Another tyre question - Ultra Sports

Sprool

My Scott S30 came with Conti Ultra Sport 23's, I got through the winter with them but recently a loss of cornering confidence, a couple of punctures and the appearance of lots of nicks and gashes in the tyres means I'm looking for an upgrade. I've seen a lot of posts about the Conti GP4000s tyres which are double the price - are they a better option for durability, low rolling resistance, light weight and grip compared to the Ultra's? Am I likely to notice much difference by doubling my tyre spend? (You can get the ultras for about £15, the GP4000's seem to be around £32).
Any other tyres I should be looking at? Some of the roads I cycle on round here are in a pretty shocking state - ruts, potholes and very rough road chipping surfaces.
There also seems to be a consensus of opinion that 25's are a better option for rolling resistance and comfort. Is it worth confining my search to 25's for upgrade?

cycleclinic

Also consider the GP 4 seasons as it more durable than the gatorskin and lighter. The GP 4000s does not have the side wall protection that the GP 4seasons does but the GP4000s does have better grip especially in the wet.

rjkflyer

GP4 Seasons are excellent - durable and free running. Light too given the protection and easy to fit/remove with the kevlar bead.

25's ARE lower rolling resistance than 23s, and definitely better comfort as aside being wider, you run them at lower pressure (make sure you look up the right pressure, NOT the number on the sidewall - Google Bicycling Quarterly Tire Pressure - yes sorry for the US spelling but it's a US article).

Sprool

thanks for the replies, a lot of people recommending the 4 seasons. I definitely want to get something more durable without losing traction.
Re: Bicycling quarterly article: http://www.bikequarterly.com/images/BQTireDrop.pdf
If this is the one you mean, the graph shown doesn't even cover adult UK male weight, if its an american article, then its a long way short. x-axis only goes up to 70kg, this is for bike and rider. I'm just over 12.5 st so with bike that converts to about 93kg, the chart shows I should have pressures at 160psi for 23mm tyres, in order to achieve the optimum 15% drop. The recommended pressure on the sidewall for Conti 23's and 25's is 110 to 120psi. For my weight the graph indicates they would be seriously under-inflated at this pressure. LBS where I bought the bike says run em at 100.
Anyone out there running tyres at 160psi?

davem399

The x axis is not overall rider plus bike weight but the load per wheel. So at 93 kg, your wheel loads might be 52kg and 41kg, for example.

maddog 2

+1 GP4Seasons - Contis best tyre IMO

Ultra Sports are just terrible, in my view.

Essex Man

Gp4000s are good, gators are v poor in the wet IMO. Schwalbe Duranos last and grip well from previous experience. I can't say I have noticed any difference in speed in any tyres I have ever ridden.

davem399

I like the Vredestein Fortezza Tricomp. Currently £24.99 at Parkers. A good all round tyre that gets favourable reviews in the magazines.

rich164h

maddog 2 wrote:

Ultra Sports are just terrible, in my view.

Indeed. Utterly horrid things that are severely lacking in grip and feel.

pkripper

Gp4000s all year round apart from racing here.

They survive some pretty crappy roads and commuting and don't really see the point of dropping down when the performanceand longevity is as it is.

passout

I find the Ultra sports puncture prone too. Also I don't like Gators in the wet as someone else mentioned.

I tend to stick to Michelin pro race (3s are fine and you can get them for just over 20 quid) in summer and Michelin krylions in winter (they are hard to find now though). People swear by the 4000s but I've never tried those. I also tend to go for 25mm but it doesn't make too much difference either way really.

Bar Shaker

I am using Vittoria Open Corsa Evos now (which I like) but you cannot go wrong with GP4000S. I had my last set on for 30 months of continual riding and they performed flawlessly in all conditions.

On a recent check, almost half the riders on my club rides were using them.

philbar72

rich164h wrote:

maddog 2 wrote:

Ultra Sports are just terrible, in my view.

Indeed. Utterly horrid things that are severely lacking in grip and feel.

seconded. they are reasonably puncture proof but are not a good tyre for feel or grip. distinctly budget.

dabber

philbar72 wrote:

seconded. they are reasonably puncture proof but are not a good tyre for feel or grip. distinctly budget.

Not in my experience. During the shortish period I used these tyres I had multiple puncture. It made me a bit paranoid about getting punctures and I moved onto Gatorskins.

Sprool

just ordered a pair of gp4000s off Rose Bikes. Hoping they will give me a bit of confidence back after my big downhill crash last month and 2 recent punctures.

lostboysaint

RJKflyer wrote:

GP4 Seasons are excellent - durable and free running. Light too given the protection and easy to fit/remove with the kevlar bead.

25's ARE lower rolling resistance than 23s, and definitely better comfort as aside being wider, you run them at lower pressure (make sure you look up the right pressure, NOT the number on the sidewall - Google Bicycling Quarterly Tire Pressure - yes sorry for the US spelling but it's a US article).

That.

Best thing I did was change to GP4s 25mm from Gatorskin 23mm. Very impressive tyre, no punctures yet....... more comfortable (run at 95psi instead of 110-120), roll as quickly.

goonz

Is there any evidence to suggest havig different tyres on front and back is beneficial?

pkripper

goonz wrote:

Is there any evidence to suggest havig different tyres on front and back is beneficial?

Yes. If you can only have one good tire and one poo tyre, it still makes sense to use it.

goonz

I meant a different brand or type?

Like a Gatorskin on the rear and a GP4 season on the front?

zx6man

rich164h wrote:

maddog 2 wrote:

Ultra Sports are just terrible, in my view.

Indeed. Utterly horrid things that are severely lacking in grip and feel.

Mine is shod with them over the kendas that came with bike , and I find them ok and no punctures in them over 2000 miles. I guess once they go then I will find the more expensives ones a decent upgrade

passout

Dabber wrote:

philbar72 wrote:

seconded. they are reasonably puncture proof but are not a good tyre for feel or grip. distinctly budget.

Not in my experience. During the shortish period I used these tyres I had multiple puncture. It made me a bit paranoid about getting punctures and I moved onto Gatorskins.

Agreed - they are puncture prone in my expereince. I had 4 punctures in 3 rides. Cahnged them to Krylions and have now had only 1 puncture in more than 12 months. Chalk & cheese.

Sprool

i would think this a bad idea, if theres a difference in grip then it will throw off your balance. I've gone for 25's now having spent the weekend trawling through posts and reviews, will run at 90-95 instead of 110 for the ultra sports 23's.

markos1963

+1 for Ultra Sports being a crap tyre. They seem to be used a lot as standard fitment on new bikes. If I saw a bike I was interested in buying fitted with them I'd shy away unless the shop was prepared to swap them out. My Boardman SS came with them and they were six weeks of hell. Punctures very ride(four on one ride alone!) no grip or feel and a poor ride quality. Now resigned for turbo use which hasn't warn them out so hard is the casing on them!

Pigeons in flight

Ultra Sport are cheap sh*te aimed to get u going on your new bike (and help the bike manufacturer a reasonable profit margin)...they are basically, only fit for the bucket.

Agree with the others - GP4000S are the best tyres I have used. They really are worth twice the £.

fsman

I'm thinking of replacing the Ultra sports that came with my Ribble Gran Fondo. Thinking of the GP4000S. Currently I have 700x23. I assume the best option is for the GP4000S 700x23 rather than the 25s?
This is my "weekend" bike, not my daily commuter.

Advice on the type size for the GP4000S?

thanks in advance.

bigmat

GP4000S, Schwalbe Ultremo ZX, Michelin Pro Race 4, Vittoria Rubino Pro all good race / training tyres. Of those, Contis / Vits maybe a bit more durable. Ultra Sport are pretty poor but OK for commuting. I ran them for a year or two and no real problems with punctures - I have ridden all sorts of tyres and I really think that unless you get some heavyweight puncture resistant things, a lot is down to luck hence why you will get some people swearing by a type of tyre and others blaming them for punctures.

Re 23 /25, I always ride 23 - just habit I guess. I probably get a puncture maybe every 1,000 miles. Most of my miles are commuting miles on wired Rubinos so pretty cheap and cheerful tyres but do the job. Not convinced that 25s are the panacea people claim but open to the theory.

Sprool

fsman wrote:

I'm thinking of replacing the Ultra sports that came with my Ribble Gran Fondo. Thinking of the GP4000S. Currently I have 700x23. I assume the best option is for the GP4000S 700x23 rather than the 25s?
This is my "weekend" bike, not my daily commuter.
Advice on the type size for the GP4000S?
thanks in advance.

OK so Ultra Sports are cheap and they're pants, but they got me cycling and I've done 1500 miles on them. Now time to get something better, now I know the difference in cost/performance. I'm switching up from 23's to try out GP4000s 25's due to the positive stuff I've read on a lot of posts on this and other cycling forums - notably comfort, slightly lower pressure, small decrease in roll resistance, good grip. I'll let you know how much difference I feel once the new tyres arrive.
Why not try out the 25's fsman, see how you get on?

Sprool

The Conti gp4000s tyres arrived today (25's from Rose bikes De) so I went out for a quick spin. Unfortunately the wind has been really strong and gusting to >60mph here so the ride was a bit fraught - I can't comment on roll resistance but they are definitely a lot more comfortable at soaking up the small vibrations and undulations. Running them at 90 front/95 rear. I had the ultras at 100 front/110 rear. The compound also feels tackier. I'll have to wait for the weekend and hopefully some stiller weather to get out on a good long ride with em.

duckson

Just changed my GP4000S (which will be going on the wifes bike) to Conti Force/Attack which have the same protection, blackchilli compound etc as GP4000S but i think they have less rubber on them as they are both lighter.

Front is a 22 (Attack) and the rear is a 24 (Force), the 24 is lighter than the GP4000S in 23.

Funnily enough got my first ever puncture on the GP4000S the other day in probably 750-1000miles, it was a slow one (fine riding home, up next morning to find it flat). Small thorn in it....i would buy them again though, great tyre as are most of Conti's mroe expensive offerings.

Sprool

great ride out in the sun this morning - 30 miles round west yorks rough tarmac and potholes. thumbs up for the new gp's - comfy and sure-footed, none of the lateral creep i got with the skinny ultras cornering at speed, feels a lot more surefooted. none of the micro-vibrations over rough tarmac either. Hopefully they will last me a good while as they are twice the price of the ultras.

cooper.michael1

zx6man wrote:

rich164h wrote:

maddog 2 wrote:

Ultra Sports are just terrible, in my view.

Indeed. Utterly horrid things that are severely lacking in grip and feel.

Mine is shod with them over the kendas that came with bike , and I find them ok and no punctures in them over 2000 miles. I guess once they go then I will find the more expensives ones a decent upgrade

After an incident which ripped my usual tyres sidewall mid-week, I picked up a Continental Ultrasport from my LBS this week just to see me through a few days (as it was only £12) until they could get my usual Schwalbe replacement tyre in. I've been out on it for a couple of rides including about 30miles yesterday, and it held up really well. Rolls well, predictable grip, quite robust, all in all seems OK...i'd say a little more grip than Gatorskins, as the tyre is more supple.

In terms of punctures. I'd say at least 50% of punctures are due to rider error, mainly because people don't inflate them to a high enough pressure leading to impact type punctures. This is magnified mid-ride because many people's mini-pumps are only capable of about 60-80psi, causing multiple punctures. If you puncture 3-4 times in one ride, it could be due to many factors, not just the tyre (nicking the tube as you replace it, insufficient pressure, rim tape issues, not removing a foreign object which caused the first puncture)...all too easy to blame the tyre.