The Great Energy Gel Scam

thegreatdivide

DavidJB wrote:

thegreatdivide wrote:

What could be easier (apart from throwing the wrapper away) than taking a bottle from your pocket, opeing the end with your mouth, squeezing a shot of gel in, then closing the bottle and sticking it back in your pocket. No fuss and no mess.

Taking a gel out of your pocket, opening it, eating it and putting it back in your pocket...its not rocket science.

No, it’s not rocket science, it’s sticky pockets.

rstabler11

Imposter wrote:

rstabler11 wrote:

and the skin will get your clothes gunky when you put it back in your pocket.

it's biodegradable - throw it over the hedge...

Apparently not (well they take 2 years to biodegrade, which isn't really acceptable). Here's a source.

According to the gf (a biologist) the general rule of thumb is if it grows in England, feel free to chuck it, but if we have to import it then put it in the trash. So apples, strawberries etc. are OK to chuck but not bananas and oranges.

EDIT:
Read the rest of the thread, I don't know why it is but the internet definitely says 2 years, maybe its less. I guess it just depends, the article was about Ben Nevis, which I can definitely see a skin surviving on longer than if it was in the gutter.

neeb

NewTTer wrote:

I do toss banana skins, as the local fauna will consume it well before the quoted 2 year decomposition rate

Depends on where you are. Probably fine into a hedgerow in the lowlands, but you shouldn't throw/leave banana skins / orange peel etc in upland areas, moorland etc where they will take much longer to decompose and add unwelcome nutrients to delicate ecosystems that rely on low nutrient availability.

neeb

rstabler11 wrote:

According to the gf (a biologist) the general rule of thumb is if it grows in England, feel free to chuck it, but if we have to import it then put it in the trash. So apples, strawberries etc. are OK to chuck but not bananas and oranges.

Not sure what the basis of this is - there is no way that bananas or even oranges are going to start growing and escaping into the wild in the U.K, whereas non-native varieties or strawberries and apples might well do... That said, both banana skins and orange peels will be much slower to biodegrade than apples or strawberries.

Cleat Eastwood

lemuppet wrote:

It takes 2 years for a banana skin to decompose, take them home or find a bin.

2 years - feckin hell how big is your banana - takes a week or two- give back to nature.

imposter2.0

rstabler11 wrote:

Imposter wrote:

rstabler11 wrote:

and the skin will get your clothes gunky when you put it back in your pocket.

it's biodegradable - throw it over the hedge...

Apparently not (well they take 2 years to biodegrade, which isn't really acceptable). Here's a source.

According to the gf (a biologist) the general rule of thumb is if it grows in England, feel free to chuck it, but if we have to import it then put it in the trash. So apples, strawberries etc. are OK to chuck but not bananas and oranges.

EDIT:
Read the rest of the thread, I don't know why it is but the internet definitely says 2 years, maybe its less. I guess it just depends, the article was about Ben Nevis, which I can definitely see a skin surviving on longer than if it was in the gutter.

You're quoting an article in The Guardian as scientific evidence ?? - the author is the deputy arts editor FFS

3-5 weeks, just leave it there and we'll say no more about it.

danlikesbikes

rstabler11 wrote:

Imposter wrote:

rstabler11 wrote:

and the skin will get your clothes gunky when you put it back in your pocket.

it's biodegradable - throw it over the hedge...

Apparently not (well they take 2 years to biodegrade, which isn't really acceptable). Here's a source.

According to the gf (a biologist) the general rule of thumb is if it grows in England, feel free to chuck it, but if we have to import it then put it in the trash. So apples, strawberries etc. are OK to chuck but not bananas and oranges.

EDIT:
Read the rest of the thread, I don't know why it is but the internet definitely says 2 years, maybe its less. I guess it just depends, the article was about Ben Nevis, which I can definitely see a skin surviving on longer than if it was in the gutter.

The newspaper report was quoting this source http://www.jmt.org/news.asp?s=2&cat=Land&nid=JMT-N10412 basically due to the temperature being 5 - 0 celsius this will affect the decomposition rate. However no idea who/where they got their info from, assume its a genuine piece of work though but only taking into account decomposition rate not other factors.

rstabler11

neeb wrote:

rstabler11 wrote:

According to the gf (a biologist) the general rule of thumb is if it grows in England, feel free to chuck it, but if we have to import it then put it in the trash. So apples, strawberries etc. are OK to chuck but not bananas and oranges.

Not sure what the basis of this is - there is no way that bananas or even oranges are going to start growing and escaping into the wild in the U.K, whereas non-native varieties or strawberries and apples might well do... That said, both banana skins and orange peels will be much slower to biodegrade than apples or strawberries.

I don't think the concern was that a banana tree might grow! More that the micro-organisms which are effective at decomposing banana peels and orange skins are abundant in their native countries but not in the UK, which means they will take much longer to break down.

neeb

Danlikesbikes wrote:

The newspaper report was quoting this source http://www.jmt.org/news.asp?s=2&cat=Land&nid=JMT-N10412 basically due to the temperature being 5 - 0 celsius this will affect the decomposition rate. However no idea who/where they got their info from, assume its a genuine piece of work though but only taking into account decomposition rate not other factors.

It's not just the temperature, it's the acidity of the soil and how waterlogged it is (the two are often related), the type/depth of soil and the type of decomposers it can support, how exposed the landscape is, etc.

The Guardian article, although making a point that needs to be made, is a very poor piece of journalism because the bloke that wrote it obviously knows nothing (he was happy to throw skins away on mountain tops, and although he now realises that he shouldn't he doesn't know why).

Don't throw skins away on mountains / upland areas / heaths / moorlands / bogs etc.

It's mostly OK to do it in fertile lowland areas, cultivated farmland and deciduous woodland.

If you don't know the difference just don't do it.

neeb

rstabler11 wrote:

I don't think the concern was that a banana tree might grow! More that the micro-organisms which are effective at decomposing banana peels and orange skins are abundant in their native countries but not in the UK, which means they will take much longer to break down.

True enough, although I think the biggest factor is still the type of habitat you throw it away in. In a hedgerow in SE England a banana skin will still decompose quickly enough, but on an exposed mountain it can take years. As a previously keen hillwalker in Scotland it is seriously annoying to come across years-old orange peel at the summits of the more popular munros, almost always left by English visitors..

rstabler11

Yeah that probably does play a bigger role - although if Danlikesbikes' link says it decomposes slowly below 5 degrees than even in SE England I doubt much decomposition has occurred in the last 5 months!

danlikesbikes

neeb wrote:

Danlikesbikes wrote:

The newspaper report was quoting this source http://www.jmt.org/news.asp?s=2&cat=Land&nid=JMT-N10412 basically due to the temperature being 5 - 0 celsius this will affect the decomposition rate. However no idea who/where they got their info from, assume its a genuine piece of work though but only taking into account decomposition rate not other factors.

It's not just the temperature, it's the acidity of the soil and how waterlogged it is (the two are often related), the type/depth of soil and the type of decomposers it can support, how exposed the landscape is, etc.

The Guardian article, although making a point that needs to be made, is a very poor piece of journalism because the bloke that wrote it obviously knows nothing (he was happy to throw skins away on mountain tops, and although he now realises that he shouldn't he doesn't know why).

Don't throw skins away on mountains / upland areas / heaths / moorlands / bogs etc.

It's mostly OK to do it in fertile lowland areas, cultivated farmland and deciduous woodland.

If you don't know the difference just don't do it.

I wasn't quoting the Guardian article I was quoting their source which is the John Muir Trust but as per the link does not state where they got their info from.

As for waterlogged/exposed its the top of Britain's highest peak so am guessing that answers the question itself.

Not sure if you were directing your comments of "If you don't know the difference just don't do it." directly at me?

If so please be a little less patronising if you could as I was simply pointing out the newspaper article was citing a wildlife charity as its source & what that source was suggesting the reasons behind a much slower decomposition rate simply being the cold weather.

danlikesbikes

rstabler11 wrote:

Yeah that probably does play a bigger role - although if Danlikesbikes' link says it decomposes slowly below 5 degrees than even in SE England I doubt much decomposition has occurred in the last 5 months!

Did think that myself as we have only just,it seems, started to get above that in the day time thankfully

neeb

Danlikesbikes wrote:

I wasn't quoting the Guardian article I was quoting their source which is the John Muir Trust but as per the link does not state where they got their info from.

As for waterlogged/exposed its the top of Britain's highest peak so am guessing that answers the question itself.

Not sure if you were directing your comments of "If you don't know the difference just don't do it." directly at me?

If so please be a little less patronising if you could as I was simply pointing out the newspaper article was citing a wildlife charity as its source & what that source was suggesting the reasons behind a much slower decomposition rate simply being the cold weather.

My comments weren't directed at you or at anyone specifically, just at the dialogue on the thread, which was a bit confused.

I'm sorry if people think it's patronising just to have the most relevant facts instead of just acting on some vague idea based on hearsay and bunch of conflicting/incomplete sources.

The newspaper article was (as has been pointed out by someone already) was written by an arts editor based on a single source. The source, from the John Muir Trust, was a popular piece specifically about Ben Nevis and clearly aimed at getting an important point across in a simple manner.

Cleat Eastwood

See what you've caused-

smoggysteve

I would prefer to see discarded banana skins than streets full of empty plastic wrapping which take decades to degrade. Not saying its right but its the lesser of two evils.

Mikey23

Thanks for your input guys. Was interested in the litter aspect but apologies to the op as that wasn't what he was referring to. Personally, I have never used an energy gel in donkeys years of running and cycling and can't see any reason why I might want or need to ...

Lycra-Byka

I seem to think some people are missing the whole point about rate of decomposition.



It decomposes! End of!
2 years, 5years, 3 weeks ? Who cares its not gonna kill anyone or anything.
Yes If EVERYBODY left a banannaananana peel at the top of Ben Nevis then there'd be be some trees and pretty flowers pop up. Who cares. Environments change, naturally. What does it matter if man changes it.

neeb

Lycra-Byka wrote:

I seem to think some people are missing the whole point about rate of decomposition.



It decomposes! End of!
2 years, 5years, 3 weeks ? Who cares its not gonna kill anyone or anything.
Yes If EVERYBODY left a banannaananana peel at the top of Ben Nevis then there'd be be some trees and pretty flowers pop up. Who cares. Environments change, naturally. What does it matter if man changes it.

Don't get me going...

I could write paragraphs on what's wrong with that, but for starters: the particular ecological communities you find on the summits of mountains are quite small in terms of the total area they cover - they are unique and fragile habitats. There may be plants growing there that are only found on one or two mountain tops in the entire country. It so happens that these places also attract visitors, so the damage is potentially concentrated just where it can do the most harm.

If a banana peel takes 2 years to decompose and people are dropping them in exactly the same place at a rate considerably greater than one banana peel every two years, it doesn't take a genius to figure out that the rate of deposition is going to be greater than the rate of decomposition, so the rubbish will just continue to accumulate...

If you knew anything about alpine habitats in the U.K. you would know that they are above the treeline, so you are not going to get "trees popping up"... There are "pretty flowers" there already - very pretty, often very small and very rare ones that don't like banana peel. I for one would rather they remained there.

The one thing that helps to protect many of these places (Ben Nevis excepted because there is a pedestrian motorway for sassenachs going all of the way up it) is that the sorts of people who tend to throw litter around generally don't have the motivation and organisational skills to get up there in the first place.

Lycra-Byka wrote:

Environments change, naturally. What does it matter if man changes it.

It matters because man has the potential to change them in uniquely damaging and rapid ways. That's why we are in the middle of a anthropogenic mass extinction event.

Just take your litter home with you and don't be a tosser (pun intended).

sunburntknees

Don't drop banana skins on the pavement. Clowns may slip on them.

ValeTudoGuy

lemuppet wrote:

It takes 2 years for a banana skin to decompose, take them home or find a bin.

That's strange because the ones on my compost heap are gone in a couple of weeks. :roll:

neeb

ValeTudoGuy wrote:

lemuppet wrote:

It takes 2 years for a banana skin to decompose, take them home or find a bin.

That's strange because the ones on my compost heap are gone in a couple of weeks. :roll:

I heard that it takes several years for a bar of chocolate kept in the cupboard to decompose. That's strange, because when I buy one it disappears down my gullet in 2 minutes. Maybe I'm missing some subtle logic here,

danlikesbikes

ValeTudoGuy wrote:

lemuppet wrote:

It takes 2 years for a banana skin to decompose, take them home or find a bin.

That's strange because the ones on my compost heap are gone in a couple of weeks. :roll:

It is from a source that refers to being on top of Ben Nevis & due to the cold weather decomposition of banana skins is reduced from a couple of weeks to 2 years so its hardly that strange.

goonz

Strith wrote:

DavidJB wrote:

seanorawe wrote:

I just eat the bananna skin.

I don't even bother to peel it.

I eat the plastic wrappers

Isn't that what your meant to do? I always squeeze the gel onto the grass and swallow the wrapper. I thought thats what gave you the energy!

Cleat Eastwood

So the moral surely is don't ride up ben nevis - or if you do, make sure you've carbed up before hand,

danlikesbikes

Cleat Eastwood wrote:

So the moral surely is don't ride up ben nevis - or if you do, make sure you've carbed up before hand,

Or if you do don't throw your banana skin out and leave it up the top

superfourben

thegreatdivide wrote:

DavidJB wrote:

thegreatdivide wrote:

What could be easier (apart from throwing the wrapper away) than taking a bottle from your pocket, opeing the end with your mouth, squeezing a shot of gel in, then closing the bottle and sticking it back in your pocket. No fuss and no mess.

Taking a gel out of your pocket, opening it, eating it and putting it back in your pocket...its not rocket science.

No, it’s not rocket science, it’s sticky pockets.

Wash clothes = no sticky pockets

lawrences

Roast dinner = no need for food on a ride.

DavidJB

lawrences wrote:

Roast dinner = no need for food on a ride.

Slow on the hills though...weighed down by gravy....mmmm gravy

neeb

Cleat Eastwood wrote:

So the moral surely is don't ride up ben nevis - or if you do, make sure you've carbed up before hand,

Yup, it's actually pretty unlikely that cyclists in the U.K. are going to be in proper montane habitats, but it's something to bear in mind if you are going over high mountain passes abroad. More relevant for cyclists is bog and wet heath type habitats, of the sort that some people in Scotland or parts of Northern England (or Dartmoor?) might be cycling over sometimes. In proper peat bogs things basically don't decompose at all because of the extreme waterlogging as well as the acidic conditions, phenols etc. So your banana skin will probably sit there for years as an eyesore (also leaching nutrients which are effectively poisonous to the local flora) until it is eventually swallowed by the bog and discovered by archaeologists in 1000 years time...