How DO you know if a bike is stolen when you buy?

raymondo60

Bought a bike off ebay last year,one of several I've bought over recent years. I was looking for a cheapish but decentish road/hybrid bike for a young lad who was a friend of my daughter - he's keen to take up cycling and only had a BSO MTB.
So, weeks of looking through ads, Cycling Weekly, local rag, online etc, eventually resulted in a used but fairly decent Charge Filter Hi on ebay. Obviously second hand and in need of a quick service, few chips on the frame but really quite usable - won it for £256.00, which I thought a fair price (i.e. not so cheap as to arouse suspicion). During the bidding process I regularly checked the 'Bike Stolen' forum entries on here and other sites. Looked up the feedback of the seller who had sold a few other bikes over recent months but had solid lowish feedback. If you checked me out on ebay I've probably sold half-a-dozen bikes in the last 2/3 years, as well as cars. When auction ended we communicated by mobile phone - seller texted me an address which was in a block of flats, and I met him there during a lunch break, though I didn't go up to the flat itself but met at ground level. Seemed a nice guy - I even looked him in the eye and said 'This IS a straight bike isn't it mate?" etc, though in reality I didn't expect him to answer in other other way than saying 'Of course'. However, at no point did I feel the deal was 'dodgy' and I like to think I'm reasonably shrewd and sensible.

Three months later, got a call from Local Police 'Bike Recovery Unit' regarding 'bike you bought from ebay recently'. Turns out is was stolen though I've yet to conclude the matter with them - this is not a fast process by any means though I'm sure the Police have higher priorities. Don't know as yet whether I'll need to return the bike or what. I'll cross that bridge when I come to it. Not looking forward to telling the young guy I bought it for, but again I'll deal with that as and when.

Question is - what more could I have done? I could have asked for an original receipt but I've sold loads of bikes and stuff without having one myself. As yet I'm not even sure if the guy I bought it from is the one under suspicion - might have been further along the line. I hate to think that I may in some way have contributed to the 'stolen bike' industry - I've been the victim of bike theft myself, though many years ago. I'm not someone who looks for a deal that's 'too good to be true' as it usually is - I honestly felt I took all the precautions I could have when doing the deal. Is buying 2nd hand bikes and kit going to be a thing of the past? Can we ever truly know if a bike is 'straight' when we buy online and unseen?

veronese68

I think you have to go with your gut to a certain extent. The wording of the ad is often the biggest clue, does the listing just quote the manufacturers specs? A genuine owner would know what's been done to the bike. When I recently sold my bike I detailed all the bits that had been changed. I still had the original CX tyres that had been replaced and a couple of other bits and gave the buyer the option of which he wanted.
I would suspect someone who has sold a few bikes. Add that to the quality of the listing and ask a few pertinent questions. Very difficult to be certain, you just have to minimise the odds.
My bike had been stolen and I found it on Ebay 6 weeks later. The listing was textbook stolen bike. Listed the manufacturers spec exactly and the photo showed extras that I'd added that were not mentioned. Thankfully I managed to get the bike back with the help of the police. He didn't have any more bikes on Ebay as that seller id, but a quick Google of his mobile number revealed 5 other bikes for sale in various places, all with different names. Unfortunately he was let off as they said they couldn't prove he stole them. He claimed he'd bought them at the market.

tim_wand

Sounds like you did most things you could. and I feel for you on this one.

I tend to ask quite technical questions. like what groupset has it got. what wheelset has it got ,as it had any upgrades, what size is the top tube or seattube centre to centre.

Most scum bag bike thieves wont be able to answer these questions accurately. sure they can read XT or Dura ace of a groupset, but ask them what Series is it . I.E 7800 etc.

I once enquired about a Cannondale Caad 9 on line to be told by the bloke it had a Japanese groupset and was probably carbon.

Okay not everyones this stupid, but a lot of bike thieves arent as anal or knowledgeable as we are and a few more in depth questions tends to weed them out.

VTech

I dont think you could of done anything, you have to remember that many thieves are professionals, professional thieves but professional either way.
The bike is not yours however so you will lose money, but if you paid on card you can charge back, if not you may have a couple of options, the way they got your info would suggest the thief was caught and so they traced his ebay activity so it may be the owner wants the bike back or the insurance company have paid out on it, if this is the case they would usually sell it to you at a nominal fee of around £20/£100 of true market value.

danlikesbikes

Short of changing to only buying from sellers who have a documented history of the bike, owners manual I don't think that you could have done anything else. Even then it could be 2nd hand to them so they might never have any such paperwork.

raymondo60

Veronese68 wrote:

I think you have to go with your gut to a certain extent. The wording of the ad is often the biggest clue, does the listing just quote the manufacturers specs? A genuine owner would know what's been done to the bike. When I recently sold my bike I detailed all the bits that had been changed. I still had the original CX tyres that had been replaced and a couple of other bits and gave the buyer the option of which he wanted.
I would suspect someone who has sold a few bikes. Add that to the quality of the listing and ask a few pertinent questions. Very difficult to be certain, you just have to minimise the odds.
My bike had been stolen and I found it on Ebay 6 weeks later. The listing was textbook stolen bike. Listed the manufacturers spec exactly and the photo showed extras that I'd added that were not mentioned. Thankfully I managed to get the bike back with the help of the police. He didn't have any more bikes on Ebay as that seller id, but a quick Google of his mobile number revealed 5 other bikes for sale in various places, all with different names. Unfortunately he was let off as they said they couldn't prove he stole them. He claimed he'd bought them at the market.

I understand what you are saying and agree, but I myself have sold more than a 'few' bikes on ebay too so could just as easily be 'suspected'. I once had a 'clearout' and sold 3 bikes at the same time to 3 different buyers.....

veronese68

Raymondo60 wrote:

Veronese68 wrote:

...I would suspect someone who has sold a few bikes. ...

I understand what you are saying and agree, but I myself have sold more than a 'few' bikes on ebay too so could just as easily be 'suspected'. I once had a 'clearout' and sold 3 bikes at the same time to 3 different buyers.....

Understand that. Not saying it's an assumption of guilt, just one of the possible indicators.
That or you're an incredibly cunning bike thief looking for advice.

rolf_f

Raymondo60 wrote:

Veronese68 wrote:

I think you have to go with your gut to a certain extent. The wording of the ad is often the biggest clue, does the listing just quote the manufacturers specs? A genuine owner would know what's been done to the bike. When I recently sold my bike I detailed all the bits that had been changed. I still had the original CX tyres that had been replaced and a couple of other bits and gave the buyer the option of which he wanted.
I would suspect someone who has sold a few bikes. Add that to the quality of the listing and ask a few pertinent questions. Very difficult to be certain, you just have to minimise the odds.
My bike had been stolen and I found it on Ebay 6 weeks later. The listing was textbook stolen bike. Listed the manufacturers spec exactly and the photo showed extras that I'd added that were not mentioned. Thankfully I managed to get the bike back with the help of the police. He didn't have any more bikes on Ebay as that seller id, but a quick Google of his mobile number revealed 5 other bikes for sale in various places, all with different names. Unfortunately he was let off as they said they couldn't prove he stole them. He claimed he'd bought them at the market.

TBH, most of the bikes I've looked at on Ebay have been listed by people who regularly sell bikes. The ones I tend to look at are not the sort of bike that are probably that likely to be stolen so I really wouldn't assume that a regular seller of bikes is in any way suspicious. I'd go far more with points already made - eg quality of description and quality of response to questions. The ultimate is probably to ask what type of bottom bracket the bike has. I doubt that there is a thief anywhere who could respond convincingly to that one!

I understand what you are saying and agree, but I myself have sold more than a 'few' bikes on ebay too so could just as easily be 'suspected'. I once had a 'clearout' and sold 3 bikes at the same time to 3 different buyers.....

capt_slog

Along the same lines..

I'm currently looking for Garmin GPS devices to put on my bike, so I searched under "garmin 305 edge". Quite a few come up, and there are also several from one seller. Each time he has the same crappy description (or lack of) and each one is "unit only".

The question I'm asking myself is "Where are all the handlebar mounts?" to which the cynic's obvious answer is "Still on the handlebar of the poor bugger it was filched off". I've seriously considered bringing this to plod's attention apart from the sheer number he's selling (+ other GPS stuff) makes me think he must be legit

VTech

Capt Slog wrote:

Along the same lines..

I'm currently looking for Garmin GPS devices to put on my bike, so I searched under "garmin 305 edge". Quite a few come up, and there are also several from one seller. Each time he has the same crappy description (or lack of) and each one is "unit only".

The question I'm asking myself is "Where are all the handlebar mounts?" to which the cynic's obvious answer is "Still on the handlebar of the poor bugger it was filched off". I've seriously considered bringing this to plod's attention apart from the sheer number he's selling (+ other GPS stuff) makes me think he must be legit

Ask for the serial number, do it within ebay for security and then contact garmin and check if it is stolen.

stigofthedump

Capt slog.
If you are in any way suspicious report the seller to E aby. Tell them you concern just as you have described. No legitimate seller will mind being checked out.
Recently the news had a story that benefit claimants were 'advised' to go self employed 'selling stuff on E bay'.
Once you have emptied your loft, what else are you going to sell? Large turnover could be a thief hiding in plain sight.