Colnago Master Piu Question

Velonutter

Hi All, I've posted the same on Retrobike but just trying to widen the net.

I wonder if I could ask some advice?

I am just in the middle of paying for the Colnago below from Italy.

I've been after a Saroni Red Master for a long while at the right price and this at €700 seems a fair price.















Can anyone advise of the age of this model, I believe it might be early 90's but the seller seems to think it is more than 30 years old, although it has been re-sprayed, I'm not sure if the forks are original, it looks like a threaded C-Record Headset but with a converter. I didn't think the Gilco tubing went back more than the 90's

I can't find out much about the Master Piu, how do they differ from the Master X-Lite, are they a little heavier, different tubing?

There is no sticker for the tubing type, so I wondered what type it would be, will the seatpost be 27.2?

Any advice or information on the frame would be most welcome.

Many Thanks.

daviesee

All i can say is what is different to my 2008 Master so you can focus on these for age.

The forks seem more slender than mine (could just be the photo).
The top tube has a spades logo which mine doesn't.
The headset look like a conversion. Personally, I would convert back if possible, a Cinelli 1A stem would be nice. :P
The cable stops look like a down tube shifter conversion.

Most importantly, the cable routing through the top tube. I haven't seen that before. Should be an indicator.

Velonutter

Thanks Dave,

I've found out a bit more since posting.

The Master Piu stood for Master Plus and it differed from the standard Master with an internal rear brake cable.

The Piu was a European model only.

The S4 Tubing is very much along the lines of the SLX but shaped.

From what I can determine the Master were first produced around 1984 and the Piu around 1989

The forks have an Ahead converter in them, which actually looks quite neat, I have thought about using a Cinelli 1A stem, but I may give this frame a new twist and keep it modern as it will probably do a good couple of thousand miles a year. The problem as well will be getting some nice compact bars that still look good with the frame.

One thing is for sure that it will be Campagnolo 11 Speed as I already have a complete Athena Groupset off my C40 in the Garage, I may even go with a triple from Campag new Triple UT cranks (Edit: looks like this won't be an option as the only do Power Torque triples)

I certainly need to do a lot of thinking with this frame.

Thanks for your input.

FransJacques

That bike is a bit on an anachronism. It has a PR82 paint scheme, ok, but then it has an ahead stem on it. Does it have a quill to ahead adaptor?

It just looks too new to me to be 30 years old. Master Piu tended to have Master Piu on the top tube. Last comment is the top of the seatstays bulge in a very modern way. Most seat stays used to be crimped, and I can recall that instead of the quatrofolio the word 'Colnago' was engraved in the top the stay. Do you have a pic of the rear dropouts? That helps indicate the era.

It's beautiful but is it really 30 years old?

To me, one big give away is the Columbus sticker - get the guy to take a shot of the Columbus sticker. They've changed a lot over the years and it's easier to spot an old one of those...

Velonutter

Thanks FransJacques,

As I mentioned above the frame has been resprayed and there is no Columbus sticker on the frame, I also mentioned that the frame has an Ahead converter (quilll to ahead adapter).

Because it has been resprayed it doesn't have the Master Piu on the top tube.

I have no doubt that it is a Master, but like you am unsure of the date, in my limited opinion it is probably an early 90's frame.

It has been difficult trying to get information from the seller as I don't speak Italian and he doesn't speak any English and the whole purchase has been through using Google Translater! :roll:

Whatever older Master I had bought, I would probably have had it resprayed and will most probably have the forks re-chromed on this as well. Once I have the serial number, then I will contact Colnago and see if they can tell me the age. I do hope it has the clover cut out Bottom Bracket 8)

Monty Dog

The Prescia straight-bladed fork was introduced in the 1990s which would agree with the early 90s date.

Velonutter

Thanks Monty

mrdsgs

Could be a master olympic, all the chrome including the forks are right. There were two versions, both had internal rear brake routing. One type used Tange tubing, the other, Columbus. They looked the same other than under down tube Colnago lettering on the Columbus, other than the sticker.

I have a Tange master olympic and live in Stafford if you want to check any frame details.

Velonutter

Thanks Mrdsgs, once it has arrived I'll get some more pictures up and see what you think, thanks.

FransJacques

BTW is it EUR700 for the whole kit and caboodle or just the F&F? If it's the whole bike as pictured just payup and take delivery.

Gotta look at the bigger picture for that price.

Other thing to look at is the dropouts - if the stays remain round and are plugged into quite chunky dropouts with the rear derailleur cable stop on it it's a 90s frame.

This one looks to have the rear derailleur cable stop on the chainstay leading me to believe it has the older Everest, Columbus or Campagnolo forged horizontal dropouts. Looks like a good buy.

Velonutter

Thanks FransJacques,

The frame arrived at 08:00 this morning and have spent the last 45 minutes un-wrapping it.

I paid €700 for the frame, forks, headset, plus another €330 for the Seatpost and Neutron Ultra Wheels, which are like brand new.

I bought the seatpost just in case it was an odd size, but it isn't, so I think a nice Campag Record one will go in there.

I'll post photos as soon as I can.

Where can I find the Frame Number?

BB has the words Colnago underneath, Seatpost is 27.2mm (just measured with my Calipers)

The seller also sent me the Elite Ally Bottle Cage, a real thing of Beauty, where am I going to get a second one of them?

This bike will be ridden, probably a couple of thousand miles a year, so I would rather fit modern kit and enjoy riding it rather than struggle with some silly gearing and I like modern kit anyway, so I have an Athena 11s groupset in the garage that will suit this very nicely.

Appreciate all your help, thanks.

daviesee

Velonutter wrote:

Where can I find the Frame Number?

The seller also sent me the Elite Ally Bottle Cage, a real thing of Beauty, where am I going to get a second one of them?

The Serial No. on mine is on the rear dropout.

I got these - http://www.wiggle.co.uk/elite-ciussi-inox-bottle-cage/
There is a cheaper alloy version but they tend to loosen off with repeated use and/or road vibration. The stainless version has more spring and maintains it's shape.

PS:- There will be an older Record alloy post going on Ebay next month. Nice but heavier than I expected.
I am happier with my 2008 Chorus. For a bling replacement I would consider Nitto. Not Italian but very nice.

Evil Laugh

I've got a couple of those cages knocking around, I'll dig them out and see what nick they're in.

Velonutter

Thanks Daviesee & Evil,

I found the serial number on the drop outs, it was obscured by the quick release.

I have just quick grabbed a couple of pictures before it pished down and of the bottle cage as well: -





I was kicking myself for selling my Shamals as they would have gone really nice on this, however the Neutrons Ultras suite this even better.

I wonder how quick I can get this built, got an Audax on Saturday, but can't see me getting the bars and stem before then...or maybe as I have some Cinelli Neos with the correct Stem in the Garage :-)

Velonutter

The Bike is now built and can be viewed here

daviesee

Nice, and i am sure it will make for a very nice ride.

I prefer the all alloy look (my avatar is out of date) but that is personal choice and black gear makes the frame stand out all the more. :P
A bike has to fit it's rider but the spacers do seem a bit much. :shock: :? :?:

Velonutter

daviesee wrote:

Nice, and i am sure it will make for a very nice ride.

I prefer the all alloy look (my avatar is out of date) but that is personal choice and black gear makes the frame stand out all the more. :P
A bike has to fit it's rider but the spacers do seem a bit much. :shock: :? :?:

I might try some 1" Carbon Spacers and see if that breaks it up a little as the Headset does stand quite a bit out of the frame and probably looks a bit too much?