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Race build up

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  • danlikesbikesdanlikesbikes Posts: 3,898

    Probably because its a manner in which Future publishing can justify their online circulation figures to potential advertisers in lieu of justifying their fee's

    Think laterally FGS.

    The fabric of the cycling community is in amateur clubs, who care nothing for revenue or market share.

    1) I don't care what Future publishing do or don't do - the reason for this thread was for the OP to ask his question of fellow riders & as the OP has already said he had already asked his club mates but was after a wider audience with a faster response

    2) I think you'll find that by answering the OP's questions we are all thinking laterally. Definition "is solving problems through an indirect and creative approach, using reasoning that is not immediately obvious and involving ideas that may not be obtainable by using only traditional step-by-step logic"

    3) see above - I'm a member of a pretty sizeable club and without revenue we would not be able to pay for our BC membership, have a youth squad that we pay to ride abroad and cover entry fees, run training events for members, run our own forum for our own members also to ask questions, organise club runs, organise racing, run Go-ride events on behalf of BC or even exist as a club. So I think you'll find that the fabric of the cycling community can be found right here on this forum & in clubs up and down the country and the rest of the world and it seems that they all care about cycling and having the revenue to support themselves with the exception of your club which I can only assume has no sponsorship, no insurance & does not pay BC membership fees.
    Pain hurts much less if its topped off with beating your mates to top of a climb.
  • danlikesbikesdanlikesbikes Posts: 3,898
    bigmat wrote:
    Oh to be in the position where I could plan my nutrition around a race, get there in time to warm up etc etc. For me its usually a case of getting ther with just enough time to sign on, pin on number and do a couple of laps to check which way the wind is blowing. At 3/4 cat, there's no real need to do a full warm up, you can generally warm up over the first few laps. I guess if I actually had time for a proper warm up then I could really attack from the off and catch people cold...

    Luckily can ride to my local circuit as the warm up!
    Pain hurts much less if its topped off with beating your mates to top of a climb.
  • Tom DeanTom Dean Posts: 1,723
    Did he get away while you were still warming up? If so you have 3 excuses :)

    'Ridiculous' is a bit strong, but yeah, OP - I would just ride out to the race. You don't want to look like you are trying too hard in a 4th cat crit.
  • okgookgo Posts: 4,368
    Well the point I was making that I completely went against what most people would do in that I went out got steaming drunk the night before, rode 30 miles to the race, and had no warm up, and NONE of that made any difference to the outcome. People over-think every aspect of cycling so much so thought I'd just illustrate that sometimes just getting on with it instead of worrying is the best bet.
    Blog on my first and now second season of proper riding/racing - www.firstseasonracing.com
  • Tom DeanTom Dean Posts: 1,723
    True but presumably you a. weren't planning on attacking and b. were confident of not getting dropped, early on in the race. The benefits of a good warm up if either of these don't apply are pretty clear.

    edit: just noticed, make that 4 then!
  • okgookgo Posts: 4,368
    4 what?

    I like knowing why I didn't do better so I can try and win next time. Would drive mental coming midfield every week and not being able to improve on it. Have you changed your warm up? Perhaps it's the answer...
    Blog on my first and now second season of proper riding/racing - www.firstseasonracing.com
  • Tom DeanTom Dean Posts: 1,723
    1, no warm up.
    2, didn't know the finish
    3, wrong gear in the sprint
    4, rat arsed the previous night :) Is the question for me?
  • okgookgo Posts: 4,368
    I suppose it's just a mindset thing. I know I am capable of winning at that level, so I scrutinise my rides as to why I didn't. I suppose this isn't your mindset for reasons I can understand.
    Blog on my first and now second season of proper riding/racing - www.firstseasonracing.com
  • Tom DeanTom Dean Posts: 1,723
    Ah I get it. I think you have actually looked up my results :lol:

    I'll change my mindset, but when I scrutinise my performance in a sprint (which BTW I was definitely strong enough to win!) in a discussion about warm ups, I'm worried people will think I'm just drawing attention to how awesome I am.

    ps I am capable of winning!
  • jgsijgsi Posts: 5,026
    AK_jnr wrote:
    Can you guys walk me through my first race please. Castle Combe this sunday. 30 minutes plus 3 laps.

    What sort of warm up, what to put in my jersey etc.

    It would be much appreciated.

    nah, you can make the same c*ck ups like the rest of us.. it's a learning curve :wink:
  • DavidJBDavidJB Posts: 2,019
    edited March 2013
    okgo wrote:
    DavidJB wrote:
    DavidJB wrote:
    joe.90 wrote:
    i do about 10 mins warm up on the rollers, take an energy gel just before and then only take 1 small bottle half full for the race.

    Good attempt at trolling but I've spotted it.

    What's going on here then, I feel like I've missed something?

    Sorry that warm up and advice is so terrible I thought it was a joke. Why do you need a gel before you start racing?? You have over an hours glycogen stores in your muscles...the only thing you're doing by taking a gel is getting fat. Plus 10 minutes warm up come on. 10 minutes isn't even the warm up of a warm up.

    lol, as if anyone bothers warming up for an hour for a bloody 4th cat crit, just do 10 min warm up and off you go. As said nothing is going to stick so you could even just turn up to the line cold and use the first few laps to warm up? I've done both with no major difference in outcome.

    People overthink it hugely, I raced at the weekend, I rode 30 miles to the race, stood around for an hour watching my mate, then had a 5 min warm up and did my race. It made ZERO difference to the outcome.

    Yeah because I race 4th cats... :roll: A 10 minute warmup is pointless you may as well do nothing...ok an hour is overkill for 4th cat I'll give you that but 30 minutes is probably about right.Good habits early will see you right going forward.

    I know one thing when attacks start right from the off in an E/1/2 I'm glad I warmed up and that's all us poor 2nsd cats get to race around here...I'm having to venture to Surrey League this weekend just to race a 2/3 :\
  • jgsijgsi Posts: 5,026
    I'm just glad I race as a vet now... none of us have energy to waste :wink:
    Riding in does score points though..( riding back after 50 race miles scores even more )
  • ProssPross Posts: 24,252
    I'd disagree with anyone saying you can use the first few laps to warm up. In my experience the first few laps of a circuit race or first few miles of a road race tend to be when people ride hardest and without a decent warm up you can easily get shelled out before you settle into the race.
  • okgookgo Posts: 4,368
    DavidJB wrote:
    okgo wrote:
    DavidJB wrote:
    DavidJB wrote:
    joe.90 wrote:
    i do about 10 mins warm up on the rollers, take an energy gel just before and then only take 1 small bottle half full for the race.

    Good attempt at trolling but I've spotted it.

    What's going on here then, I feel like I've missed something?

    Sorry that warm up and advice is so terrible I thought it was a joke. Why do you need a gel before you start racing?? You have over an hours glycogen stores in your muscles...the only thing you're doing by taking a gel is getting fat. Plus 10 minutes warm up come on. 10 minutes isn't even the warm up of a warm up.

    lol, as if anyone bothers warming up for an hour for a bloody 4th cat crit, just do 10 min warm up and off you go. As said nothing is going to stick so you could even just turn up to the line cold and use the first few laps to warm up? I've done both with no major difference in outcome.

    People overthink it hugely, I raced at the weekend, I rode 30 miles to the race, stood around for an hour watching my mate, then had a 5 min warm up and did my race. It made ZERO difference to the outcome.

    Yeah because I race 4th cats... :roll: A 10 minute warmup is pointless you may as well do nothing...ok an hour is overkill for 4th cat I'll give you that but 30 minutes is probably about right.Good habits early will see you right going forward.

    I know one thing when attacks start right from the off in an E/1/2 I'm glad I warmed up and that's all us poor 2nsd cats get to race around here...I'm having to venture to Surrey League this weekend just to race a 2/3 :\

    You raced a lot of 4th cat races last year from what I can see.

    10 mins isn't pointless IMO. It's all I ever do for anything. See you Saturday.
    Blog on my first and now second season of proper riding/racing - www.firstseasonracing.com
  • AK_jnrAK_jnr Posts: 717
    Thanks for all the help. Maybe I have been looking to much into it. But I just want to be prepared and relaxed.
    Anyone else racing with me Sunday?
  • danlikesbikesdanlikesbikes Posts: 3,898
    Sorry marshalling on Saturday & birthday party afterwards - it is a good course though.

    Just remember to enjoy yourself and whilst your getting your race fitness up it is hard and sometimes not nice but keep your head down, ride your legs off & enjoy.
    Pain hurts much less if its topped off with beating your mates to top of a climb.
  • DavidJBDavidJB Posts: 2,019
    okgo wrote:

    You raced a lot of 4th cat races last year from what I can see.

    10 mins isn't pointless IMO. It's all I ever do for anything. See you Saturday.

    I raced 1 4th only crit @ dunsfold. The rest were 3/4's. Now I only really get to ride E/1/2 crits if I want to stay local. Are you sure you're looking at the right rider ;)

    And if you're looking at my results I also started to warm up correctly near middle of the season...

    At the end of the day a good warm up is great mental prep for me to get into the race, I think it's important you don't so we'll agree to disagree. Probably I could get away with it in a 2/3/4 for sure...people aren't attacking right off the gun so hard and this conversation has become more about whats right or wrong for me and you rather than helping the OP!

    Come and say hi on Saturday you'll find me on the turbo or out on the track an hour before ;)
  • The longest warm up I've done is an hour - riding from work to a race one night last year.
    The shortest warm up I've done is 0 - it was peeing down and I didn't want to get soaked before the race started.

    In the race with the long warm up I came 3rd. In the race without warming up I won.

    What does that prove?

    Nothing.

    If it's your first race (or you're new to it) just ride around a bit. If you finish the race and think "hmm, I got dropped early" or "damn I couldn't go with the early moves because I wasn't warmed up enough" then warm up more next time.

    We're all different. The absolutely KEY thing when it comes to racing is to analyse how you went after the fact then work on what you did wrong or what is limiting you and concentrate on that. It could be that you need to warm up more. It could be that you need to warm up less. In a 3/4 race your warm up probably has nothing to do with anything and your time would be better spent working on everything else.

    Whatever happens enjoy your race and good luck. :)
  • AK_jnrAK_jnr Posts: 717
    edited March 2013
    Hi guys.

    Just back from my first race today at Castle Combe.

    Horribly windy and quite a big field of 50 ish I believe it was.

    My race craft/tactics were pretty awful as I spent most of the race moving myself from the back of the pack to the front hence coming round the final bend on the last lap I was at the back. I managed to finished 10th I think it was. I'm happy knowing that the power is there I just need a the race craft.

    Quite an eye opener, I didn't know if I could last the pace after the first couple of laps!

    There was a nasty crash beside me and I nearly came off myself, bumping bars with someone.

    I got my timings all wrong with the warm up as I ended up being sat by the track for about 15 minutes. Wooops

    Bring on the next race!
  • danlikesbikesdanlikesbikes Posts: 3,898
    Well done mate, sounds like a good day then :)
    Pain hurts much less if its topped off with beating your mates to top of a climb.
  • samg123samg123 Posts: 275
    AK_jnr wrote:
    Hi guys.

    Just back from my first race today at Castle Combe.

    Horribly windy and quite a big field of 50 ish I believe it was.

    My race craft/tactics were pretty awful as I spent most of the race moving myself from the back of the pack to the front hence coming round the final bend on the last lap I was at the back. I managed to finished 10th I think it was.
    Another 100m and I think I could have won as everyone was falling away or coming back to me but there we go, I'm happy knowing that the power is there I just need a the race craft.

    Quite an eye opener, I didn't know if I could last the pace after the first couple of laps!

    There was a nasty crash beside me and I nearly came off myself, bumping bars with someone.

    I got my timings all wrong with the warm up as I ended up being sat by the track for about 15 minutes. Wooops

    Bring on the next race!

    The guy you bumped bars with- I think that was me! Closest to crashing I've come in about 7 races...
    Managed to get enough points for my 3rd cat licence i think, so hoping the races will be a bit safer!
  • AK_jnrAK_jnr Posts: 717
    Ah congrats! Any idea how long it usually takes for results to show?
  • okgookgo Posts: 4,368
    DavidJB wrote:
    okgo wrote:

    You raced a lot of 4th cat races last year from what I can see.

    10 mins isn't pointless IMO. It's all I ever do for anything. See you Saturday.

    I raced 1 4th only crit @ dunsfold. The rest were 3/4's. Now I only really get to ride E/1/2 crits if I want to stay local. Are you sure you're looking at the right rider ;)

    And if you're looking at my results I also started to warm up correctly near middle of the season...

    At the end of the day a good warm up is great mental prep for me to get into the race, I think it's important you don't so we'll agree to disagree. Probably I could get away with it in a 2/3/4 for sure...people aren't attacking right off the gun so hard and this conversation has become more about whats right or wrong for me and you rather than helping the OP!

    Come and say hi on Saturday you'll find me on the turbo or out on the track an hour before ;)

    How did it go? Didn't see you I don't think?

    To the OP results usually on BC site by midweek :)
    Blog on my first and now second season of proper riding/racing - www.firstseasonracing.com
  • DavidJBDavidJB Posts: 2,019
    okgo wrote:
    DavidJB wrote:
    okgo wrote:

    You raced a lot of 4th cat races last year from what I can see.

    10 mins isn't pointless IMO. It's all I ever do for anything. See you Saturday.

    I raced 1 4th only crit @ dunsfold. The rest were 3/4's. Now I only really get to ride E/1/2 crits if I want to stay local. Are you sure you're looking at the right rider ;)

    And if you're looking at my results I also started to warm up correctly near middle of the season...

    At the end of the day a good warm up is great mental prep for me to get into the race, I think it's important you don't so we'll agree to disagree. Probably I could get away with it in a 2/3/4 for sure...people aren't attacking right off the gun so hard and this conversation has become more about whats right or wrong for me and you rather than helping the OP!

    Come and say hi on Saturday you'll find me on the turbo or out on the track an hour before ;)

    How did it go? Didn't see you I don't think?

    To the OP results usually on BC site by midweek :)

    Congrats on 2nd ;) I raced badly and paid for it. Lolled pretty hard when there was almost a crash in the neutralised zone though.
  • samg123samg123 Posts: 275
    AK_jnr wrote:
    Ah congrats! Any idea how long it usually takes for results to show?
    Most likely Wednesday, though some websites get the results quicker than BC update them.
    Also, I apologise for shouting 'CAREFUL' really loudly- not quite sure what I was trying to achieve, but sometimes my brain shouts pointless things in stressful situations!
  • AK_jnrAK_jnr Posts: 717
    Haha it happened through the last chicane that sound right? I would blame you for cutting across me! :p lol just messing.

    Where's your first 3rd race gonna be then? Gotta be a road race!
  • samg123samg123 Posts: 275
    Yeah that sounds right, and someone went across the grass? I was on the left, holding my line quite nicely until it all kicked off to my right!
    I've actually already done a road race, the Springtime Pursuit down in Devon- I think my first 3rd race will be the Easter Classic at Castle Combe: my bank account needs a bit of time off from racing!
  • ozzzyosborn206ozzzyosborn206 Posts: 1,340
    it doesn't matter how much someone else warms up all that matters is what works for you, you can only find that out by trial and error. Personally I think i could probably start a 2,3,4 race cold and just sit in for the first 10 mins and be ok, however if i was doing an E,1,2,3 I would deffo want to get at least some form or warm up in even if it was just a 10-15 min spin with a few sprints.
  • AK_jnrAK_jnr Posts: 717
    Second race today. 10th again, bit disappointed as I tried a lone break that sadly failed lol. Never mind. On to Mountbatten tomorrow!
  • iPeteiPete Posts: 6,076
    AK_jnr wrote:
    Second race today. 10th again, bit disappointed as I tried a lone break that sadly failed lol. Never mind. On to Mountbatten tomorrow!

    Fair play for getting stuck in!
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