Is it ok to party crash a sportive?

NITR8s

So there is a local sportive taking place near to me this Sunday and I have been contemplaiting riding the course with them on Sunday as it gives me a nice mapped out route and company of other riders.

Obviously I havent paid the entry fee and obviously I wont be usuing their feed stop as thats just wrong. However, at the end of the day it is on open roads.

The question is am I evil for thinking of doing this?

pete.whelan

Whilst it may not be good form to do it, there is no law against it as the roads are not closed and for anyone to ride. Only if it was run on closed roads would it be gate-crashing.

arran77

I guess there's nothing wrong with it if like you say you don't intend to use the feed stops or other facilities being paid for.

Those who have paid to ride it could feel differently though, however wouldn't overly bother me.

slowbike

Good form or not? No harm in it is there? Not sure how anyone could argue against doing it - you're not using up any of their resources ...
About the only genuine moan there could be is if you wheel suck a participant without first getting the consent of the sucker ... but that's just etiquette

forward_loop

Locally run and organised, charity orientated sportive run by amateurs/volunteers ?
Or
Commercial concern possibly part of a national series ?

AchillesLeftKnee

NITR8s wrote:

The question is am I evil for thinking of doing this?

Assuming you mean the CW Surrey Hills sportive, I'd be careful. I've just been into town and the organisers have brought in a specially trained leopard to take down interlopers at the mini roundabout in Cranleigh. When you see the red sign saying "Extreme Caution" by the petrol station, that's why...

ddraver

It would almost be worth it to see a Leopard! :P

If it makes you feel better, know that Belgian cyclists never enter the RVV sportive, they just rock up and ride round. Given that Beligium is the cycling capital of the world, I think that's a pretty good excuse...

ugo.santalucia

There is no reason why you shouldn't...

Events run at a 80% turnout on a sunny day, which means if up to 20% of the participants are illegal, there is no significant risk that was not planned ahead and agreed with local authorities. Of course if masses of cyclists decide to do so, then it becomes a problem, but I have never heard of one event where this was the case.
You can always try and ask at the registration desk if they have an entry available... if not, you've done your part

junglist_matty

I've done it before, will probably do it again.... Most people don't know whether you paid or not and couldn't care less.... Just don't be sneaky and steal food / drink at feed stations, go prepared and take your own stuff....

I've tagged along with friends who have paid (making a last minute decision to attend after entry closed)

FoldingJoe

AchillesLeftKnee wrote:

NITR8s wrote:

The question is am I evil for thinking of doing this?

Assuming you mean the CW Surrey Hills sportive, I'd be careful. I've just been into town and the organisers have brought in a specially trained leopard to take down interlopers at the mini roundabout in Cranleigh. When you see the red sign saying "Extreme Caution" by the petrol station, that's why...

Could be the Coasting in Cornwall, in which case he'll have The Beast to deal with!!

NITR8s

No ones mentioned the event as yet, heres a hint the area has its own kind of wild cat.

I was thinking of starting near the end of the start time so I can enjoy overtaking people for the majority of the ride.

I was thinking of strapping a number to the front of my bike so I get my picture taken?

Bobbinogs

NITR8s wrote:

I was thinking of starting near the end of the start time so I can enjoy overtaking people for the majority of the ride.

I was thinking of strapping a number to the front of my bike so I get my picture taken?

Ha! You should get out more

fish156

NITR8s wrote:

So there is a local sportive taking place near to me this Sunday and I have been contemplaiting riding the course with them on Sunday as it gives me a nice mapped out route and company of other riders.

Obviously I havent paid the entry fee and obviously I wont be usuing their feed stop as thats just wrong. However, at the end of the day it is on open roads.

The question is am I evil for thinking of doing this?

Local routes in the company of other riders? Ever considered joining your local cycling club? You get that every week of the year for about £20.

AchillesLeftKnee

NITR8s wrote:

No ones mentioned the event as yet, heres a hint the area has its own kind of wild cat.

The Longleat Lion Enclosure Loop?

Bobbinogs

AchillesLeftKnee wrote:

NITR8s wrote:

No ones mentioned the event as yet, heres a hint the area has its own kind of wild cat.

The Longleat Lion Enclosure Loop?

That would keep me pedalling fast

NITR8s

Bobbinogs wrote:

AchillesLeftKnee wrote:

NITR8s wrote:

No ones mentioned the event as yet, heres a hint the area has its own kind of wild cat.

The Longleat Lion Enclosure Loop?

That would keep me pedalling fast

It would put a whole new meaning to food stop! Plus the event organisers could save money by not having to have a broom waggon and they could sell any left over bikes.

topcattim

Looks like I have a different opinion on this to the majority. Of course the roads are open, and you have a legal right to be there. So it is "right" in that sense.

Your OP suggests that the reason you want to be there is related to the effort that the organisers have put in - to map out the route, to set out the signs, and to organise a whole load of others who will be doing the same. So, even if you don't stop at the feedstops, or use the start-finish facilities, you are still benefiting from someone else's effort. Regardless of how you feel about any profit that the organisers make, essentially by riding the route in this way, you are taking for free something that has cost somebody some effort and that others are paying for.

Some people might and will argue that others are stupid to pay for it, and that an individual doing it for free doesn't harm anyone. But if everybody thought like that, then there would be nobody on the roads for those people to ride with. Unless they bothered to organise it themselves - in which case they would have to put the effort in themselves, and they may even want to charge somebody else to join in. And then you'd have a sportive....

rolf_f

I think I sort of agree with topcattim!

I did ride the Grimpeurs de Wolds one year with a friend who had paid. The reason I didn't was that I'd paid the year before and turned up on the wrong day! I still rode the route that day and emailed the organisers to claim my T shirt as I'd effectively paid for it (and mention that they hadn't taken all their signs down) and they didn't reply. So I considered myself morally justified going the following year and not paying (and I'd have actually felt wrong paying!).

But I did feel a bit guilty cycling around without the number and in other circumstances I wouldn't do it. You can always go another week - the routes are available on the websites and if you have a GPS you can follow that just as well as the route signs.

raymondo60

A 'one-off' situation, like 'I wish I had remembered to enter that sportive but I'll ride it anyway' could be forgiven under most circumstances. A habitual 'I'm going to exploit the event without paying' gatecrasher would be another matter. I was actually 'invited' to join a local charity ride one Sunday last year when out on my own; saw a few riders up ahead, asked what they were doing etc, and ended up riding the rest of the course with them at their behest. It's the 'spirit' of the event that we must honour, surely.

bigmat

Rolf F wrote:

I think I sort of agree with topcattim!

I did ride the Grimpeurs de Wolds one year with a friend who had paid. The reason I didn't was that I'd paid the year before and turned up on the wrong day! I still rode the route that day and emailed the organisers to claim my T shirt as I'd effectively paid for it (and mention that they hadn't taken all their signs down) and they didn't reply. So I considered myself morally justified going the following year and not paying (and I'd have actually felt wrong paying!).

But I did feel a bit guilty cycling around without the number and in other circumstances I wouldn't do it. You can always go another week - the routes are available on the websites and if you have a GPS you can follow that just as well as the route signs.

Are you doing it this year Rolf? Starts / finishes at my old school! Doing it this year for first time since the inaugural one (2008?)

topcattim

Raymondo60 wrote:

A 'one-off' situation, like 'I wish I had remembered to enter that sportive but I'll ride it anyway' could be forgiven under most circumstances.

I'm not moralising (at least I hope I'm not! ) and I'm not claiming to be perfect, but I'm interested by the logic here. Is there something distinct about sportive riding in this sense? Could we say in a restaurant, "I wish I'd remembered to bring my money, and I'm a regular customer and will come here some time again in the future, but today I'll eat for free"?

raymondo60

topcattim wrote:

Raymondo60 wrote:

A 'one-off' situation, like 'I wish I had remembered to enter that sportive but I'll ride it anyway' could be forgiven under most circumstances.

I'm not moralising (at least I hope I'm not! ) and I'm not claiming to be perfect, but I'm interested by the logic here. Is there something distinct about sportive riding in this sense? Could we say in a restaurant, "I wish I'd remembered to bring my money, and I'm a regular customer and will come here some time again in the future, but today I'll eat for free"?

Yeah, I didn't express that as well as I could have. Rather my own example then, where I came upon an organised ride while it was happening and tagged along etc. What I meant was 'If you do it regularly and intend to do so' then that could be considered bad form. Hope that's clearer!

topcattim

Raymondo60 wrote:

Raymondo60 wrote:

topcattim wrote:

Raymondo60 wrote:

A 'one-off' situation, like 'I wish I had remembered to enter that sportive but I'll ride it anyway' could be forgiven under most circumstances.

I'm not moralising (at least I hope I'm not! ) and I'm not claiming to be perfect, but I'm interested by the logic here. Is there something distinct about sportive riding in this sense? Could we say in a restaurant, "I wish I'd remembered to bring my money, and I'm a regular customer and will come here some time again in the future, but today I'll eat for free"?

Yeah, I didn't express that as well as I could have. Rather my own example then, where I came upon an organised ride while it was happening and tagged along etc. What I meant was 'If you do it regularly and intend to do so' then that could be considered bad form. Hope that's clearer!

I was actually 'invited' to join a local charity ride one Sunday last year when out on my own; saw a few riders up ahead, asked what they were doing etc, and ended up riding the rest of the course with them at their behest. It's the 'spirit' of the event that we must honour, surely.

You are forgiven my son ! Yes indeed that situation seems entirely in the spirit of why we all love cycling.

danlikesbikes

Raymondo60 wrote:

Yeah, I didn't express that as well as I could have. Rather my own example then, where I came upon an organised ride while it was happening and tagged along etc. What I meant was 'If you do it regularly and intend to do so' then that could be considered bad form. Hope that's clearer!

Playing devils advocate here.

All well and good you as an individual turning up and doing it as a one off but what if the organises have 100 people pay and 100 other good honest people turn up and ride without paying alongside the 100 paying people. Numbers are extreme but I think that @topcattim's point was that generally most people are quite genuine, but just because you do it as a one off if others are also doing it it doesn't make it right.

As Ugo has suggested I guess the organisers work into their numbers that some people will turn up and ride anyway without paying.

BTW I'm not having a go at you or the OP just trying to add to the debate

de_sisti

topcattim wrote:

Some people might and will argue that others are stupid to pay for it, and that an individual doing it for free doesn't harm anyone. But if everybody thought like that, then ...perhaps the organisers will realise that in order to stop such things happening, it might be a good idea to reduce the entry fee to a reasonable price, therefore making the event more
appealing to others, thus giving their event more of a chance to sell out.

Just sayin' .

I know a woman who did just such a thing on the Marmotte (2009).

topcattim

De Sisti wrote:

topcattim wrote:

Some people might and will argue that others are stupid to pay for it, and that an individual doing it for free doesn't harm anyone. But if everybody thought like that, then ...perhaps the organisers will realise that in order to stop such things happening, it might be a good idea to reduce the entry fee to a reasonable price, therefore making the event more
appealing to others, thus giving their event more of a chance to sell out.

Just sayin' .

But we've been round this one lots of times before on BR. Sportives cost a lot. Some people say that is because the organisers are ripping off the punters. The organisers say they don't make that much money. I don't suppose you or I really know how much their % profit is. (By the way, I've never organised a sportive but have ridden a fair few).

But the issue of how much profit the organisers make is unrelated to the morality of riding them for free, isn't it?

ddraver

topcattim wrote:

Raymondo60 wrote:

A 'one-off' situation, like 'I wish I had remembered to enter that sportive but I'll ride it anyway' could be forgiven under most circumstances.

I'm not moralising (at least I hope I'm not! ) and I'm not claiming to be perfect, but I'm interested by the logic here. Is there something distinct about sportive riding in this sense? Could we say in a restaurant, "I wish I'd remembered to bring my money, and I'm a regular customer and will come here some time again in the future, but today I'll eat for free"?

Not if you ate their food and drank their wine. If you just sat on the pavement outside the door (ie in a public place) then yes... (why you would want to do this is a different question)

Personally i have no particular need for yet another crap bidon or rubbish t-shirt and I have a stack of out of date energy bars and gels anyway. If there was one outside my door or on roads i rode usually, then I'd hop on yes. ( I would nt travel anywhere for one mind, think that's a bit rich...)

Personally i'd draw the line at a race, so thinhs like MTB 24hr races or Merida (or whoever it is now) would be out)

rolf_f

BigMat wrote:

Rolf F wrote:

I think I sort of agree with topcattim!

I did ride the Grimpeurs de Wolds one year with a friend who had paid. The reason I didn't was that I'd paid the year before and turned up on the wrong day! I still rode the route that day and emailed the organisers to claim my T shirt as I'd effectively paid for it (and mention that they hadn't taken all their signs down) and they didn't reply. So I considered myself morally justified going the following year and not paying (and I'd have actually felt wrong paying!).

But I did feel a bit guilty cycling around without the number and in other circumstances I wouldn't do it. You can always go another week - the routes are available on the websites and if you have a GPS you can follow that just as well as the route signs.

Are you doing it this year Rolf? Starts / finishes at my old school! Doing it this year for first time since the inaugural one (2008?)

TBH, I've got out of the habit of doing Sportives so I hadn't thought about it. I rather like the route though and it's a tempting thought.

banana pilot

Primera's Dorset Knobbler? It's for charity...

verylonglegs

I can't help but feel that aside from all the supposed wrongs and rights of it what is being over-looked is that you are a local. I dare anyone to suggest that because an organised event is in town you are meant to avoid any contact with it for fear of being accused of not playing fair or being a freeloader because that is nonsense imo. Get out there and ride it if you want I say, you aren't taking advantage of anyone's effort in signposting the route because you probably already know more about the area than them anyway.

Grill

Ain't no thing. I never eat their food or drink their drinks anyways. If sportives were still reasonably priced I wouldn't have a problem with it but considering recent increases I'll pay for audaxes and crash sportives (only if they're local and I have nothing better to do).