Zesty or Five?

Thewaylander

andy_welch wrote:

I see we're back to the Five bashing again. Why? I just don't get it. If the Five doesn't appeal to you then fine, but why the need to rubbish other people's choices? It just makes it sound as though you are insecure about your own choice.

there is alot of 5 bashing because, its not particularly advanced, it's very cheap and literally 9-% of them that pass you, or you pass on the trail make an awful racket of squeeks and the rest.

It's an old old suspension design thats not particularly compliant in anyway, and it costs the earth to get, its neither light or over the top strong to offer an argumetn for it either way(As its so light for hte money, or its so much tougher than anything for burl grhh)

Yet it's owners always seem to try and explain why it's so awesome.

Yes i have test ridden a 5, yes it was the worst bike i've ever ridden in that catagory of bike.

andy_welch

Maybe the people who own them just like them. What's so wrong with that?

Whether is is "advanced" or not hardly seems that important. It's a bike, not a jet fighter. None of them are particularly advanced. Personally I suspect that a lot of the so called advanced designs are little more than smoke, mirrors and marketing BS. As I said, after many months of testing I think my Giant Maestro system does work better than the single pivot on the Five for the sort of XC mincing that I do. but even there the advantage is subtle (shown up more by Strava times than and noticeable advantage in the way it feels).

But, as I say, I don't hold any particular candle for the Five. It's probably not the bike for me, but if you like it and can afford it then good for you. I hope you enjoy it.

rockmonkeysc

To be fair the Five isn't the only crude, overweight and overpriced bike thats available. There's also the Alpine 160, 322, Patriot, ST4 and Gyro.

styxd

RockmonkeySC wrote:

To be fair the Five isn't the only crude, overweight and overpriced bike thats available. There's also the Alpine 160, 322, Patriot, ST4 and Gyro.

rockmonkeysc

I do quite like the Orange Blood though.

Thewaylander

RockmonkeySC wrote:

I do quite like the Orange Blood though.

What the one made in the east?

rockmonkeysc

Yes, I believe it was. It's also been discontinued.

lawman

andy_welch wrote:

Personally I suspect that a lot of the so called advanced designs are little more than smoke, mirrors and marketing BS.

Which is exactly what Orange do, they market the hell out of the made in UK tag and charge more for it, which alot of people largely ignore or don't think about. If Orange moved production to the far east, they'd lose a lot of customers, so they need to market the made in UK tag and its simple to the death to sell bikes.

As you say yourself you prefer the ride of the trance, which uses a much, much more complicated and advanced manufacturing process and suspension design. I can see why people are drawn to the Five, I think the 17" size they do which combines the 16" seattube with the 18" toptube is brilliant and more people should make sizes like that, but the rest of the bike does not add up for me.

miss notax

*sigh*

Well I like my 5 :oops:

I like the way it rides, it may look a bit clunky and sound like sh!t most of the time, but surely that's my call and no-one elses??! All bikes are bit of a compromise aren't they, and i'm very happy with mine. So there

I would never recommend buying a complete bike though - get a frame and spec it yourself (it'll be cheaper).

Thewaylander

And tahts cool,

but someone said it was an aspirational bike... you can't not expect the forum not to bite lol

miss notax

I would expect nothing less

EH_Rob

I've no idea why they stopped making the Blood, nice bikes.

All bikes are a compromise, but not all of them are made out of scaffolding.

miss notax

Yeah, yeah, yeah......

rockmonkeysc

EH_Rob wrote:

I've no idea why they stopped making the Blood, nice bikes.

Nice bike but no one bought it. They rode great, I thought it rode better than the Transition Bottolrocket

supersonic

Intereting question, but what makes a bike ride 'well' or great to poeple? (this is going off topic, but the thread is evolving - I'll split it if needs be). If a 1k bike rides brilliant, why pay for a 2k bike that rides brilliant?

badly_dubbed

cheers for the read folks, i had a Five SE a few years back and loved it, but in the end a saner head prevailed money wise, and also fancied something that also looked good (have to agree the Five looks bland, rode well but was bland looking)....

so with that i went and ordered a Zesty 314....pretty much the same spec as the 514 i posted on page one, but no carbon frame and no thomson parts........the zesty rode well, and was quirky looking, so won in the end

http://www.lapierre-bikes.co.uk/mtb/tra ... /zesty-314

hopefully, ive made the right choice!

handsome devil

You`ve definitely made the right choice...in my opinion of course!!

And that folks is what these forums really are...opinions!! Generally speaking of course but probably 90% opinion and 10% fact.

Everything is subjective...I love the Zesty and think the 5 is rubbish...so what! I won`t cry if someone else says the Zesty is bollocks. If you post on a forum asking advice, you will generally get good, bad and indifferent. There are those that have an opinion of a bike they`ve never ridden, those that state how great the bike that they have just purchased is the best thing since The Smiths and those that genuinely have ridden lots of bikes and can give an in depth analysis of why Bike A rides/sounds/looks better the Bike B so there we have it...enjoy!!

lawman

Even MBR gave the 314 a higher mark than the five!! :shock: Imo the zesty is the better bike, its much better specced, looks much nicer and cheaper too!

badly_dubbed

nah im not too fussed if someone doesnt like the choice, id rather much sooner have a bike i like, and i like the ride of....than a bike someone else likes the look of...but i dont find the ride is too great.

looking forward to being back on a mtb after a few years over on the black stuff

Woody80

You'll be pleased with the Zesty, I had one as a stop gap and it was fantastic

Thewaylander

I'm always right.. except when someone tells me im wrong :P

mrmonkfinger

andy_welch wrote:

I see we're back to the Five bashing again. Why? I just don't get it.

folded aluminium is unfashionable
people don't believe that a single pivot design works as well as other suspension designs
'made in england' isn't worth paying for
etc

rockmonkeysc

mrmonkfinger wrote:

andy_welch wrote:

I see we're back to the Five bashing again. Why? I just don't get it.

people don't believe that a single pivot design works as well as other suspension designs
'made in england' isn't worth paying for
etc

Nothing wrong with single pivots, Orange just use a particularly crude single pivot design.
The Taiwanese frame manufacturers have bigger, more efficient factories which can produce higher quality frames to more modern designs and at lower prices.

97th choice

supersonic wrote:

Intereting question, but what makes a bike ride 'well' or great to poeple? (this is going off topic, but the thread is evolving - I'll split it if needs be). If a 1k bike rides brilliant, why pay for a 2k bike that rides brilliant?

I split the difference and bought an 1800 quid bike for 1300 that was supposed to ride brilliant. Luckily for me it does!

If you look at model ranges the frames are usually similar with better components as you go up. Frankly I don't think going from X5 to XX1 is going to make a bike ride brilliant if it was never any good in the first place.

Maybe a decent F & R shock can get more out of a bike, personally I'd be tempted to go from the open bath 125mm fox forks on my bike to 140mm fit forks, I can't say whether it would make the bike any more brilliant or transform my MTB existance, but I'm sure fox wants me to think so!

rockmonkeysc

97th choice wrote:

Maybe a decent F & R shock can get more out of a bike, personally I'd be tempted to go from the open bath 125mm fox forks on my bike to 140mm fit forks, I can't say whether it would make the bike any more brilliant or transform my MTB existance, but I'm sure fox wants me to think so!

I had the same open bath fork on my Trance, I replaced it with a 140mm Rockshox Pike and it made transformed the ride of the bike. Partly due to the better damping and partly due to the geometry change. i also had a Giant Reign X with crap, low spec suspension which I replaced with top spec Lyriks and a PUSH tuned Fox Van RC and that made the bike feel much nicer.

mrmonkfinger

RockmonkeySC wrote:

Nothing wrong with single pivots, Orange just use a particularly crude single pivot design.
The Taiwanese frame manufacturers have bigger, more efficient factories which can produce higher quality frames to more modern designs and at lower prices.

On the factory front I agree. Orange are kind of stuck with their folded alu after investing in the production line, and they're low volume compared to the big boys, which ups their cost.

Crude? Yes. However, I'm not sure 99% of the general public would be able to really tell the difference between the orange single pivot and a linkage driven single pivot though. Its mostly psychological, I think.

I do wonder if their whole range will soon follow the 322 now that they've got a progressive rate in the frame with the lowered front shock mount.

rockmonkeysc

mrmonkfinger wrote:

Crude? Yes. However, I'm not sure 99% of the general public would be able to really tell the difference between the orange single pivot and a linkage driven single pivot though. Its mostly psychological, I think.
.

Nukeproof's linkage system makes a huge difference with the triple rate. The rising rate first third gives excellent small bump sensitivity, the linear mid travel keeps it feeling nice and plush until it gets deep in to the travel where it ramps up again to cope well with big hits and heavy landings. Orange have nowhere near that sort of sophistication with their single pivot.

andy_welch

Maybe not, but the question is whether most average punters can tell the difference.

Also, I've never understood why you need complicated (often harder to maintain) frame designs in order to control the way the shock behaves. Why can't you just design (or use) a shock that has the response you want? They're not just simple springs any more.

Not trying to start another fight by the way. That's a genuine question. If I wanted to design a bike that behaved a certain way then I'd probably work on the shock, but bike manufacturers seem to focus on the frame. So there must be a good reason I guess.

mrmonkfinger

RockmonkeySC wrote:

Nukeproof's linkage system makes a huge difference with the triple rate. The rising rate first third gives excellent small bump sensitivity, the linear mid travel keeps it feeling nice and plush until it gets deep in to the travel where it ramps up again to cope well with big hits and heavy landings. Orange have nowhere near that sort of sophistication with their single pivot.

No, but, it's possible to tune the rate of an air shock, and these are available off the shelf.

andy_welch wrote:

Also, I've never understood why you need complicated (often harder to maintain) frame designs in order to control the way the shock behaves. Why can't you just design (or use) a shock that has the response you want? They're not just simple springs any more.

Mystifies me, too. After all, cars have had progressively wound coilover units for aeons, coupled to very simply suspension layouts. It wouldn't be impossible to do that on a bike unit. And that's assuming you need to stick with a coil spring. Most average punters I see out on the trails are riding air units.

rockmonkeysc

You can tune the rate of an air shock but that only gives one curve or linear rate, it can't give the sort of characteristics you can tune in with clever linkage design.
It's a lot easier to tune in different characteristics with coil winding's than with an air shock. It could be done using multiple air chambers but it would be more expensive and harder to maintain than a linkage.
To have bike specific wound coils would be an issue because manufacturers would have to do them in different weights to suit various sized riders so changing a spring would then get very expensive.
Linkages are cheap, reliable and the weight adjustment can be done with a cheap, linear spring or by adding/removing a bit of air.