Are you missing out if you use flats?

bennett_346

Tbh i've had far worse crashes on flats, since you fly from the bike violently instead of it anchoring you down and slowing you down.

dusk

I think spd's have saved me from far more crashes than they have created as I have far more control over my bike. If you're properly used to spd's then unclipping is second nature too.

bennett_346

Your foot comes out if your ankle twists far enough anyway, long before you can do yourself any damage.

Northwind

bennett_346 wrote:

Your foot comes out if your ankle twists far enough anyway, long before you can do yourself any damage.

As long as your foot twists in the crash, in the right direction. Seriously, how many people believe that flats are more likely to make a bad situation worse than SPDs? To me it is just nonsense.

njee20

To be fair they come out anyway if you crash. Road pedals have a far more 'deliberate' clipping out action, but still release when you crash. Like ski bindings innit.

bennett_346

Exactly.

Northwind

njee20 wrote:

To be fair they come out anyway if you crash.

Nah, not always... I've found myself in a heap on the ground trying to unclip one or both legs (I remember one of the glentress rangers telling a story of finding someone who'd dislocated his kneecap but was still clipped in, they ended up unscrewing the pedals from the bike)

bennett_346

Most likely had them way too tight then.

tarbot18

As above i think its a marmite subject you likey or dont .
I came from a commuting and shhhh (racer) backround and had been using spd s for years plus the guys who dragged me into mtb ing where using them so i just assumed that was the way to go.

For xc stuff they are brilliant i feel safer being clipped in as my foot is secure and cant slip off the pedal etc however on more technical stuff ie trail centres you havent got the option for a quick foot out or bail out.

I do have mine adjusted to the lowest setting so they do clip out very easily and in my exhaustive crash testing in the ice and mud over the winter i have proved my feet come out very easily while bike and i part ways....

There are pro s and cons for both flat pedals are probably better for technique but as im institutionalised ie same job 17 years and a northerner i dont do change well.

Northwind

bennett_346 wrote:

Most likely had them way too tight then.

Nope- at least not in my case, can't speak for the other guy. You unclip if you twist right, so if you don't twist in that way mid-crash, you don't unclip. Most times I came loose but sometimes, you don't. It's not just me, seen it happen to plenty of other people.

You can use dual-release or loosen them off but that's all a compromise- I couldn't get on with loose pedals at all, felt like a worst-of-both-worlds option but ymmv.

bennett_346

Yeah but surely if your ankle twists left inwards to the bike it doesnt matter, because it cant twist more than a few mm and therefore can't be sprained...

Northwind

Lots more ways to injure yourself than that though. Ankles are pretty robust for sideloading tbh, knees not so much.

But I'm thinking also of just general "aargh I've spanked my face off a rock" moments. Tucking and rolling's definitely easier to do with flats than spds, it's not just a case of dismounting, but dismounting well.

If I sound anti-spd, I'm not- I reckon they're better, but they're not an option for me because of a foobarred leg, I had to learn flats instead. I can run it pretty close, but it's difficult- you need to think far more about your pedalling and footwork than you do on SPDs, which to me just makes SPDs better. But there's pluses and minuses to both for sure.

bennett_346

Fair enough.

paulbox

I use SPD's on three of my bikes and am currently running flats on my Yeti. I do find SPD's more efficient but like having flats for messing about.

njee20

You unclip if you twist right, so if you don't twist in that way mid-crash, you don't unclip.

Or left, cleats don't care, you can twist heel in, but there's a wheel in the way usually!

FWIW I do agree with you - no crash is likely to be made worse by ones inability to get your feet off the pedals! Whilst I think the big high speed crashes are fine with clips it's the slow speed ones that can be made worse, just toppling over where you don't/can't unclip. I did wrench my back once when I hit a stump, bike stopped, I just pivoted over the bars and inertia carried my bike over me, didn't unclip until it hit the ground. That hurt.

ddraver

Yeah, agree with njee (as usual). Slow speed clipless moments obviously occur much more (given that the pedals are the direct casue), and can be pretty epic if you re next to a big drop but I ve never had a proper "crash" where my feet have nt come out of the pedals

rockmonkeysc

I use spd's for xc and downhill, wouldn't go back to flats but others who I ride with have tried them and hated them.
The only time I use flats now is when racing downhill in muddy conditions when I can't afford to be unable to clip back in after putting a foot down in mud and getting clogged cleats. I have seen people loose seconds trying to clip in after putting a foot down in boggy conditions.

cgarossi

I use Crank Brothers Egg Beaters on my bike. They are a good middle ground. Shimano SPDs tend to be a little too tight even on their loosest setting so CBs provide a lot of float and easy to get out of if you need to.

I would never go back to flats. I tried them for a short time and found that my feet were didn't feel secure enough on technical sections. It felt as though I could fall off more easily on flats than clipless.

Northwind

njee20 wrote:

Or left, cleats don't care,

I meant right as in correct, rather than right as in not left

njee20

Aye, and it will depend on which pedal - on the left then left is right (it was a poor attempt at humour!), I just meant there is no right way - you can twist either way and they'll release just fine.

stubs

I am old and wrinkly enough to remember when lots of people used toe straps to ride off road and still have the fading scars to prove it. SPDs are brilliant some very clever engineering means you can monster a climb and not unclip, yet if things go wrong you unclip without even realisng you did it. I have never personally come across anyone who hurt themselves because of SPDs but nasty injuries from feet jammed in toe straps were very common and gruesome.

Northwind

stubs wrote:

nasty injuries from feet jammed in toe straps were very common and gruesome.

We rode round kirroughtree black a couple of years back and one of the others turned up on proper old-school toestraps... No idea how she could ride like that, mcmoab didn't go terribly well mind but every dismount looked like a narrowly averted trip in an ambulance.

Kids! This is the bull**** we had to put up with, so that you could have good stuff!

stubs

Northwind wrote:

Kids! This is the bull**** we had to put up with, so that you could have good stuff!

We had to leave school at the age of 3 and do 23 hour shifts up at t'mill and all we got was a dry crust and a hole in t'road to shelter from snow. But we were appy.

bennett_346

Northwind wrote:

stubs wrote:

nasty injuries from feet jammed in toe straps were very common and gruesome.

We rode round kirroughtree black a couple of years back and one of the others turned up on proper old-school toestraps... No idea how she could ride like that, mcmoab didn't go terribly well mind but every dismount looked like a narrowly averted trip in an ambulance.

Kids! This is the bull**** we had to put up with, so that you could have good stuff!

Back in't your day.

pesky_jones

stubs wrote:

Northwind wrote:

Kids! This is the bull**** we had to put up with, so that you could have good stuff!

We had to leave school at the age of 3 and do 23 hour shifts up at t'mill and all we got was a dry crust and a hole in t'road to shelter from snow. But we were appy.

haha good stuff

EH_Rob

stubs wrote:

Northwind wrote:

Kids! This is the bull**** we had to put up with, so that you could have good stuff!

We had to leave school at the age of 3 and do 23 hour shifts up at t'mill and all we got was a dry crust and a hole in t'road to shelter from snow. But we were appy.

That still happens in Lancashire from what I understand, only now youth unemployment and teenage pregnancy rates are much higher.

stubs

Since the great whippet famine of 2007 and the flat cap dieback disease outbreak theres been nothing to do in Lancashire apart from shagging and rioting