Moving into gaps

Herbsman

What's the etiquette when it comes to moving into gaps in the bunch, should you (1) just move in without any warning, or should you (2) look and signal your intention first with some sort of hand signal, or should you (3) politely ask the bloke who has left the gap in front of him "excuse me, fellow racer, would you mind if I were to move into the gap that you have left sir, for I am simply suffering far too much here while pushing the wind on my own, and it would be far more beneficial for both of us if I were to get in the gap, as it would mean you would not have to expend any of your valuable and limited energy closing said gap, and I would benefit from some shelter from the wind!" Only reason I ask is because I normally choose option two, but got moaned at for doing so, and was worried that it might not be acceptable. :?

Pokerface

Look and move. And throw an elbow at anyone else trying to move into the gap at the same time.

joe.90

people will always moan.

just keep doing what your doing aslong as its safe.

JamesFree

Or maybe your not doing it as safely as you think you are moving into gaps that just aren't big enough or just moving too erratically.

There was one guy in the SERRL race I was in yesterday who was getting a lot of stick because of this he was moving into gaps not really big enough and almost taking peoples front wheels out (as rather than easing in it he was moving in way too fast) and almost every time we did one of the fast turns on the course everyone else would take a nice wide smooth line and he was dive up the inside and therefore cutting a load of people up (this was halfway round the circuit so not a place so hardly a place to fight for position).

Herbsman

I generally signal a couple of seconds before gradually edging into the gap, so I go in smoothly and so that the guy behind has a few seconds warning... I don't just chop in. Normally I wait for them to say 'go on mate' or whatever, but if they don't want me to move in he can just move forward a bit and push me back out again...

Thick Tester

If you have time to think about how you should be moving into a gap then someone else will more often thank not have taken it by the time you've decided Just dont leave them open -

Setarkos

What did they moan about? What sort of signal did you make? Did you take a hand off the handlebars? Usually a look over the shoulder is considered signal enough.
Sometimes other riders don't want you in the position you want to be, that's inevitable - it's not a club ride after all.
As long as you move over gradually, I don't see a problem. As you said they can still tap you on the hip and if they can't they are too far off the wheel anyway.

Herbsman

"YOU CAN'T JUST POINT AND MOVE INTO A GAP!"

Nobody else has ever complained, and every time I've done this in the past people have let me in

Not sure if the guy was just being a bell end or whether I am doing something wrong.

danlikesbikes

Herbsman can't see any issue with the way your ride from what you say think its a perfectly reasonable action in a race & as you said if someone didn't want you there they could easily close the gap a bit and put the elbow out to let you know.

Strith

Well you shouldn't need a written invitation either. I second what pokerface said.

Pokerface

I wouldn't be wanting to take my hands off the bars in a road race to signal anything myself. Thus - I'd look and move.

Sure - if there's no actual gap or it's too small, etc then of course people might moan. But it;s racing and not a club run. You don't have to ask for permission to make a move if you do it safely.

imposter2.0

It's good practice to let people around you know what you are planning to do. I frequently signal like that in road races, as do many others. If you don't fancy taking your hands off the bars in a road race, then good luck trying to take a drink on the move

Pokerface

Imposter wrote:

It's good practice to let people around you know what you are planning to do. I frequently signal like that in road races, as do many others. If you don't fancy taking your hands off the bars in a road race, then good luck trying to take a drink on the move

OK - that was a fair comment (about taking a drink). However, I tend to drink when everyone slows up and it's 'safe' - not when flying along. If I was taking my hands off the bars all the time to point to gaps constantly... I would have problems.

But I'm probably not the best bike handler

Cookie91

Like others have said, its a race. Close gaps for your own advantage, as long as it's done safely I don't see any problem in it. Also if there's a gap, chances are the rider is struggling to hold onto the wheel in-front anyway or stopped paying attention.

DavidJB

A look over the shoulder is the signal. No point using your hands.

racingcondor

As mentioned by Colin don't indicate with your hands in a race, a decent look over your shoulder is enough to tell the person behind what your planning and they shouldn't get a shock unless they're chewing on the bars themselves (which may have been the reason for the gap in this case).

Just be careful not to chop someones wheel off and they shouldn't complain. A statement of "you can't just point and move into a gap" is (assuming the gap is big enough) just wrong, if there's a gap in a crit you should expect someone to make a move for it. Don't like it, don't leave a gap.

okgo

FWIW all levels of riders do all sorts of different things, many just move in, but equally many good riders also signal too if they want you to let them in. Signalling is not the sign of a noob, as I noticed a few full time riders signal their intent at a race I did recently. I still say on your left, on your right etc if I think that person may not be aware of me moving up, just makes it safer.

Setarkos

okgo wrote:

I still say on your left, on your right etc if I think that person may not be aware of me moving up, just makes it safer.

If I consider the field experienced enough I prefer a tap on the hip, since whenever you say "on your left" the five riders in front of you move to the right

petemadoc

Herbsman wrote:

"YOU CAN'T JUST POINT AND MOVE INTO A GAP!"

Hilarious! If anyone leaves a gap it's there for the taking. I'd have answered " we'll I just did so ner ner ner ner na na"

No need to signal or ask, just take the gap, your bike moving into it is the signal.

imposter2.0

PeteMadoc wrote:

No need to signal or ask, just take the gap, your bike moving into it is the signal.

What colours do you ride in Pete? It would be good to know, so I can avoid you in races...

dbb

we are talking about racing aren't we?
i want to beat you, so, if a gap is there big enough and i want it - i would not ask for permission.
as others have stated - it is not a club ride.
it sounds like you have done well Herbsman and like others, i would prefer you keep your hands on the bars while in tight bunches and technical situations.

Herbsman

Well I wouldn't take my hands off when going around a corner or down a hill, or drilling it to catch a breakaway of course. Don't see the problem when going in a straight line at a steady pace... certainly less dangerous than grabbing a bottle.

forward_loop

people shouting in races is sometimes a reflection of their own racing inadequacies, sometimes they have a valid point, sometimes the rants are just a by product of adrenalin and are un-intelligble, perhaps he wouldn't have said anything if you were in team kit - or had shaved legs etc etc - you need to make up your own mind, but on the basis of you have done it for a while (hand signals that is) and its not been commentated on before I would suggest that its cool. The guy left what he acknowledge was a gap, and as someone said earlier - it would be beneficial, for you to fill it. (not withstanding the other valid points about bends etc etc ).
Plenty of riders use hand signals in races - from the TdeF down to the local crit -

I've seen more accidents by people looking over their shoulder in races than as a result of hand signals and opening the hand out to suggest your moving in to a gap doesn't really mean you have any hands actually off the drops.

dbb

in summary - the jury has reached its verdict and determined that no offence has been committed. you won't be convicted!
you are free to carry on as you have been.