Another TT Death

napoleond

http://www.thisishullandeastriding.co.u ... z2OxyMwAx8

I'd never do a TT on a Dual Carriageway. Very sad to hear.

LegendLust

I was riding at the event, and as I was changing after my effort, the news came in at HQ. A great atmosphere suddenly turned.

From what I understand, it was a freak accident and a case of being in the wrong place at the wrong time. After a few deaths last year, I've started riding more and more SpoCo TTs - I'm wondering whether to ever venture on that course again.

danlikesbikes

Very sad news indeed.

IT does scare me the idea of doing a TT on a dual carriageway, just the higher average speed of cars. Guess you have to use your judgement though and knowledge of the course to consider if you feel more or less at threat than on a single carriageway road.

John.T

Danlikesbikes wrote:

Very sad news indeed.
IT does scare me the idea of doing a TT on a dual carriageway, just the higher average speed of cars. Guess you have to use your judgement though and knowledge of the course to consider if you feel more or less at threat than on a single carriageway road.

It is indeed very sad news but I have ridden this course several times and have never found the traffic intimidating at the times we are on it. I have had more scares on SC courses as there is less room, sight lines are shorter etc.

danlikesbikes

John.T wrote:

Danlikesbikes wrote:

Very sad news indeed.
IT does scare me the idea of doing a TT on a dual carriageway, just the higher average speed of cars. Guess you have to use your judgement though and knowledge of the course to consider if you feel more or less at threat than on a single carriageway road.

It is indeed very sad news but I have ridden this course several times and have never found the traffic intimidating at the times we are on it. I have had more scares on SC courses as there is less room, sight lines are shorter etc.

Not that I am ever in the area but its good to know that you have ridden it & felt safe. I have raced on 2 courses locally to me & one I will never do again as it just did not feel safe at all, whereas the other did and am quite happy on the course. Guess it all comes down to your own judgement & what/where you feel happy & safe riding.

Not that I am trying to hijack this thread as it is truly a saddening moment when a fellow cyclist passes away taking part in a sport they love.

Tom Butcher

I've ridden DC courses a few times and yes they can feel safe but the death toll proves that compared to other types of course they aren't. There's a link to a video of the road on some of the news websites reporting on the tragedy - it's pretty much a motorway.

I wouldn't ride a DC course again - decision made before this fatality - and after this I don't think I'd even want to help out marshalling one again. There is every chance we'll be talking about another fatality in similar circumstances later on in the season.

Pokerface

First and foremost, condolences to the family of CHRIS AUKER who was killed in this accident. RIP


Secondly, in terms of racing on dual carriageways – I do it myself and it scares the crap outta me. Usually once a year in search of that über-fast time. I don't feel it is safe particularly and personally would not a raise a fuss if these events were banned.

It comes down to the drivers more than anything - even with 2 lanes available to them (and light traffic conditions), many of them still insist on staying int he left lane and weaving around each cyclist instead of keeping to the right. We're talking about a maximum of 5 miles of road in each direction in most cases!

Would be nice to have permission to cone off the one lane for the duration of the event and hold them less often. But it will probably never happen.

This particular incident was a freak occurrence from what I understand though and less to do with it being a dual carriageway. Cyclist ran into the back of a broken-down vehicle I think.

No matter what happened, sad to see another deceased cyclist.

If you're racing today, keep your head up and watch where you're going. Play (and stay) safe out there.

LegendLust

Pokerface wrote:

First and foremost, condolences to the family of CHRIS AUKER who was killed in this accident. RIP


Secondly, in terms of racing on dual carriageways – I do it myself and it scares the crap outta me. Usually once a year in search of that über-fast time. I don't feel it is safe particularly and personally would not a raise a fuss if these events were banned.

It comes down to the drivers more than anything - even with 2 lanes available to them (and light traffic conditions), many of them still insist on staying int he left lane and weaving around each cyclist instead of keeping to the right. We're talking about a maximum of 5 miles of road in each direction in most cases!

Would be nice to have permission to cone off the one lane for the duration of the event and hold them less often. But it will probably never happen.

This particular incident was a freak occurrence from what I understand though and less to do with it being a dual carriageway. Cyclist ran into the back of a broken-down vehicle I think.

No matter what happened, sad to see another deceased cyclist.

If you're racing today, keep your head up and watch where you're going. Play (and stay) safe out there.

From what I gathered at the HQ, a caravan had a blow out which caused the car driver to lose control. Don't know if it then knocked Chris, or Chris ran into it. Either way, it was a freak occurance and just very bad timing. The scary thing for me is that I was 12-15 mins further up the course than Chris. It could have happened to me.

Neil Buckley

Pokerface wrote:

First and foremost, condolences to the family of CHRIS AUKER who was killed in this accident. RIP


Secondly, in terms of racing on dual carriageways – I do it myself and it scares the crap outta me. Usually once a year in search of that über-fast time. I don't feel it is safe particularly and personally would not a raise a fuss if these events were banned.

It comes down to the drivers more than anything - even with 2 lanes available to them (and light traffic conditions), many of them still insist on staying int he left lane and weaving around each cyclist instead of keeping to the right. We're talking about a maximum of 5 miles of road in each direction in most cases!

Would be nice to have permission to cone off the one lane for the duration of the event and hold them less often. But it will probably never happen.

This particular incident was a freak occurrence from what I understand though and less to do with it being a dual carriageway. Cyclist ran into the back of a broken-down vehicle I think.

No matter what happened, sad to see another deceased cyclist.

If you're racing today, keep your head up and watch where you're going. Play (and stay) safe out there.[/quote]


A bloody good bit of advice people. The pros have closed roads, we don't. RIP Chris, sleep well fella.

mallorcajeff

Very sad. There has been another three deaths here in mallorca in as many weeks. Last one two days ago was only 13 poor bugger. Again hit by a car.
That video clip on the news report, looking at the speed the cars are going on the opposite carriageway there is no way i would cycle on a road like that.
Stay safe out there people.
Very sad, wrong place at the wrong time it seems.

oldwelshman

Pokerface wrote:

First and foremost, condolences to the family of CHRIS AUKER who was killed in this accident. RIP


Secondly, in terms of racing on dual carriageways – I do it myself and it scares the crap outta me. Usually once a year in search of that über-fast time. I don't feel it is safe particularly and personally would not a raise a fuss if these events were banned.

It comes down to the drivers more than anything - even with 2 lanes available to them (and light traffic conditions), many of them still insist on staying int he left lane and weaving around each cyclist instead of keeping to the right. We're talking about a maximum of 5 miles of road in each direction in most cases!

Would be nice to have permission to cone off the one lane for the duration of the event and hold them less often. But it will probably never happen.

This particular incident was a freak occurrence from what I understand though and less to do with it being a dual carriageway. Cyclist ran into the back of a broken-down vehicle I think.

No matter what happened, sad to see another deceased cyclist.

If you're racing today, keep your head up and watch where you're going. Play (and stay) safe out there.

Why is there such a need to search for "uber" fast times. The times are meaningless it is how people compare to others in the event that counts. The way it is going they will be on closed circuits. Too dangerous on DC and the bikes used these days don't help. I have seen guys out on TT bikes, Disc or deep section wheels, bars etc, on club rides practising ! and cannot handle the bike, it does not take much to divert course, cross wind, lorry close etc. Very sad another loss of life.

okgo

It doesn't look much like a motorway to me.

I've done a few tt's on our club course which is a dual carriageway and its fine. An accident can happen on any road if a driver or rider does something they shouldn't.

RIP

gavbarron

oldwelshman wrote:

Why is there such a need to search for "uber" fast times. The times are meaningless it is how people compare to others in the event that counts.

This ^
I can't understand a faster time being more important than my safety, and worse still I'd hate my own irresponsible choices to be the reason my wife and son got that knock at the door.

oldwelshman wrote:

I have seen guys out on TT bikes, Disc or deep section wheels, bars etc, on club rides practising ! and cannot handle the bike

I am surprised the club even allow them out, most won't let you ride a TT bike on a club run

With regards to todays horrible occurrence, it is tragic and unfortunate, I just hope his family seek comfort in the knowledge it was quick and doing something he no doubt loved

themekon

Does anyone really think that a so called uber fast time with assistance of fast moving traffic to tow them along is a reflection of their true ability?.
I've witnessed plenty of time trialists move out to catch the drag from a lorry, coach, or car towing caravan.
Single lane courses have their own risks it's true but I know what I would sooner risk.
Traffic counts seem to matter little these days.

gavbarron

themekon wrote:

Does anyone really think that a so called uber fast time with assistance of fast moving traffic to tow them along is a reflection of their true ability?.
I've witnessed plenty of time trialists move out to catch the drag from a lorry, coach, or car towing caravan.

I've seen it a lot too. To me it's no different to drafting and as such is cheating but then they can't see that and so will carry on to do it. You're only racing yourself really so why hitch a ride, it's called the race of truth for a reason

Tom Butcher

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1IQEhiYigAk

That's the video of the road I saw - when you look at it like that I defy anyone to say they don't at least think that it might not be safe.

I've ridden the A1 and the A52 in TTs so I can't throw stones - the A52 certainly felt safe when I was on it (the A1 not so but it was in very high winds) - but I've also driven past time trials on the A52 lots of times and thought it looked dangerous.

JackPozzi

Looks fairly quiet on the other side of the road, I would have no qualms about racing on that, obviously with the queues due to the traffic being diverted off the road it's impossible to comment on the side of the road where the incident happened. FWIW I've often ridden events on the E2(A11/A14) near Cambridge and during the race traffic has felt fairly light but the after I've finished I'll go back out on to the course to cheer on clubmates and standing at the side of the road traffic levels do seem much worse.

ianbar

there was another death in hull that same weekend! there is another dual carriageway they do tt on in the area and i wouldnt take part unless the road was properly coned off. its a shame as i had been thinking of giving tt's a go but has really put me off.

ozzzyosborn206

RIP very sad to hear, personally I will never race a duel carriageway TT and I hate the way some of the older guys in my club encourage others to do them, some of them juniors and or new to cycling, when i drive on them the last thing i expect to see is a cyclist all it takes is a pot hole or a gust of wind causing the cyclist to swerve and thats it. I agree with the view that getting a fast time is pointless and means nothing, there are people over here who have been to fast courses and done 50minute 25mile TTs but then over here I can take a minute out of them on our course but only do a 54.

John.T

when i drive on them the last thing i expect to see is a cyclist

Then it is time you learnt to be observant and take note of all roads that cyclists are entitled to use. Far too many drivers are like you. If you give cyclists the recommended 1.5 metres room there is no problem. And if you can't then it is not safe to pass.

bigmat

John.T wrote:

when i drive on them the last thing i expect to see is a cyclist

Then it is time you learnt to be observant and take note of all roads that cyclists are entitled to use. Far too many drivers are like you. If you give cyclists the recommended 1.5 metres room there is no problem. And if you can't then it is not safe to pass.

Agree with this - got beeped by a car on a dual carriageway this morning as I had the audacity to deviate from my line by less than a foot to avoid a pothole as he was overtaking me. It was a dual carriageway FFS, why was he even in my lane when there was an overtaking lane he could use? These roads may be dangerous, but they are dangerous because of idiot drivers and we shouldn't lose sight of that. This is a general observation and not specifically related to the OP by the way.

ozzzyosborn206

What I mean by my previous post was I do not understand why you would choose to ride on such a busy road, chances are there will be much quieter roads that go in the same direction, saying they are dangerous because of idiot drivers is a fair and valid point, but they will always be there, and if they hit you, you will not. In my opinion if you choose to cycle on these roads your an idiot too, just an different kind of idiot

John.T

What is needed is more cyclists on these roads not less. Then we will be more conspicuous and it will be more obvious that cyclists can and do use these roads.

slam that stem

John.T wrote:

What is needed is more cyclists on these roads not less. Then we will be more conspicuous and it will be more obvious that cyclists can and do use these roads.

Agreed. In the 90s there was a "Queers are Here, Get used to it" campaign at several US universities which defiantly says: we're conspicuous and you need to give us room/respect to allow us to carry on with our lives. Cyclists are similarly bullied by the motoring majority.

I believe in the "I pay road tax" jersey b/c it misses the point, the jerseys with an arrow pointing right saying "Give Way" or "Leave a meter" are the message I want drivers to get. They need to learn to give room regardless of whether we're on a bike, a motorbike, or an electric wheelchair.

But I digress, that might not have been the case here.

Condolences to the fellow's family. I've often thought of this when riding, but being killed doing what you love is, for me, a better way of going than sitting on the sofa with a beer picking your belly-button fluff and watching bowling.

Yorkman

As a consequence of this death Humberside Police today cancelled all amateur road races not held on closed roads, which is none of them.

Season over before it starts.

markos1963

Yorkman wrote:

As a consequence of this death Humberside Police today cancelled all amateur road races not held on closed roads, which is none of them.

Season over before it starts.

Thin edge of the wedge I reckon as well. Where one Force starts the others will follow. From what I have read into it they seem to think all races have enough money to pay for a closure which we all know is not the case.

celbianchi

Yorkman wrote:

As a consequence of this death Humberside Police today cancelled all amateur road races not held on closed roads, which is none of them.

Season over before it starts.

Except they have not, because they do not have the authority to cancel TT's where riders start at 1 min intervals. They actually have said they will not support them, which is entirely different.

For road racing this has a bigger impact.

markos1963

celbianchi wrote:

Yorkman wrote:

As a consequence of this death Humberside Police today cancelled all amateur road races not held on closed roads, which is none of them.

Season over before it starts.

Except they have not, because they do not have the authority to cancel TT's where riders start at 1 min intervals. They actually have said they will not support them, which is entirely different.

For road racing this has a bigger impact.

Surely that is just semantics? if they withdraw support then I would imagine that they won't be covered under CTT regulations and insurance? No organiser could run under those conditions.

celbianchi

Markos1963 - you imagine wrongly for TT.
Police have no jurasdiction - an organiser notifying 6 weeks in advance is all that is required. you then receive a standard letter back from the Police advising that they note the event and a warning that should an accident occur it will be investigated.

markos1963

celbianchi wrote:

Markos1963 - you imagine wrongly for TT.
Police have no jurasdiction - an organiser notifying 6 weeks in advance is all that is required. you then receive a standard letter back from the Police advising that they note the event and a warning that should an accident occur it will be investigated.

Thanks for clearing that up then. Still not good for the RR situation though and it doesn't seem fair they will suffer because of a tragic accident during a TT

celbianchi

Agreed, worring time for RR in the area.