Garmin edge 500, do I need the cadence thingy majic?
xchudy_1325
Posts: 85
I really only want to use it for strava but how accurate is the avg speed using GPS? Is the cadence attachment really needed? Or will I get along without it, and save a few penny's in doing so
Thanks for reading
Thanks for reading
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Comments
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I have the cadence thingy with my 500, I've still been running Cyclemeter(gps) at the same time on my iPhone. Today I cycled 52 miles, 0.1 difference on my average speed between the two.0
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Bozman wrote:I have the cadence thingy with my 500, I've still been running Cyclemeter(gps) at the same time on my iPhone. Today I cycled 52 miles, 0.1 difference on my average speed between the two.
That shows how accurate your iPhone GPS speedometer is not the edge 500 GPS speedometer I think as the edge is using the cadence to measure its speed0 -
xchudy_1325 wrote:Bozman wrote:I have the cadence thingy with my 500, I've still been running Cyclemeter(gps) at the same time on my iPhone. Today I cycled 52 miles, 0.1 difference on my average speed between the two.
That shows how accurate your iPhone GPS speedometer is not the edge 500 GPS speedometer I think as the edge is using the cadence to measure its speed
True, but it shows me that I've spent £170 on something no better than a Cateye Strada and an iPhone app.
I can't see the Garmin having a worse GPS than an iPhone, hopefully someone will confirm it for you.0 -
Just to be pedantic but cadence is crank revolutions and nothing to do with speed (as the unit doesn't know what gear you are in).
Does the Garmin definitely use the speed sensor rather than its GPS capability to measure speed? If the GPS then it is hardly surprising that it is almost identical to the, also GPS, iPhone.
Begs the question why did you buy it when if all you want is speed & Strave upload ( not cadence by the sound of it) you just needed an iPhone bike mount. Maybe I could part exchange my Wahoo bike mount for your Edge 500!0 -
I'm in the market for a Garmin 500 as well. I know it is more expensive than an Android app however: better battery life, no phone in a pocket (thinking crash), waterproof, and breadcrumbs route planning when cycling. I think I'll leave the cadence and save the money.
Now, wiggle or amazon???Felt z95 - loving my first road bike0 -
i thought i wouldnt use cadence either, its now 1 of the things i look at most. its easy to get into a low cadence slumber and not realise it.0
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Cadence is not NEEDED but if you're into training its sometimes desirable.
Garmin gps has a lot better battery life than an iPhone but its pants for making calls on or listening to music.0 -
ianshotton wrote:Just to be pedantic but cadence is crank revolutions and nothing to do with speed (as the unit doesn't know what gear you are in).
Does the Garmin definitely use the speed sensor rather than its GPS capability to measure speed? If the GPS then it is hardly surprising that it is almost identical to the, also GPS, iPhone.
Begs the question why did you buy it when if all you want is speed & Strave upload ( not cadence by the sound of it) you just needed an iPhone bike mount. Maybe I could part exchange my Wahoo bike mount for your Edge 500!
Garmin Cadence sensor also has a speed sensor using a wheel magnet. It is positioned in such a way as to track a magnet on the wheel and one on the crank arm.0 -
I've just got the basic unit and it does everything I need it for. A brilliant little unit IMO and my best friend after my bike. I am thinking about getting the add ons for it and probably will do at some stage (perhaps next birthday) but not high on my list of priorities ... I think there are some good deals on 500s if you look around for them and if you can get the full package it might be a good investment for the future0
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Personally, getting a Garmin cadence sensor was one of the best things I've ever done. It's completely changed my cycling and made me realise how easy it is to underestimate my cadence. Before I got the sensor I thought I was pedalling away at a reasonable cadence but now I realise I was grinding away at 70rpm. Increasing that to 90rpm felt very counter-intuitive at first and I still have to monitor it all the time to make sure I don't fall back into old habits, but the upshot is I can cycle faster and (crucially) for much longer than I could before.0
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feemackenzie wrote:I'm in the market for a Garmin 500 as well. I know it is more expensive than an Android app however: better battery life, no phone in a pocket (thinking crash), waterproof, and breadcrumbs route planning when cycling. I think I'll leave the cadence and save the money.
Now, wiggle or amazon???
Handtec are usually cheaper!0 -
I don't have a Garmin but do have cadence on my (Cateye) computer. I think it is helpful but only for a limited time.
By which I mean that it took me a few rides (no more than 10 max) to get a clear sense of what each cadence felt like. Now I can accurately estimate just from "feel" what cadence I am doing, to within about 5 rpm accuracy. This has been really helpful in helping me use a higher, more comfortable cadence, but I now do this naturally, so I no longer really need it.
If you're a bit tight for money, I'd suggest just counting against a stopwatch on your Garmin for a bit, and then you will develop the internal sense of what rate you are doing.0 -
I had a Cateye Strada (double wireless*) - before I got my Garmin Edge 800 as a christmas prezzie.
A lot more expensive than the Cateye to be sure but...
It works. Flawlessly, every time...
The Cateye generally works for about an hour before it freezes and does weird shit for the rest of the ride. I constantly had to reconnect it to the cadence/speed sensor and it was a general pain in the butt. Maybe its better in the summer, I dunno but the Cateye is now in a box in my garage to be sold on ebay or wherever, when I get around to it. The garmin defaecates all over it in so many ways it's almost unbelievable.0 -
Oh, and yeah, as topcattim said -I found that once I'd measured my cadence a few times I generally knew the feel well enough afterwards to not need the cadence meter any more.0
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You guys are probably much better cyclists than I am. I find that when I do it on "feel" sometimes I'm right but other times, especially when I'm tired, I can be a bit off from what I think I'm doing. The Garmin really helps me keep my cadence range within about 5rpm most of the time which I find makes things easier for me.0
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You do not need it but I would recommend getting as a package with the (soft strapped) HRM and cadence sensor for anyone about to buy.
I have not bothered to use either accessory yet (have only had the 500 for 3 rides) but I know I will want to incorporate those fields into training shortly and if I did not have them, might just keep putting it off.
Had a Forerunner (watch) for running and it was invaluable for training. The 500 is proving to be the same for cycling.
I kept putting off buying the 500 due to having the forerunner, but should have got one ages ago.
I am thinking that heart rate info might be better/more useful than the cadence sensor, but I probably would have bought cadence sensor first if as an add on at a later date.
I would be interested to know how GPS and cadence sensor readings differ for speed and distance.
Speed takes a long time to register using GPS but I feel is very accurate over long distances and for actual distance and average speed.
I assumed that the wheel magnet/sensor was only to give a more immediate/accurate speed reading, but had nothing to do with distance (in the same way as a non GPS unit would)?
Surely GPS is more accurate for distance and average speed than wheel revolutions?
Its sooooo much better than using an iphone (and a lot cheaper
), but then some people use an ipad to take photos, when I find a camera does a better job! 0 -
Gunna get it in red (HRM & cadence/speed) when I get the bike hopefully by the end of next week, this next week is going to go so slow
Thanks for all the replies,
Oh and I'm guilty of sometimes using the iAd to take pictures lol :oops:0 -
Have the red too
It had to be done as have black/white/red bike
Out of interest, do you have an iphone (or other smart phone with a good camera)? And if so, why not use that for photos over the ipad? I have neither so unsure of quality etc.
When I have seen people do it I have always felt they have just wanted to hold their ipad up for everyone to see, but maybe there is another reason.0 -
Carbonator wrote:Have the red too It had to be done as have black/white/red bike
Out of interest, do you have an iphone (or other smart phone with a good camera)? And if so, why not use that for photos over the ipad? I have neither so unsure of quality etc.
When I have seen people do it I have always felt they have just wanted to hold their ipad up for everyone to see, but maybe there is another reason.
my bike will be more black, with white effects, so the red edge 500 will just look better on the frame, plus my attire will follow black/white/red theme so it will all match lol
with the ipad, we just always take it everywhere, we dont find it a bother to carry around, just the misses has a iphone 3gs and i have dslr, and the ipad falls inbetween for ease of and instant uploading to facebook0 -
I'm sorry but I don't think it is possible to know 'accurately' what your cadence is just from feel. There are times when you think you are getting on ok, only to see that it is lower than you thought. Particularly when you do a longer ride of 4 hours or more!topcattim wrote:I don't have a Garmin but do have cadence on my (Cateye) computer. I think it is helpful but only for a limited time.
By which I mean that it took me a few rides (no more than 10 max) to get a clear sense of what each cadence felt like. Now I can accurately estimate just from "feel" what cadence I am doing, to within about 5 rpm accuracy. This has been really helpful in helping me use a higher, more comfortable cadence, but I now do this naturally, so I no longer really need it.
If you're a bit tight for money, I'd suggest just counting against a stopwatch on your Garmin for a bit, and then you will develop the internal sense of what rate you are doing.
On the flat you may be able to work it out with a stopwatch but as soon as you hit a hill, it is very difficult to 'accurately' use this method.
IMHO what's the use in roughly knowing it.0 -
GPS speed is almost instant and is fairly accurate. Using a properly set up speed/cadence sensor is more accurate and does measure the distance. The 500 (and 800) give priority to the sensor and use this data. If no sensor is present it uses GPS data. This can cause problems with an incorrectly set sensor giving intermittent readings as the unit takes a while to decide that the sensor is no longer there before switching to GPS. This causes loss of data. It is best to set the wheel size to the correct custom setting as the auto setting is not reliable.Speed takes a long time to register using GPS but I feel is very accurate over long distances and for actual distance and average speed.
I assumed that the wheel magnet/sensor was only to give a more immediate/accurate speed reading, but had nothing to do with distance (in the same way as a non GPS unit would)?
Surely GPS is more accurate for distance and average speed than wheel revolutions?0 -
Well, I guess that all we can safely conclude from this is that some people can learn to feel their cadence while others haven't yet or can't.TheFD wrote:
I'm sorry but I don't think it is possible to know 'accurately' what your cadence is just from feel. There are times when you think you are getting on ok, only to see that it is lower than you thought. Particularly when you do a longer ride of 4 hours or more!topcattim wrote:I don't have a Garmin but do have cadence on my (Cateye) computer. I think it is helpful but only for a limited time.
By which I mean that it took me a few rides (no more than 10 max) to get a clear sense of what each cadence felt like. Now I can accurately estimate just from "feel" what cadence I am doing, to within about 5 rpm accuracy. This has been really helpful in helping me use a higher, more comfortable cadence, but I now do this naturally, so I no longer really need it.
If you're a bit tight for money, I'd suggest just counting against a stopwatch on your Garmin for a bit, and then you will develop the internal sense of what rate you are doing.
On the flat you may be able to work it out with a stopwatch but as soon as you hit a hill, it is very difficult to 'accurately' use this method.
IMHO what's the use in roughly knowing it.
I genuinely can estimate my cadence to an accuracy of 5 rpm. I wouldn't claim to be able to be more accurate than that, but would argue that I don't ever really need to be. After all, I've learned the rate at which I can turn most effectively, and that that is in the 85 to 95 range so that is what I aim for.
Seriously, even if you do have a cadence meter (as I do), try estimating first before looking at the meter. It can't do any harm to learn to listen to your body.0 -
John.T wrote:
GPS speed is almost instant and is fairly accurate. Using a properly set up speed/cadence sensor is more accurate and does measure the distance. The 500 (and 800) give priority to the sensor and use this data. If no sensor is present it uses GPS data. This can cause problems with an incorrectly set sensor giving intermittent readings as the unit takes a while to decide that the sensor is no longer there before switching to GPS. This causes loss of data. It is best to set the wheel size to the correct custom setting as the auto setting is not reliable.Speed takes a long time to register using GPS but I feel is very accurate over long distances and for actual distance and average speed.
I assumed that the wheel magnet/sensor was only to give a more immediate/accurate speed reading, but had nothing to do with distance (in the same way as a non GPS unit would)?
Surely GPS is more accurate for distance and average speed than wheel revolutions?
I would not say GPS speed was almost instant, it seems quite a delay to me. I'll try both and see what I think.
Saying that, I am more than happy with the lag as I only want a rough idea of speed when at a constant pace while out on a ride anyway.
Cannot help but feel GPS is going to be more accurate than wheel revolutions though. Any inaccuracy in set up is going to be multiplied by thousands of wheel turns.
Guess its not that big a deal though in terms of a training/performance aid. I'll just try it and see. I want to see if cadence is helpful and may just not bother with the sensor long term.0 -
Carbonator wrote:John.T wrote:
GPS speed is almost instant and is fairly accurate. Using a properly set up speed/cadence sensor is more accurate and does measure the distance. The 500 (and 800) give priority to the sensor and use this data. If no sensor is present it uses GPS data. This can cause problems with an incorrectly set sensor giving intermittent readings as the unit takes a while to decide that the sensor is no longer there before switching to GPS. This causes loss of data. It is best to set the wheel size to the correct custom setting as the auto setting is not reliable.Speed takes a long time to register using GPS but I feel is very accurate over long distances and for actual distance and average speed.
I assumed that the wheel magnet/sensor was only to give a more immediate/accurate speed reading, but had nothing to do with distance (in the same way as a non GPS unit would)?
Surely GPS is more accurate for distance and average speed than wheel revolutions?
I would not say GPS speed was almost instant, it seems quite a delay to me. I'll try both and see what I think.
Saying that, I am more than happy with the lag as I only want a rough idea of speed when at a constant pace while out on a ride anyway.
Cannot help but feel GPS is going to be more accurate than wheel revolutions though. Any inaccuracy in set up is going to be multiplied by thousands of wheel turns.
Guess its not that big a deal though in terms of a training/performance aid. I'll just try it and see. I want to see if cadence is helpful and may just not bother with the sensor long term.
When you say GPS speed has a delay is this just your experience with one unit or several devices? I find mine to be very quick to change so either it is a matter of perception, a slightly dodgy unit or if it is several devices it suggests GPS signal interference in your area. If you are happy with this delay, fine, but this could therefore suggest a greater error in your GPS readings. A properly calibrated wheel sensor should always be more accurate than a GPS reading for speed/distance due to the (variable) error nearly always present in GPS readings. Otherwise, you are right, a poorly calibrated wheel sensor is likely going to cause a greater error0 -
I quite agree. I use 'auto pause' set to 'when stopped' and it triggers in about one second whether I am riding a bike with a sensor or one without. As regard accuracy the important factor is "properly calibrated". It is then constant and does not suffer from GPS accuracy changes. Just set this as one of fields and see how it varies.thejimmymethod wrote:Carbonator wrote:John.T wrote:
GPS speed is almost instant and is fairly accurate. Using a properly set up speed/cadence sensor is more accurate and does measure the distance. The 500 (and 800) give priority to the sensor and use this data. If no sensor is present it uses GPS data. This can cause problems with an incorrectly set sensor giving intermittent readings as the unit takes a while to decide that the sensor is no longer there before switching to GPS. This causes loss of data. It is best to set the wheel size to the correct custom setting as the auto setting is not reliable.Speed takes a long time to register using GPS but I feel is very accurate over long distances and for actual distance and average speed.
I assumed that the wheel magnet/sensor was only to give a more immediate/accurate speed reading, but had nothing to do with distance (in the same way as a non GPS unit would)?
Surely GPS is more accurate for distance and average speed than wheel revolutions?
I would not say GPS speed was almost instant, it seems quite a delay to me. I'll try both and see what I think.
Saying that, I am more than happy with the lag as I only want a rough idea of speed when at a constant pace while out on a ride anyway.
Cannot help but feel GPS is going to be more accurate than wheel revolutions though. Any inaccuracy in set up is going to be multiplied by thousands of wheel turns.
Guess its not that big a deal though in terms of a training/performance aid. I'll just try it and see. I want to see if cadence is helpful and may just not bother with the sensor long term.
When you say GPS speed has a delay is this just your experience with one unit or several devices? I find mine to be very quick to change so either it is a matter of perception, a slightly dodgy unit or if it is several devices it suggests GPS signal interference in your area. If you are happy with this delay, fine, but this could therefore suggest a greater error in your GPS readings. A properly calibrated wheel sensor should always be more accurate than a GPS reading for speed/distance due to the (variable) error nearly always present in GPS readings. Otherwise, you are right, a poorly calibrated wheel sensor is likely going to cause a greater error0
