Aura 5 wheels

fitnesswontlie
fitnesswontlie Posts: 88
edited April 2013 in Road buying advice
What do you think of these wheels compared to the standard Trek domane 5.2 Bontrager race wheels.


http://bontrager.com/model/09776


They are a little heavier in weight however they do make it easier to increase your speed.

Thinking about purchasing just wondering if anyone has had any use with them.

thanks

Comments

  • fitnesswontlie
    fitnesswontlie Posts: 88
    sorry I have just posted link i forgot. So amateur :mrgreen:
  • racingcondor
    racingcondor Posts: 1,434
    Personally I wouldn't spend £1,000 on training wheels and if I was spending a lot on race wheels I would be looking for stiffness, tubular rims and <1400g.

    These look like a modern shaped aero profile (no idea if anyone has tested them though) and have the benefits of a 23mm wide rim but they look to me to be primarily designed to look good (nothing wrong with that but in my opinion it's a lot to spend on a disposable part).

    If I was spending £800+ on a wheelset I'd be looking at either the above mentioned very light carbon tubs or some hand built Alu clinchers with top of the range hubs (that should last for several replaced rims).
  • fitnesswontlie
    fitnesswontlie Posts: 88
    racingcondor wrote:
    Personally I wouldn't spend £1,000 on training wheels and if I was spending a lot on race wheels I would be looking for stiffness, tubular rims and <1400g.

    These look like a modern shaped aero profile (no idea if anyone has tested them though) and have the benefits of a 23mm wide rim but they look to me to be primarily designed to look good (nothing wrong with that but in my opinion it's a lot to spend on a disposable part).

    If I was spending £800+ on a wheelset I'd be looking at either the above mentioned very light carbon tubs or some hand built Alu clinchers with top of the range hubs (that should last for several replaced rims).

    I get a good deal if I go with Bontrager and these wheels would be around £700 to me but I may have a look around on the bontrager site a bit more and see if i can spot what I want. I want to keep it Alu as I dont like the feel of carbon wheels i cant get used to them I had a set on my old 2008 trek madone and sold them.
  • pkripper
    pkripper Posts: 652
    They're not the same, but I have been very impressed with my aeolus 5s - if I was looking for everyday aero it would be a straight fight between these and mavic cosmic carbones.

    But then I can't justify it so won't be doing that!
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,337
    fitnesswontlie wrote:

    I get a good deal if I go with Bontrager and these wheels would be around £700 to me but I may have a look around on the bontrager site a bit more and see if i can spot what I want. I want to keep it alloy as I dont like the feel of carbon wheels i cant get used to them I had a set on my old 2008 trek madone and sold them.

    You do get a good discount, not necessarily a good deal. These Look-like-a-PRO wheels offer very little in all respects. They are not light, they are not built with particularly high quality parts and the so called aero advantage is hardly worth mentioning. So what exactly are you paying for? Well, these rims with a carbon laminate glued to them are very expensive... but you have to see them for what they are: the carbon is not structural, so there is no extra rigidity or strength to benefit from, they are effectively spoilers on the roof of a Ford Fiesta... if you believe that makes the Ford Fiesta a better car, there you go, these are definitively for you... :wink:
    left the forum March 2023
  • fitnesswontlie
    fitnesswontlie Posts: 88
    ugo.santalucia wrote:
    fitnesswontlie wrote:

    I get a good deal if I go with Bontrager and these wheels would be around £700 to me but I may have a look around on the bontrager site a bit more and see if i can spot what I want. I want to keep it alloy as I dont like the feel of carbon wheels i cant get used to them I had a set on my old 2008 trek madone and sold them.

    You do get a good discount, not necessarily a good deal. These Look-like-a-PRO wheels offer very little in all respects. They are not light, they are not built with particularly high quality parts and the so called aero advantage is hardly worth mentioning. So what exactly are you paying for? Well, these rims with a carbon laminate glued to them are very expensive... but you have to see them for what they are: the carbon is not structural, so there is no extra rigidity or strength to benefit from, they are effectively spoilers on the roof of a Ford Fiesta... if you believe that makes the Ford Fiesta a better car, there you go, these are definitively for you... :wink:

    Cheers bud and yeah good deal and good purchase are not the same so I mite just sit it out for a bit and see whats on offer. But I will stick with Alu for comfort reasons and bontrager for cost reasons I will jsut shop a bit more first.
  • pianoman
    pianoman Posts: 706
    So if the carbon is simply a "fairing" through which the spokes go you're saying there's no additional rigidity? Interesting that, given a recent test I read about where American Classic Carbon 58's had a more "direct" feel because they combine an alu brake track with structural carbon as per the FFWD range. That might account for why I've owned SRAM S60's and Vision T42 wheels and actually preferred the feel and responsiveness from the Visions, plus the wider rim give a reassuring, stable feel too. The new generation American Classic 58's have the wider rim as per the likes of HED. Might be worth having a look at them?
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,337
    PianoMan wrote:
    So if the carbon is simply a "fairing" through which the spokes go you're saying there's no additional rigidity? Interesting that, given a recent test I read about where American Classic Carbon 58's had a more "direct" feel because they combine an alu brake track with structural carbon as per the FFWD range. That might account for why I've owned SRAM S60's and Vision T42 wheels and actually preferred the feel and responsiveness from the Visions, plus the wider rim give a reassuring, stable feel too. The new generation American Classic 58's have the wider rim as per the likes of HED. Might be worth having a look at them?

    The price of bicycle components is unrealistic... when I walk by BikeLab in Richmond I wonder if they live on a different planet from mine.... the market treats you like a spoiled kid with too much money in his pockets. The so called upgrades are for the most junk that you don't need.
    You want value for money? Get a Brompton... that is 800 quid well spent or get something from a brand that doesn't actually spend half of their budget to tell the world "buy us, we are so great".
    You will never hear me saying that a set of wheels on the 1 K mark are worth a punt... that will never happen I am afraid
    left the forum March 2023
  • fitnesswontlie
    fitnesswontlie Posts: 88
    PianoMan wrote:
    So if the carbon is simply a "fairing" through which the spokes go you're saying there's no additional rigidity? Interesting that, given a recent test I read about where American Classic Carbon 58's had a more "direct" feel because they combine an alu brake track with structural carbon as per the FFWD range. That might account for why I've owned SRAM S60's and Vision T42 wheels and actually preferred the feel and responsiveness from the Visions, plus the wider rim give a reassuring, stable feel too. The new generation American Classic 58's have the wider rim as per the likes of HED. Might be worth having a look at them?

    Are you referring to these Piano ?


    http://www.wiggle.co.uk/vision-trimax-t ... -wheelset/

    Just looking through the description do you not think 1720 g is heavy for wheels ?

    Thanks
  • smidsy
    smidsy Posts: 5,273
    PianoMan wrote:
    So if the carbon is simply a "fairing" through which the spokes go you're saying there's no additional rigidity? Interesting that, given a recent test I read about where American Classic Carbon 58's had a more "direct" feel because they combine an alu brake track with structural carbon as per the FFWD range.

    Be careul to compare comparible products.

    The wheels that mate an aluminium bed/brake surface with a carbon fairing (e.g. Shimano RS80, Mavic Cosmics, AC 58's etc.) are essentially an aluminium clincher with carbon stuck on between the spokes to look pretty.

    The above design is entirly different to a Carbon rim with the aluminium braking track/surface attached to the face of the carbon rim. In these wheels the only aluminium is the brake track, the actual wheel rim is carbon.
    Yellow is the new Black.
  • fitnesswontlie
    fitnesswontlie Posts: 88
    ok so I have decided to increase my budget quite a bit so I will wait a few weeks first but I am thinking these will do me just right.

    http://bontrager.com/model/10951
  • pkripper
    pkripper Posts: 652
    I don't see what the problem is. The fairing may not be structural but that's not necessarily a bad thing. The main thing about deeper section wheels is the aerodynamics, so however that is met, as long as the wheel performs ok, then it meets its purpose.

    So, do you need structural carbon? No, not at all. Some companies choose to make their wheels that way, others don't. Therefore, if the aura 5s meet your criteria for weight, aero, durability, braking etc, then buy them, especially if you can get a good deal.

    For what its worth, I would choose fairing over structural anyway, purely as my heds and bontragers that are built this way have been faultless. The one wheel I had that was structural carbon and from a very big manufacturer died as the rim cracked at a number of the spoke holes.
  • racingcondor
    racingcondor Posts: 1,434
    I don't have a big problem with them but I do think that (for instance) a set of DA hubs laced to Excellights (A23's or Pacenti if you want the width) with CX Rays would be a better wheel (probably closer to £600 and 2-300g lighter). The risk here is that we don't know that the hubs are any good and sure, the wide rim should be good but it may also give a harsh ride (again, we don't know). The DA/Excellight wheelset as well as being cheaper have hubs that will last and rims that can be chosen to suit the rider and their needs.

    I think we have to be honest and admit that the aero benefits are insignificant/irrelevant since we're not all TT specialists who race against elites so the main benefit of a deep rim is that they look good (something I'm happy to spend money on, just be honest about it).

    It's all down to opinion and personal preference in the end. My experience of factory wheels is that if things go wrong they can be an expensive mistake so if you're spending >£250ish it's worth thinking about it a little more.
  • pkripper
    pkripper Posts: 652
    racingcondor wrote:
    I don't have a big problem with them but I do think that (for instance) a set of DA hubs laced to Excellights (A23's or Pacenti if you want the width) with CX Rays would be a better wheel (probably closer to £600 and 2-300g lighter). The risk here is that we don't know that the hubs are any good and sure, the wide rim should be good but it may also give a harsh ride (again, we don't know). The DA/Excellight wheelset as well as being cheaper have hubs that will last and rims that can be chosen to suit the rider and their needs.

    I think we have to be honest and admit that the aero benefits are insignificant/irrelevant since we're not all TT specialists who race against elites so the main benefit of a deep rim is that they look good (something I'm happy to spend money on, just be honest about it).

    It's all down to opinion and personal preference in the end. My experience of factory wheels is that if things go wrong they can be an expensive mistake so if you're spending >£250ish it's worth thinking about it a little more.


    Why are the aero benefits insignificant / irrelevant?
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,337
    pkripper wrote:
    racingcondor wrote:
    I don't have a big problem with them but I do think that (for instance) a set of DA hubs laced to Excellights (A23's or Pacenti if you want the width) with CX Rays would be a better wheel (probably closer to £600 and 2-300g lighter). The risk here is that we don't know that the hubs are any good and sure, the wide rim should be good but it may also give a harsh ride (again, we don't know). The DA/Excellight wheelset as well as being cheaper have hubs that will last and rims that can be chosen to suit the rider and their needs.

    I think we have to be honest and admit that the aero benefits are insignificant/irrelevant since we're not all TT specialists who race against elites so the main benefit of a deep rim is that they look good (something I'm happy to spend money on, just be honest about it).

    It's all down to opinion and personal preference in the end. My experience of factory wheels is that if things go wrong they can be an expensive mistake so if you're spending >£250ish it's worth thinking about it a little more.


    Why are the aero benefits insignificant / irrelevant?

    Because they are... with the same power output they might give you half to one mph in particularly favourable occasions, that might happen for 5-10 minutes on a 2-3 hours ride... the rest of the time they either don't really contribute or they give you a hard time in cross winds. People seem to think that as an average on a sunday ride they will be 1 mph faster... which might happen for many reasons, but not for reduced aerodynamic drag of your rims
    left the forum March 2023
  • pkripper
    pkripper Posts: 652
    I have to say I don't agree. Following aerodynamic theory they will be contributing at any speed. If there is a weight penalty associated with them, then that may go some way to negating the effects, but there's not a significant penalty against an average wheel.

    Now, consider that for you, you may not think they'll give you any reasonable benefit. Fine. But, consider whether for example you're between groups on the club run - maybe the aero effects will allow you to stay with the faster group more readily, and hence get a greater overall training session in? What about the benefit of training and racing the same wheels - you're used to the handling, the weight distribution etc.

    Horses for courses - I know if I had the cash, aero wheels would be default all year round.
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,337
    pkripper wrote:
    I have to say I don't agree. Following aerodynamic theory they will be contributing at any speed. If there is a weight penalty associated with them, then that may go some way to negating the effects, but there's not a significant penalty against an average wheel.

    Now, consider that for you, you may not think they'll give you any reasonable benefit. Fine. But, consider whether for example you're between groups on the club run - maybe the aero effects will allow you to stay with the faster group more readily, and hence get a greater overall training session in? What about the benefit of training and racing the same wheels - you're used to the handling, the weight distribution etc.

    Horses for courses - I know if I had the cash, aero wheels would be default all year round.

    What people tend to forget is that a sunday ride is not a PRO race... the proportion of the time one spends at significant speed is very small, compared to the number of times one has to slow down, stop, restart, pick up speed etc... all these things require effort, which is made a bit easier by lighter rims... these rims are heavy... typically a light rim is 450 grams, even less... these are typically just shy of 600. When the speed drops, the aerodynamic advantage can be written off as insignificant, compared to road friction and various other losses.
    They do make marginal sense in time trialling, where the course has been chosen to avoid all these situation and some sort of constant speed can be maintained for longer... that said, some enjoy long rides on double carriages, where these wheels might give you a handful of watts advantage in the right conditions (or send you straight under a lorry on a day like today)
    left the forum March 2023
  • fitnesswontlie
    fitnesswontlie Posts: 88
    What people tend to forget is that a sunday ride is not a PRO race... the proportion of the time one spends at significant speed is very small, compared to the number of times one has to slow down, stop, restart, pick up speed etc... all these things require effort, which is made a bit easier by lighter rims... these rims are heavy... typically a light rim is 450 grams, even less... these are typically just shy of 600. When the speed drops, the aerodynamic advantage can be written off as insignificant, compared to road friction and various other losses.
    They do make marginal sense in time trialling, where the course has been chosen to avoid all these situation and some sort of constant speed can be maintained for longer... that said, some enjoy long rides on double carriages, where these wheels might give you a handful of watts advantage in the right conditions (or send you straight under a lorry on a day like today)[/quote]

    I do 100 mile rides on weekends and 50 milers when i can during the week. the 50 milers are more stop starts as I am crossing main roads and hit a few lights on route but the hundred miler i do in wales ruthin horse shoe pass and its clear roads no lights to worry about and nice open section roads so i can keep a good pace. Only thing I would say is we do come across some open plane for 2 mile that has cross winds but other than that it can be maintained speed. Theirs a few hills but nothing major the horse shoe being the main one really at the end. thanks for great advice though

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