Fox 2014

lawman

We've got a thread for Rockshox so may as well have one for Fox!

http://www.ridefox.com/subhome.php?m=bike&ref=topnav

All the new forks and shocks are up, 27.5 forks across the line from 100mm upwards, should pave the way for more shorter travel 27.5 bikes. All damping tunes have been updated so hopefully they won't need extra oil to stop them diving and they all seem to come in black or white. Float X CTD replaces DHX air and has bottom out adjustment as well as new CTD tune. Not sure on pricing but I imagine they'll be inline with current prices.

rockmonkeysc

So still overpriced then?
Replacing the DHX air with a CTD shock sounds like a bad idea. Air shocks are getting more popular with downhill riders wanting too save weight but they will want more adjustment than CTD allows.
I have heard of quite a few Float CTD rear shocks failing. They get very noisy and notchy before loosing their damping oil.

lawman

RockmonkeySC wrote:

So still overpriced then?
Replacing the DHX air with a CTD shock sounds like a bad idea. Air shocks are getting more popular with downhill riders wanting too save weight but they will want more adjustment than CTD allows.
I have heard of quite a few Float CTD rear shocks failing. They get very noisy and notchy before loosing their damping oil.

The price of the 34 is rediculous granted, but the rest aren't that bad value imo considering the performance you get. My 32's feel so much better than my rev's its unreal, but the new pike does sound like it addresses the issues I have with most Rockshox forks, that rely to much on the air spring rather than the damper.

Tbh I'm expecting a DH specific air shock possibly in proto form at Sea Otter for MY2015, I agree it seems odd, but the Float X is an enduro shock primarily rather than for DH use, I can't remember the last time I saw a DHX air on any DH rig tbh, so it is a gap they need to fill, Cane creek and Rockshox have the AIr DH market all to themselves atm.

rockmonkeysc

No one uses the DHX air for downhill because it's crap!
I'm not sure about Fox forks being better than Rockshox, they have a different feel which suits different people. Personally I can't get on with my mates Fox 40's but I think my Boxxers are excellent. He doesn't like my Boxxers but loves his 40's.
To me Rockshox forks feel more responsive and lively while Fox feel a bit dead but others say that Fox feel more controlled and Rockshox don't feel as well damped.
It's just a preference thing.

supersonic

But with RS you can ramp the LSC to where you please, then set the blow off force - so you can ride it on the damper if you so wish. The Charger damper augments that adjustment with multi speed rebound circuit.

lawman

I just can't seem to get on with my Rev's, probably part of the reason the 456 sits in the garage a lot of the time. As I've said before I personally found a sweet spot on most CTD forks I tried out, I'm sure others won't and in that sense I think CTD is a step back. Hopefully the re-tune will sort out the niggles and they can make the most of the potential they have, the two sets of 34's I've tried have felt really stiff and stable and if the new forks use the damper better they'll be hard to beat. The new Pike does look very good though, will have to check them out.

supersonic

I think Fox have to be careful with the retune though - if many riders like the feel of the old CTD, then they change the tune, then they might hate any new forks they might get!

This is why I think fully adjustable compression damping is such a good idea.

lawman

Very true, doesn't seem to be many fans out there! I never touched the Descent mode, was just too divey. The trail settings were much better, I just set it in the middle and left it, much like I do with my RLC's. I think a few more clicks on the trail adjust would be good, but I can see why they stuck with 3 as it matches the CTD shocks, so I can see the logic. I was hoping they'd bring back the RLC or plug the RC2 damper in the 34 though, and basically make a light-weigh air sprung RC4 shock to match, but I'm sure there's scope to find the right setup with what they have.

supersonic

RLC was just about the best damper out there - it will be missed!

Clank

RockmonkeySC wrote:

I have heard of quite a few Float CTD rear shocks failing. They get very noisy and notchy before loosing their damping oil.

Untrue.

Some bypass the noisy/notchy phase and go straight to 'leak'. Mine's going in at the weekend to be looked at :evil:

It's not a retune Fox need, it's 'durability'.

bennett_346

FWIW my fox CTD rear shock has blew up at the damper several times in spectacular fashion, and Mojo can't even fix it under warranty.

I say CTD but its an RP3 (which is what CTD used to be called before they renamed it).

lawman

bennett_346 wrote:

FWIW my fox CTD rear shock has blew up at the damper several times in spectacular fashion, and Mojo can't even fix it under warranty.

I say CTD but its an RP3 (which is what CTD used to be called before they renamed it).

Well it's not CTD is it then?! :roll: As retarded things to say go, that my friend is pretty darn retarded...

bennett_346

Well, it is, it has a lever that switches it between climb, trail and descent modes which equate to different compression settings, and it's made by fox...

Also noticed something, once this is on a bike and attached at the eyelet to a linkage, how is anyone with fingers supposed to adjust the rebound on this?

lawman

bennett_346 wrote:

Well, it is, it has a lever that switches it between climb, trail and descent modes which equate to different compression settings, and it's made by fox...

Also noticed something, once this is on a bike and attached at the eyelet to a linkage, how is anyone with fingers supposed to adjust the rebound on this?

In the same way a BSO is exactly like a Santa Cruz V10... Shock and fork technology advances quickly and I imagine there are very few parts on your shock that are shared with a CTD.

I did think that, but its hard to tell from that angle.

bennett_346

Yeah except this is renamed to fool the masses with too much money (read Surrey Hills Mtb'ers) into thinking they need this because it's new and revolutionary.

It's just an RP3 with some improved internals.

EH_Rob

fox should stick to making clothes instead of dabbling in suspension.

rockmonkeysc

Or buy Marzocchi's designs. Marzocchi are great at making suspension but crap at business. Fox are great at business, not as good at making suspension.

bennett_346

I'd rather have Marzocchi at the minute, comparable prices to fox, look far better and have a three year warranty (without dealing with Mojo, who for want of a better word have bullshitted me out of warranty repairs a few times before).

rockmonkeysc

Marzocchi forks are about the best there are at the moment, particularly if you want longer travel forks.

lawman

bennett_346 wrote:

I'd rather have Marzocchi at the minute, comparable prices to fox, look far better and have a three year warranty (without dealing with Mojo, who for want of a better word have bullshitted me out of warranty repairs a few times before).

Weird, they gave me brand new Kashima crown/steerer unit when I had mine serviced last year, I didn't even know there was a problem Compared to TF Tuned who completety ruined my rev's and wanted nothing to do with them, I'd say Mojo have been far better and are always extremely helpful.

Marzocchi would be good, but they are possibly the worst run company in the industry.

bennett_346

I've never used TF tuned before so i'm not comparing them. But for what it's worth my RP3 has been off 3 times in 12 months due to damper seal failure and the last two times they've taken it away and once it was in their hands decided to tell me it wasn't a warranty job (load of crap as its a broken damper within the 24 month warranty period) and charged £100 to fix. Reluctantly agreed since i can hardly fix that myself and it came back with the air seals replaced and fukkall done to the damper.

rockmonkeysc

TF Tuned have serviced my forks and shocks for the last five or six years and done some major upgrades to my Lyriks and every time they have come back to me better than new. At a guess I would say i have probably used them around 12 times without any problems.

lawman

bennett_346 wrote:

I've never used TF tuned before so i'm not comparing them. But for what it's worth my RP3 has been off 3 times in 12 months due to damper seal failure and the last two times they've taken it away and once it was in their hands decided to tell me it wasn't a warranty job (load of crap as its a broken damper within the 24 month warranty period) and charged £100 to fix. Reluctantly agreed since i can hardly fix that myself and it came back with the air seals replaced and fukkall done to the damper.

In that case, and given your "less is better" approach to bikes, I suggest you get a hardtail

bennett_346

I have one too

A 456 evo with marzocchi forks.

Dick Scruttock

All the fox forks I have ridden are night and day better than the Revelation WC I used to have. I hated that fork with a passion.

Hob Nob

bennett_346 wrote:

Yeah except this is renamed to fool the masses with too much money (read Surrey Hills Mtb'ers) into thinking they need this because it's new and revolutionary.

It's just an RP3 with some improved internals.

Just like your RP3 is the same as a old 1999 Vanilla Float you mean? Well, it's air, it looks like a shock & it's got a lever on it...

:roll:

RockmonkeySC wrote:

Or buy Marzocchi's designs. Marzocchi are great at making suspension but crap at business. Fox are great at business, not as good at making suspension.

Does that include the designs that used string to hold the cartridge together?

There is a reason why Marzocchi has been on the brink of collapse for years. No one buys them.

jairaj

I wish Marzocchi would start doing the 44 series again. I'd love to buy a 44 RC3 Ti but no one has them any more.

bennett_346

Hob Nob wrote:

bennett_346 wrote:

Yeah except this is renamed to fool the masses with too much money (read Surrey Hills Mtb'ers) into thinking they need this because it's new and revolutionary.

It's just an RP3 with some improved internals.

Just like your RP3 is the same as a old 1999 Vanilla Float you mean? Well, it's air, it looks like a shock & it's got a lever on it...

Er yes actually, the internals are still pretty much the same lol. It was and still is a nitrogen charged damper with an internal floating piston and an air spring with a self adjusting negative spring. The compression lever did and still does increase the low speed compression damping.

I was even able to follow instructions from a 2001 service guide to successfully service the air spring assembly on mine.

CTD is a rename of a decade old product, simple as. Yes it has been tweaked to improve it obviously and there's nothing at all wrong with that, but my point is Fox themselves, along with all the media outlets are touting it as the next big thing and as a must have if you want to ride this new fangled "Enduro" on your bike (which must have at least 760mm wide carbon bars, else it won't physically move...) and trying to trick people into believing it is innovative.

It isn't really, it's just a new name for something that already worked and didn't need the branding it has had put on it from a consumers point of view.

Great business wise, but can you see why i am opposed to this mindless BUY THIS - VERY NEW AWESOME MUST HAVE mentality?

Thewaylander

He is pretty much spot on here with the rear shocks.

There seals kit hasn't changed in years and its the sames seals accross the range of air shocks on the rear. and to do a seals (air chamber seals change) is exactly the same accross there range. float, RP2, RP23 it's pretty much the same design accross with some tweaks.. and huge price differences

Hob Nob

bennett_346 wrote:

Great business wise, but can you see why i am opposed to this mindless BUY THIS - VERY NEW AWESOME MUST HAVE mentality?

Not really, they don't do anything any different to any other business?

Their goal is to sell you product, which is what they do. You don't have to buy it...

lawman

People just pick on Fox because they have a thing against them, you want pure BS Jeremiah Boobar on the Pike release video has the crown there...