Nationalisation

Peddle Up!

I've just had notification of this year's council tax. Reading the breakdown on council expenditure I was struck by how much we get for our money (or is that just my strange view of things? :roll:

For example, think how much central heating insurance/satellite and cable subscriptions etc., costs and ask yourself how much (will? :shock: ) would Virgin Highways charge for gritting the roads, G4S for policing the streets, Capita for emptying the bins etc., etc.

So, and in the interests of balancing this thread, I'm asking if people think (re)nationalising crucial industries would work out. Industries run with best modern business practices including proper measurable targets, effective use of IT for the benefit of the citizens of the UK. Or does everyone think privatisation worked out OK? :?

tiredofwhiners

Peddle Up! wrote:

I'm asking if people think (re)nationalising crucial industries would work out.

No, because the minute you take any competitive effect away from an organisation, there is no incentive to be efficient, to produce anything that people want, and to reduce its size when it loses money or is ineffective. Its why much of the 1970's industry went the way of the Dodo. Apart from the fact that it would be illegal under EU legislation unless a sovereign asset, and nothing in the UK is that important.

Peddle Up! wrote:

Industries run with best modern business practices including proper measurable targets, effective use of IT for the benefit of the citizens of the UK.

Indeed, and they have to or go bust. Public sector bodies charge the public more to cover the cost of their incompetence, and few if any, lose their jobs. There is no part of the public sector that could not be done more effectively by a private body, in the short to medium term, but in the long term private bodies with a monopoly start to behave like a public sector body. The only difference is that rewards go to shareholders instead of undeserved pensions and benefits for the staff.

Peddle Up! wrote:

Or does everyone think privatisation worked out OK? :?

As long as there is real competition, privatisation is effective. But the quandary is really what you do when the public sector is so bad that it needs sorting out, but there is no competition to keep a private company 'sharp'. nationalise the railways I hear one poster shout - if that were the answer, why was British rail so utterly dreadful.

As to the assertion as to how much you are geting for your council tax, just remember that half the money goes towards the final salary, inflation proof pensions of the staff and you are paying at least half of their retirement income because they all take out a lot more than they ever put in - which I guess isn't like your pension. If they pay for their own pensions you could have a much lower council tax and could save for you retirement rather than theirs - without affecting services.

daviesee

If I could answer that I'd become Prime Minister for a few years and then go on the all expenses paid tens of thousands a night after dinner speech circuit.

Frank the tank

I think the council tax is very good value, people genuinely don't appreciate what they get for it.

OTOH 9 minutes to get a bite, fantastic.

kieranb

Don't forget price fixing and cartels amongst the so-called private companies competing against each other. Or of totally unrealistic quotes just to get the contract.

ooermissus

Are you sure that key Council services in your area aren't already contracted out to the private sector?

Team4Luke

Many public sector bodies now are not public sector bodies or run in the way many think. There are those that hold trading fund status, those that are semi private, those owned by shareholders (employees) and such newer forms as a dot.gov. These all allow less restrictions on the way they operate and are funded giving the freedom to operate under their own accounting and income and business strategies allowing investment in the future and technology.

verylonglegs

When you say it's good value are you aware that the component you pay as council tax for your home is actually about a quarter of the total funding councils receive in order to provide the services they do, the rest comes from other sources.

AchillesLeftKnee

Peddle Up! wrote:

I've just had notification of this year's council tax. Reading the breakdown on council expenditure I was struck by how much we get for our money (or is that just my strange view of things? :roll:

It's worth bearing in mind that Council Tax is actually a bit of a con because the majority of council funding actually comes from central government, with the level of central government funding being set on a per council basis*. For example, Surrey County Council has an income of roughly £1.7bn this year, of which only £550m is from Council Tax. Personally, I reckon the whole system of local taxation is an outright swizz, and scrapping it and dumping the lot onto income tax would be a much more transparent** system.

On the subject of nationalisation as a whole, whilst I'm not against it in principle, I struggle to see what the benefits of borrowing a pile of money (which we've got to pay for anyway) and using it to buy*** companies for the state with would make anything better.

* Otherwise areas with a low proportion of households not paying would have much lower council tax, and areas with higher proportions of non-payers would have tonking great bills.

** Not mention miles cheaper and easier to administer, and impossible to fail to pay.

*** Okay, so the state could just steal them, but only if it was run by the kind of moron who considers investment in the private sector to be a waste of time. "The government might just nick your business" is a surefire way to drive away legitimate businesses if ever there was one.

bdu98252

The council up our way were looking to make a ten percent saving over the whole budget. They then embarked down this route with bin collection only to find that on average it costs £20 per year to collect a residents bin which is fantastic value by any standard on a two weekly collection. Their answer was to make any resident(s) who lived down a road where the collection was over a minute versus the 30 seconds in a town or city to take their bins to the end of the road.

Personnally I would have been happy to pay £5 more to keep the collection but this is their stupidity to cut a service which is already clearly efficient by removing the service. My bin is now unattended at the top of a main road where on a windy day drivers have to play russian roulette with bins at 60mph.