wider profile than it would on the Kinlin. both rims are light at 385g. Both rims are not for comutting really or riding in winter filth as they have thin brake tracks. These are good weather rims really. The Open Pro is more 4 seasons rim but is heavier an OP is 440g average.

Kinlin's are easily sourced and are avilable in 32H drilling now. The Stan's are also available in this driiling. The Kinlin has no decals and is plain black. The Kinlin and stans rims are also deeper at 22m than the open pro so look less box section.

Pick the Kinlin if you want light on a budget (but is builds a very good evenly tensioned wheel). Pick the Stans alpha 340 if you want to spend more money. Pick the OP if you are cycling in all weathers.
The Kinlin and new 340 rims will not crack beacuse you are riding them. The XR-200 has a max tension of 1200N. Tension much beyond that will start to distrort the rim. The max tension of the 340 rim is 1225N. The Open Pro has a working max tension of 1200N as well. The kinlin and the stans rim are fine for rider above 80kg. For heavier the rider the Open Pro works well.

I have not had an aerohead recently to know if the qality issues I have had with the silver A23 recently extend to these rims. Ugo can probably tell us.

Feel free to give me a call, pm or post here to discuss this. There is no rim which is "better" than the other they all have there advantages and disadvantages. For some those weigh up in favour of one rim and for others the weigh p in favour of another.

In your original post the TB25 rims have a max tension of 1025N which is low. I have never used them but those that do stick to that max tension so not the best for hub with a poor tension balance or heavy riders.

ugo.santalucia

thecycleclinic wrote:

I have not had an aerohead recently to know if the qality issues I have had with the silver A23 recently extend to these rims. Ugo can probably tell us.

:shock:

Hey oh, sometimes rims are not perfect... it is your job to make them into perfect wheels anyway... you should see the Wolber Profil they used in 1990... it's a battle to get the damn things round, but then they fly on the track...