do tyres really make this much difference?

danlightbulb

Hello everyone.

Hope all are well.

A month ago I switched my tyres from Conti Mountain King II (2.2") to Rubber Queens (2.4" front and 2.2" rear). Since I have done this I seem to have really struggled with fitness on the bike. Now obviously it has been winter for some time and because of this I have only managed a ride every 2 weeks as opposed to at least once per week in the previous summer. But still I seem to be really wrangling with the bike since I made the switch. It just feels so slow and hard to ride. Even on declines I seem to be having to pedal to maintain speed and all my climbs have reverted to granny ring crawls. I knew at the time I made the switch I was adding weight (+500g front and +250g rear give or take), but I don't want to pass the buck to the tyres if my fitness is to blame.

Is it me or is it these tyres?

Thanks
Dan

supersonic

Tyres can make a massive difference. And one doesn't exist that fits all purposes, is always some compromise. it's finding that compromise.

If you have gone from a lightweight tyre to something that is heavier with more tread and a stickier compound, it will be notably more draggy. But you should have improved grip.

danlightbulb

I *think* my grip on descents has improved, but to be honest I'm tiring myself out on the climbs so much that by the time I get to the descents I cant push it very hard.

I haven't invested in any black chilli or folding varieties, these are bog standard wire bead tyres.

I put them on because I was going to penmachno and i felt the extra strength would be useful on the rocks. My mate on Swalbe smart sams had a puncture on the rocky ground but my tyres were fine.

The last 2 sets of tyres I have brought I haven't felt happy with but I'm only paying cheap. I'm worried about paying expensive and then it makes no difference. The MKII's are slippy in the wet, and now the RQ are too damn heavy.

supersonic

I'd never buy wire tyres - for a small amount extra you get lighter weight, and often better compounds and sidewalls. The problem here is that you have bought the cheap ones I am afraid.

I'd invest in some better rubber.

step83

Looking at the tread they Rubber queens dont look to roll as well as the MKII's i'm going on the center block pattern. That with the added weight with increased rolling resistance may explain the issues your having. I may be wrong ill defer to people with more experience to confirm on that.

danlightbulb

I had this one before (2.2 wire bead cheap one - 680g):



And now I have this one on the front (in the 2.4 wire bead reinforced sidewall version - cheap one - 1050g):



I feel a post in buying advice coming on, I genuinely dont know where to start there is so much choice.

lawman

I wouldn't want to ride very far with a 1KG tyre and the 2.4 RQ is a huge tyre, my club are sponsored by conti and most use the 2.2 black chilli, the 2.4 is just too big for any xc type stuff. Tbh I reckon around 700-800g is the max I'd want on a tyre for any distance, the Hans Dampfs I have now are the most aggressive tyre I would run, they roll well, don't weigh too much and grip very well. Imo it's best to spend as much as you can on tyres as they will make a huge difference to how the bike rides.

bennett_346

To me, tyres make a huge difference to my endurance. I used to buy heavy but very grippy tyres, now i'm a more skilled rider i like light tyres with low profile treads. I can ride a good 3 hours longer over a days ride now i've switched to this type of tyre.

I would always rather have a faster tyre and rely on skill to stay planted as opposed to mechanical grip from the tyres. What good is a grippy tyre when you're struggling to stay focused from fatigue?

cooldad

Std Conti compounds are a bit rubbish, so you'll probably get more grip on a skinnier black chili at half the weight. Win win.

bluechair84

+1 for cooldad. You're not going to be getting the extra grip you were expecting with the bigger but cheap end Rubber Queen - their grip seems to come mainly from the more expensive Black Chili compound. I have the 2.2 and 2.4 RQ BC and love them.

Monty Dog

Wire bead tyres have heavy stiff sidewalls that add significantly to rolling resistance too. Go for lightweight tubeless tyres and you'll be amazed at how much better they roll.

The Rookie

Monty Dog wrote:

Wire bead tyres have heavy stiff sidewalls that add significantly to rolling resistance too.

Not true...in fact stiffer sidewalls usually reduce rolling resistance, but it's actually in the hysterysis.

bennett_346

Hmm, i don't think that's right.

bluechair84

Specialized had an article on here ages ago where they went on about 'their' use of hystersis analysis to create better tyres. I've not been able to find it though. I've found the steel bead actually gives more support on the DH bike. Heavier yes, but better in rock gardens than kevlar bead.

bennett_346

More supportive maybe but not faster rolling.

Briggo

OP, you need the 2.2 RQ's in black chilli flavour, awesome tyres.

Northwind

I was on OEM-spec rubber queens today, by chance. Yes they're fairly draggy, and yes they're not very grippy. Previously I've used the expensive ones and they were faster rolling and miles, miles grippier. These were a bit pants frankly- sorry. (I binned it on a tarmac corner in the end! Ridiculous)

PS, wire bead doesn't make tyres stiffer- sidewall design has nowt to do with the bead.

bluechair84

well, there's something about 2.5 wire highrollers! Bead or sidewall, they're my preference for DHing. But I wouldn't ever use a wire bead for general trail riding.

mrmonkfinger

My limited experience matches what cooldad said, BC are pricey but really rather jolly good.

felix.london

danlightbulb wrote:

Even on declines I seem to be having to pedal to maintain speed

Doesn't sound like you're riding very steep or fast descents so why go for such a huge tyre?

The 2.2" Black Chili versions of either of those tyres are awesome (I ride with a MK2 on the back and a RQ on the front)

I think going for the cheapest option will probably end up costing you more in the long run...as is usually the case

danlightbulb

felix.london wrote:

danlightbulb wrote:

Even on declines I seem to be having to pedal to maintain speed

Doesn't sound like you're riding very steep or fast descents so why go for such a huge tyre?

I was referring to moderate declines, where my bike seems to still want to slow down even with gravity assistance. On fast descents I believe them to be grippier, and they did very well (in my own limited experience) on the rocky descents at penmachno. Any better than a 2.2 MKII? I have no idea as couldn't compare the two side by side.

Sorry if this is turning into a buying advice post, but for general UK trail riding what sort of weight should I be aiming for? Sub 500g? I ride Cannock, Llandegla, Hopton, and north wales rocky trails on occasion. Is in the region of £30 per tyre a realistic price for something decent?

cooldad

I aim for around that weight, and hunt out bargains on Ebay - never actually paid that much for a tyre.
I only use Maxxis Ignitors though - Exception compound (soft).
Tyre choice is often what you feel confident with.

Thewaylander

i would say Sub 500 is hopeful, but definately round the 650/700 mark is doable

Northwind

I'd say worry less about weight, and more about the overall- and that's from a total weight weenie weight IMO is about the last consideration for a tyre, within reason, after durability, grip and drag. No point in going with something light like a Karma or a Fred and then crashing and puncturing everywhere after all, and you can get light-ish tyres like the Butcher Control which are still pretty draggy.

I prefer weight to punctures, and I'd rather have a draggy tyre than a massive crash But it's all a balance, some heavy tyres aren't that tough and some draggy tyres aren't that grippy, and sometimes too much drag just plain spoils your ride. 600g-ish is reasonable for everyday use I reckon, my race tyres are faster and my downhill tyres are heavier

danlightbulb

I dont feel the need to duplicate this in buying advice, but I'm looking at these 2 on bike discount:

http://www.bike-discount.de/shop/k3/a67 ... tubes.html
http://www.bike-discount.de/shop/k3/a98 ... sv-13.html

Seem a pretty good deal £55 ish for 2 tyres and inner tubes. Which tyre is best?

RQ's in the 2.2 black chilli protection variety come in at 650g about 100g heavier than either of these two. No package offer on these though that I can find.

Northwind

I have never punctured so much as when I had my Nobby Nics, and they were the tougher snakeskin version. Also, wore very fast. But quite good apart from that- decent predictable grip, good speed. Not really comparable to a rubber queen tbh- much faster, less grr.

lawman

Northwind wrote:

I have never punctured so much as when I had my Nobby Nics, and they were the tougher snakeskin version. Also, wore very fast. But quite good apart from that- decent predictable grip, good speed. Not really comparable to a rubber queen tbh- much faster, less grr.

I've never had a problem with any of the Nics I've used, when I ran them with tubes I had hardly any flats in about 2 years, yet had 2 t'other weekend on the Hans Dampfs, swings and round abouts I guess The Nics are good, but I found they have a tendency to lose grip at times, not often, but they will suddenly snap on occasion if you push abit too far. I've found Hans Dampfs to be much more predictable. Grippier? Possibly not, perhaps a smidge, but the biggest draw for me is how quickly I've gained confidence and trust in them and imo thats far more important than out right grip as the two don't always go hand in hand. It's alot of trial and error finding a tyre that suits you personally, but tbh you can't really go too far wrong with Schwalbe, Conti or Maxxis, it's just a case of finding which ones you prefer, and don't be afraid to mix and match either, a grippy front and fast rolling rear is the setup of choice over here in wales.

danlightbulb

Well I've just ordered a pair of MKII's in black chilli protection variety from ze germans so really hoping to see an improvement and no more worrying about tyres for a couple of years.

Thanks for all the comments.

concorde

RQs are the muts nuts:-) But I'd only use a black chilli one up front. Chuch any old fast rolling tyre on the back, grip is far less important there and rolling resistance far more important. RQ up front and a Rocket Ron on the back to start the summer for me :-)

Northwind

Proper black chili rubber queens are pretty good- but the non-chili ones are incredibly awful. I rode a demo bike that had a pair on them, and after sliding down the hill with less grip than my cross bike has, I lost the front end and crashed, on a dry tarmac corner. Yet they're still pretty slow. I've not ridden a "quality" tyre this bad since the 80s.

(it was a £3000 Orange incidentally, real nice choice of kit for such an expensive bike!)

cooldad

Northwind wrote:

Proper black chili rubber queens are pretty good- but the non-chili ones are incredibly awful. I rode a demo bike that had a pair on them, and after sliding down the hill with less grip than my cross bike has, I lost the front end and crashed, on a dry tarmac corner. Yet they're still pretty slow. I've not ridden a "quality" tyre this bad since the 80s.

(it was a £3000 Orange incidentally, real nice choice of kit for such an expensive bike!)

Aye lad we'll be havin none o them poncy foreign foods raund here like.