Fast Race Frame??

saprkzz

After a very dissapointing training on a circuit this week, I have decided to sell my Cervelo R5 frame for something different,and swap the components over.

Basically what I am thinking is to change it for a more agressive faster race frame. So I am after good suggestions.

I have a Moda Stretto, which is a lot faster on the circuits, so ideal thought would be to swap all my groupset on to this, but I currently use this bike for wet miles (and winter), wouldnt mind keeping it like that to be honest, so whats out there? does anyone have expereince on fast stiff zippy bikes that feels quick, sprints well etc etc,

Grill

Err... methinks the problem is with the rider, not the bike. The marginal gains (if any) from an upgraded frame (and you're going to have to pay out to upgrade over an R5) are far outweighed by a better wheelset.

saprkzz

No I disagree, The R5 has totally different set up to a race frame, it has a sit up and beg style that is better suited to long distance, comfort and climbing. I found it hard to keep constant pace with the peleton, my average lap speed was noticbly down, ok i may have had an off day, but i was feeling strong, not ill... my training at the same circuit was completly different for a few weeks before with dry conditions, and the temperature has been pretty much the same. This week was the first time that i took the R5 to circuit. My legs were aching after 30 minutes, I felt like I was chasing the whole time.
On the Stretto, it had a totally different feel, much faster, and easier to maintain to get off the front and stay out.

Grill

Most of the Garmin-Sharp team ride the R5 and don't seem to have too much trouble keeping up with the peleton... :roll:

Seriously, you need look at the way you're training if this is your issue. If you went out at race-pace without a proper warm-up no wonder you cracked. Spend your money on coaching, you'll get way more out of it. If you really feel the need to buy a new frame then by all means, but you should probably learn to let your legs do the talking.

rozzer32

I agree the frame isn't the issue. You put Wiggins or Cav on your R5 and they'd still smash it. Put them on an Alu bike with Sora, they'd still smash it. Dan Martin rides an R5 and he was right up there with Wiggins, J Rod, Nibali etc last week.

I agree to spend your money on coaching or a bike fit. These have been the best two things I've spent money on for my cycling.

jgsi

before now it was spending time in the gym instead of proper , focussed , structured training on the bike and now lo behold it is your frame..
Nothing wrong at all with the R5.

rolf_f

I think you need to stop taking Bikeradar reviews so seriously!

rozzer32

saprkzz wrote:

I joined the gym in October to deal with the cold wet winter that was to come, and it was the best thing i did.

I had a personal trainer who as put me through my paces on my core and legs and on casual days i use the rower / cross trainer and running for overall fitness. At the moment I visit the gym 3 times a week, along with getting out on the bike / spinning classes or staying home on the turbo.

To be honest, I have never felt fitter and stronger, and have muslces I never thought i could grow and now cant wait for my race season to start.

My gym are cool, they have said I can put te membership on hold for 6 months through the summer if I want, but I am enjoying going, plus I love the girls on the cross trainers when I am on the running machines behind!! ... passes an hour perfectly! :roll: :roll:

So you've not put the miles in over the winter and now the R5 is the problem. There is only one way to get fit and fast on your bike and that is to ride your bike.

jgsi

.. this is for your own good,you know hope you realise this..

MattC59

Get a fast race engine instead.

letap73

I think Op's issue is that the R5 geometry does not suit him and he is unable to get the best out of the frame. I am no expert on matters to do with racing but perhaps he is looking for a bike with a more horizontal top tube/ shorter head tube?

imposter2.0

JGSI wrote:

before now it was spending time in the gym instead of proper , focussed , structured training on the bike and now lo behold it is your frame..
Nothing wrong at all with the R5.

I'm pretty sure we mentioned this in another thread...

To the OP - despite what you might read in magazine reviews, there are no 'fast' frames - only fast riders. And most of them don't spend a lot of time in the gym. Incidentally, I know of a number of riders that race on Moda Stretto frames at a fairly high level - maybe use that as your race bike instead, although it won't actually make any difference to your speed...

pkripper

I'll happily take the r5 off your hands, it'll be plenty fast enough for me.

saprkzz

Letap73, thank you, yes exactly what I was thinking, I am not worried about the "engine" quite happy how fast I am generally, just not on the circuit on the R5 lol

There are different style of bikes, race frames, sportive frames, etc etc, the R5 is totally different set up to the S5, like the Tarmac is to the roubaix, when I compared my riding on two different bikes my performance on the R5 was different. I didn't like the feel of it on the circuit, I couldn't achieve what I had ALREADY achieved, so I want to swap it for a different frame.

So I wanted to know if people had good experiences on bikes like Tarmac sworks ,Orbea orca gold, bikes like this that are known to be race frames, pkripper your welcome to make an offer

letap73

Have you tried either a Caad 10 or Supersix Evo? The Caad 10 is frequently mentioned on this forum as an "aggressive" race bike and having ridden the Supersix Evo I can say it is very racy and handles very well. I have a Trigon RC11 which does not seem vastly different from the Evo (less comfortable) - I am not sure how well it will handle in a race situation, but it isn't an expensive frame:

http://www.cycledivision.co.uk/product- ... pid21.html

Hope this helps.

neeb

If you really are detectably faster on the moda compared to the R5, it must be down to either setup and/or having the wrong sized frame. Are you sure you have the two bikes et up exactly the same in terms of conact points (saddle height, saddle setback, reach, drop to bars)? Beware that these things can actually be quite difficult to measure accurately unless you have an obsessive personality like me and a good head for practical arithmetic and geometry.

If the setup isn't the same, is this because of any physical limitations of the frame, e.g. headtube that is too long?

The fact that you are expressing your reservations about the R5 in such general terms makes me suspect that you haven't looked into your setup and fit in nearly enough detail.

Camcycle1974

saprkzz wrote:

Letap73, thank you, yes exactly what I was thinking, I am not worried about the "engine" quite happy how fast I am generally, just not on the circuit on the R5 lol

There are different style of bikes, race frames, sportive frames, etc etc, the R5 is totally different set up to the S5, like the Tarmac is to the roubaix, when I compared my riding on two different bikes my performance on the R5 was different. I didn't like the feel of it on the circuit, I couldn't achieve what I had ALREADY achieved, so I want to swap it for a different frame.

So I wanted to know if people had good experiences on bikes like Tarmac sworks ,Orbea orca gold, bikes like this that are known to be race frames, pkripper your welcome to make an offer

Get a Giant TCR. Problem solved!

saprkzz

neeb wrote:

If you really are detectably faster on the moda compared to the R5, it must be down to either setup and/or having the wrong sized frame. Are you sure you have the two bikes et up exactly the same in terms of conact points (saddle height, saddle setback, reach, drop to bars)? Beware that these things can actually be quite difficult to measure accurately unless you have an obsessive personality like me and a good head for practical arithmetic and geometry.

If the setup isn't the same, is this because of any physical limitations of the frame, e.g. headtube that is too long?

The fact that you are expressing your reservations about the R5 in such general terms makes me suspect that you haven't looked into your setup and fit in nearly enough detail.

Yeah maybe this is something o look into, the Moda was set up by a retul fit, and the cervelo was set up by a professional bike fit but by manual means.

dennisn

Rolf F wrote:

I think you need to stop taking Bikeradar reviews so seriously!

+1..... Really, it's not the bike, it's you. But feel free to spend all you like on whatever you have read is "must have" stuff. The manufacturers are going to love you.

imposter2.0

saprkzz wrote:

After a very dissapointing training on a circuit this week,

as a matter of interest - what was 'disappointing' about your training?? None of the issues you described earlier are bike-related.

jibberjim

saprkzz wrote:

There are different style of bikes, race frames, sportive frames, etc etc, the R5 is totally different set up to the S5, like the Tarmac is to the roubaix.

Yes, but you need to be pretty extreme in sizing not to be able to set up an R5 into an equivalent position as you would an S5. As noted by many others, the pro riders who ride R5's manage it very well.

I have an RS and an R3 and can set them up the same, despite having much higher saddle to bar drop than your average rider - it would require an extremely negative angled stem, but you can get 140mm -60% if you really need it.

The frame of an R5 is certainly perfectly suitable to racing, just get the position appropriate.

smoggysteve

Its not about the bike, it all about the engine!!!!!!!

jibberjim

SmoggySteve wrote:

Its not about the bike, it all about the engine!!!!!!!

In the positions I've set up my R3 and RS, I lose about a minute in a 10mile TT at the same watts.

The position on a bike can make a lot of difference, the frame would be minimal, but aerodynamics, and center of gravity to help with cornering and confidence cornering can make significant differences.

smoggysteve

jibberjim wrote:

SmoggySteve wrote:

Its not about the bike, it all about the engine!!!!!!!

In the positions I've set up my R3 and RS, I lose about a minute in a 10mile TT at the same watts.

The position on a bike can make a lot of difference, the frame would be minimal, but aerodynamics, and center of gravity to help with cornering and confidence cornering can make significant differences.

Thats useful and again its more relevant to how you get the best out of your body rather than the bike. The OP is ready to get rid of a perfectly good bike cos he is unhappy with it as opposed to looking at setup or his own fitness. You dont make yourself fit the bike, you make the bike fit you.

dennisn

jibberjim wrote:

SmoggySteve wrote:

Its not about the bike, it all about the engine!!!!!!!

In the positions I've set up my R3 and RS, I lose about a minute in a 10mile TT at the same watts.

The position on a bike can make a lot of difference, the frame would be minimal, but aerodynamics, and center of gravity to help with cornering and confidence cornering can make significant differences.

I don't think anyone is arguing that proper bike fit and position doesn't make subtle differences. For me, reading the OP's posts makes it seem that he believes that by simply buying something he will become faster. That's a sign of an inexperienced rider / racer, and someone should tell him(and I think a few have) that it really is him that's the problem and not the bike.

Grill

saprkzz wrote:

Letap73, thank you, yes exactly what I was thinking, I am not worried about the "engine" quite happy how fast I am generally, just not on the circuit on the R5 lol

There are different style of bikes, race frames, sportive frames, etc etc, the R5 is totally different set up to the S5, like the Tarmac is to the roubaix, when I compared my riding on two different bikes my performance on the R5 was different. I didn't like the feel of it on the circuit, I couldn't achieve what I had ALREADY achieved, so I want to swap it for a different frame.

So I wanted to know if people had good experiences on bikes like Tarmac sworks ,Orbea orca gold, bikes like this that are known to be race frames, pkripper your welcome to make an offer

Wow. Just wow.

As easy as it is to tear this all apart, let me just ask a simple question:
How do the Garmin-Sharp boys do it on the R5?

It's not about the bike.

ADIHEAD

Simple, and cheaper option would be to book yourself and the R5 into the same centre that did the retul fit on the Moda and see if they can advise you on why perhaps you're less happy with the R5's setup. Like others, I can't believe that once you've got it set up properly and have got used to it that you won't turn a decent performance on the R5 - I know a guy who finished just outside the top 10 on a circuit riding a £500 Scott with cheapo wheels and a triple as couple of weeks ago - first race as well with no training session;-)

smoggysteve

There are different style of bikes, race frames, sportive frames, etc etc, the R5 is totally different set up to the S5, like the Tarmac is to the roubaix, when I compared my riding on two different bikes my performance on the R5 was different. I didn't like the feel of it on the circuit, I couldn't achieve what I had ALREADY achieved, so I want to swap it for a different frame.

You can buy a Tarmac and a Roubaix with exactly the same wheels, groupset, finishing kit with the only difference being the actual frame. Do you know which is faster? Neither. The Tarmac is built to give a faster response for bursts of speed like a sprint to the line or for bursting away from the peloton halfway up a climb, whereas the Roubaix is designed to keep you pushing out the miles over a long sustained period. If you rode them both for around 20 miles you would not notice much of a performance difference between the two, the Tarmac would be quicker off the mark but only just. Again, same wheels, groupset, crank, weight, etc The Tarmac is designed to be stiffer in different places to the Roubaix, Thats why TT bikes exist. They offer a different variation on a theme by making certain parts more suitable to sustained riding at speed. Not for the fast then slow group race with hills and things to negotiate. Stick with the bike you have and get it fit to you so you can make the most of it.

thegibdog

I have an aggressive, fast and racy Litespeed Vela frameset that I will happily swap for your Cervelo R5.

dnwhite88

rozzer32 wrote:

I agree the frame isn't the issue. You put Wiggins or Cav on your R5 and they'd still smash it. Put them on an Alu bike with Sora, they'd still smash it. Dan Martin rides an R5 and he was right up there with Wiggins, J Rod, Nibali etc last week.

I agree to spend your money on coaching or a bike fit. These have been the best two things I've spent money on for my cycling.

+1-if you are comfortable of the bike then keep it and just keep getting the miles in, the frame you have is plenty 'fast'

crikey

Cycling truly is the new golf....