Gruppos

goonz

Is there really such a big difference?

I understand there are weight differences but performance wise do they really make a massive change? What do you notice the most?
I have 105 gruppo and I switched the brakes for Ultegras but personally apart from a slight weight advantage I have not seen any difference in braking at all.

Is there a difference across brands? Say the campag equivalent of 105 (centaur)? vs the 105?

pride4ever

Veloce is nearer 105 if youve ever actually used both, but no the differences dont explain the pricing at all.

Grill

Entry level to top of the line is night and day. Everything else is incremental. You'll notice the difference most when you're used to say DA or SR and then ride 105 or Veloce.

pride4ever

Grill wrote:

Entry level to top of the line is night and day. Everything else is incremental. You'll notice the difference most when you're used to say DA or SR and then ride 105 or Veloce.

This^^^^ although the pricing structure is pure profiteering.

rolf_f

goonz wrote:

I have 105 gruppo and I switched the brakes for Ultegras but personally apart from a slight weight advantage I have not seen any difference in braking at all.

You reckon you noticed a slight weight advantage?!! I think if you could tell any difference between any cartridge fitted dual pivot brake of any major brand then you'd probably be the sort of person who could feel a pea under 10 mattresses!

As for Campag, I doubt there is much difference between Veloce and Record aside from weight. Much of the component parts of each item are identical aside from the lettering printed on them and the odd minor component that Campag use to justify the cost loading - a lighter metal or bearing rather than bushing.

goonz

You are right Rolf, the weight perception was probably just in my mind from knowing there is a slight weight difference.

wellbeloved747

Between the actual brakes bar weight their is no difference, the only difference will come if you use different pads or set up the cable tension differently.

goonz

I have just bought some kool stop duo pads as the standard pads seem to wear out so quickly for me. Wonder whether there will be any difference in performance?

smidsy

goonz wrote:

I have just bought some kool stop duo pads as the standard pads seem to wear out so quickly for me. Wonder whether there will be any difference in performance?

Better for the pads to wear out than your rims though

sunburntknees

Rolf F wrote:

goonz wrote:

As for Campag, I doubt there is much difference between Veloce and Record aside from weight. Much of the component parts of each item are identical aside from the lettering printed on them and the odd minor component that Campag use to justify the cost loading - a lighter metal or bearing rather than bushing.

Veloce is 10 speed. Record is 11.

thegreatdivide

sunburntknees wrote:

Rolf F wrote:

goonz wrote:

As for Campag, I doubt there is much difference between Veloce and Record aside from weight. Much of the component parts of each item are identical aside from the lettering printed on them and the odd minor component that Campag use to justify the cost loading - a lighter metal or bearing rather than bushing.

Veloce is 10 speed. Record is 11.

Veloce is entirely composite and metal. Record is predominantly carbon and metal. The shape of the front derailleur is different and the rear derailleur knuckle is afaik different - not much though (don’t have my bikes at hand).

I’ve got Veloce Ultra-Shift and Power-Shift, Athena (silver Power-Shift) and Super Record 2012. Veloce is a clunky wee groupset but it does the job. Athena gives you 11-speed and the shifting is crisp but smooth. SR is in another dimension compared to Veloce. If anyone claims they can’t notice a difference between the bottom and top of Campagnolo’s range they’re lying.

Can this thread please decent into a groupset comparison slating? We haven’t had one for at least two weeks!

SRAM sounds and feels like a tractor right through the range – Shimano just looks cr4p

Pross

goonz wrote:

I have just bought some kool stop duo pads as the standard pads seem to wear out so quickly for me. Wonder whether there will be any difference in performance?

Kools Stops are a decent step up from most pads but Swiss Stop are even better. I haven't had them long enough to get a good idea of wear speed but they seem to be virtually untouched after a few hundred miles in winter conditions. Stopping wise though they are clearly better than my Kool Stop salmons or the standard Kool Stop pads.

pride4ever

thegreatdivide wrote:

sunburntknees wrote:

Rolf F wrote:

goonz wrote:

As for Campag, I doubt there is much difference between Veloce and Record aside from weight. Much of the component parts of each item are identical aside from the lettering printed on them and the odd minor component that Campag use to justify the cost loading - a lighter metal or bearing rather than bushing.

Veloce is 10 speed. Record is 11.

Veloce is entirely composite and metal. Record is predominantly carbon and metal. The shape of the front derailleur is different and the rear derailleur knuckle is afaik different - not much though (don’t have my bikes at hand).

I’ve got Veloce Ultra-Shift and Power-Shift, Athena (silver Power-Shift) and Super Record 2012. Veloce is a clunky wee groupset but it does the job. Athena gives you 11-speed and the shifting is crisp but smooth. SR is in another dimension compared to Veloce. If anyone claims they can’t notice a difference between the bottom and top of Campagnolo’s range they’re lying.

Can this thread please decent into a groupset comparison slating? We haven’t had one for at least two weeks!

SRAM sounds and feels like a tractor right through the range – Shimano just looks cr4p

You might want to oil your Veloce Groupset cos mine runs like butter.

thegreatdivide

There's nowt wrong with the Veloce on my bikes, they shift just fine - but try SR then you'll see that it's clunky ;-)

southdownswolf

Campag Athena (silver) is by far the best looking gruppo. In the words of James Hetfield - Nothing else matters.

Gabbo

1670 g for SRAM Red 2013
2047 g for Dura Ace 9070 Di2
1978 g for Dura Ace 9000

308g of difference. Quite a bit if you ask me!

pride4ever

thegreatdivide wrote:

There's nowt wrong with the Veloce on my bikes, they shift just fine - but try SR then you'll see that it's clunky ;-)

Used it, not enough difference to justify the expense.

napoleond

I have Athena and SR.

Athena is great. SR is sublime.

jonny_trousers

southdownswolf wrote:

Campag Athena (silver) is by far the best looking gruppo. In the words of James Hetfield - Nothing else matters.

He's not wrong, you know.

thegreatdivide

pride4ever wrote:

thegreatdivide wrote:

There's nowt wrong with the Veloce on my bikes, they shift just fine - but try SR then you'll see that it's clunky ;-)

Used it, not enough difference to justify the expense.

You rock.

rolf_f

thegreatdivide wrote:

sunburntknees wrote:

Rolf F wrote:

goonz wrote:

As for Campag, I doubt there is much difference between Veloce and Record aside from weight. Much of the component parts of each item are identical aside from the lettering printed on them and the odd minor component that Campag use to justify the cost loading - a lighter metal or bearing rather than bushing.

Veloce is 10 speed. Record is 11.

Veloce is entirely composite and metal. Record is predominantly carbon and metal. The shape of the front derailleur is different and the rear derailleur knuckle is afaik different - not much though (don’t have my bikes at hand).

I’ve got Veloce Ultra-Shift and Power-Shift, Athena (silver Power-Shift) and Super Record 2012. Veloce is a clunky wee groupset but it does the job. Athena gives you 11-speed and the shifting is crisp but smooth. SR is in another dimension compared to Veloce. If anyone claims they can’t notice a difference between the bottom and top of Campagnolo’s range they’re lying.

Can this thread please decent into a groupset comparison slating? We haven’t had one for at least two weeks!

SRAM sounds and feels like a tractor right through the range – Shimano just looks cr4p

I should have said I was referring specifically to Ultrashift and Ultratorque groupsets - even Campagnolo couldn't find much to distinguish between them in their Catalogues and that is no doubt why they developed Powershift. The rear 11 speed mechs do look a little different but the 10 speed Record etc, again, look almost identical to Veloce and the same applies to front mechs. I assume a great deal of difference between Power gruppos and Ultra gruppos but within those groupings the differences are superficial and I'm sceptical that they would result in a significantly different feel.