Building Wheels

Chris65

I have been looking at wheel Jigs with a view to getting one for truing wheels. Reading reviews on them it would seem that buying a cheap one is not a good option as they can be flimsy. I did fancy the Park TS-8 which Merlin have for £72 but some reviews say that is not too good an option (I am suprised as all the Park tools I have are quality). The next up the line is the Park TS2.2 which costs £200 a heafty rise. That's a lot for truing
What I was realy considering is it worth building wheels at all when a decent set can be got for £250.

ctc

I've just about finished building my first set. Mainly because I wanted to rather than I was going to make a big saving by doing it.

I've been using the webbline stand which cost £62 including delivery. It was nice and sturdy and I've not had a problem truing up the wheels I've built with it.
I did um and ah about which one to get. Nearly spent £160 on a parks TS2 but I'm now glad I didn't. I don't think it would have made too much difference to my wheel building skills...
I did get the Parks tensiometer. I know in the wheelpro book he says you don't need it, and you can do the whole thing through the tone, but I found I was a lot more confident knowing what tension I had, and also that the spokes were all (relatively) equally tensioned.
Spoke keys were cheap, but it took me a while to work out that I was using one slightly too big. I had looked at the pictures where he was using a red spokey. The ones I bought the red spoke key was the larger size, and I should have been using the Blue spokey... So some of the nipples look a bit scratched
First wheel I did lace up wrong first time round :-) but eventually got there. I'm building two pairs, the first pair was archetype rims on some 105 hubs I got off my old wheels, and so I treated them as a bit of a practice. These I'll use on the winter/commuter bike.
I got a pair of 7900 2nd hand but unused hubs for £180 of ebay, and I'm building those up with archetype rims too. These will be for the best bike.
I've actually really enjoyed making them, even after having to undo the front wheel to get it right,. I've probably not saved any money, but I do have the tools now, and I wouldn't mind making some more, and I would not have any problems fixing them when they do go wrong

waterford123

When I first got a job in a bike shop the wheel builder used a pair of old steel forks upside down in the vice. That was 24 years ago and in Cornwall so read into that what you will.

desweller

Mine is made out of blockboard and bits of steel bar I had lying around. I've built, what, half a dozen or so wheels on it? No complaints so far.

Get the Wheelpro book if you need a basis for your design.

ugo.santalucia

As above, the quality of the jig and the quality of the wheel are pretty much unrelated. Spoke tension, technique and patience will give you the best results.
All the toys and gadgets are nice and make your life easier, but the end result is the same

Monty Dog

Agree - as long as the stand is robust, then it's fit for purpose, it's the skill of the builder that makes the difference. You can still build rubbish wheels on a £2000 stand - only it'll give you a computer print-out of how bad they are!

ugo.santalucia

... infact I would be weary of those trying to sell you wheels at a premium boasting a more expensive jig as proof of their quality...
Read whatever you want into that...

sunburntknees

I know in the wheelpro book he says you don't need it, and you can do the whole thing through the tone

Roger Musson says you CAN'T tension spokes by tone!

He does include a design for a DIY truing rig however. So you can build one yourself for next to nothing, if you really want to save money!

I've got the IceToolz one. Clamping the wheel is a bit fiddly as it only has one arm, but it does have truing guage (not sure how accurate it is, but I have no reason to believe it isn't).

ctc

Another bit I obviously didn't read well enough! :-)

rrsodl

sunburntknees wrote:

I know in the wheelpro book he says you don't need it, and you can do the whole thing through the tone

Roger Musson says you CAN'T tension spokes by tone!

He does include a design for a DIY truing rig however. So you can build one yourself for next to nothing, if you really want to save money!

I've got the IceToolz one. Clamping the wheel is a bit fiddly as it only has one arm, but it does have truing guage (not sure how accurate it is, but I have no reason to believe it isn't).

I suggest you read the book again if I remember correctly he encourages people to use tone for equalising spoke tension and also for truing.

I totally agree that you can build a wheel in a bicycle fork if you like but it's nicer using a good stand.

What Paolo says about people charging a premium for building wheels in super duper jigs is true, you would only be contributing to pay for a nice toy but you wont get a better wheel You will never get a wheel that is 100% perfect. A wheel that is trued with a tolerance of 0.002 is a very good wheel, nearly perfect if you like, provided it also has even tension.

I bought a webbline jig once and I had to send it back..... it was totally CR*P - I probably got a bad one, still the workmanship was very poor indeed to say the least.

desweller

It must be pretty awkward to eliminate runout using a fork though.

ctc

I've got to admit I wondered if it was going to be OK when I first got it out, and the finish was rough in some places. However, once I started using it, it actually worked pretty well. It kept the wheel clamped firmly and when I was spinning it, it remained solid. The guides looked pretty cheap, but after I put some white paper underneath I found they worked pretty well.
I think if you had the DIY skills and tools the jig in the Wheelpro book would be cheap and good. However, I don't have those skills or tools... After I bought the Webbline jig, I found someone at work who said he would knock me up a wheelpro one. When I get it I'll post how it compares

bigpikle

So just how hard is it to build a wheel once you have a stand?

For a while I've been wanting to have a go but not known where to start. This ebook looks like a good start but I'm wondering if its a total non-starter for someone without any experience in this sort of stuff? My old man could knock me up the stand from the book in no time and I really fancy building a set of tubs to ride on

desweller

The book is clear and easy to use. It's not desperately hard; follow the instructions and you'll be reet!

sunburntknees

RRSODL wrote:

sunburntknees wrote:

I know in the wheelpro book he says you don't need it, and you can do the whole thing through the tone

Roger Musson says you CAN'T tension spokes by tone!

He does include a design for a DIY truing rig however. So you can build one yourself for next to nothing, if you really want to save money!

I've got the IceToolz one. Clamping the wheel is a bit fiddly as it only has one arm, but it does have truing guage (not sure how accurate it is, but I have no reason to believe it isn't).

I suggest you read the book again if I remember correctly he encourages people to use tone for equalising spoke tension and also for truing.

I totally agree that you can build a wheel in a bicycle fork if you like but it's nicer using a good stand.

What Paolo says about people charging a premium for building wheels in super duper jigs is true, you would only be contributing to pay for a nice toy but you wont get a better wheel You will never get a wheel that is 100% perfect. A wheel that is trued with a tolerance of 0.002 is a very good wheel, nearly perfect if you like, provided it also has even tension.

I bought a webbline jig once and I had to send it back..... it was totally CR*P - I probably got a bad one, still the workmanship was very poor indeed to say the least.

I understood the OP to be referring to the final spoke tension as he referred to the tension meter. In this regard Musson clearly says "you cannot use tone to quantify tension" (page 60).

Monty Dog

A number of factory built wheels use sound to gauge correct tension - Easton for one. You can use a tuning fork too.

rrsodl

I see what you mean. Yes. he does say he doesn't use tone to judge the final tension. I believe he uses feel and tone as in feeling how tight the spokes are and tone to get an even tension. He doesn't normally use a tension meter.

it's obvious that tone won't give you that kind of information. However, once you get a couple of spokes at the right tension (I have to use a tension meter to confirm that) you can go round using tone to check the rest of the spokes have about the same tone, you won't get the same pitch everywhere but I found that I'm not further than 4% or 5% from the average tension. The method works well for me.

CTC

The one I got sent was unusable - the two arms were not on the same level - only fit for scrap metal if I'm honest. I have to say that Mr Webbline, the store owner, took it back without any trouble, he even sent me a metal spoke key for my troubles. It's a lovely spoke key, it feels nice in the hand but unfortunately it can scratch the rim if you are not careful.

ctc

RRSDOL
You must have got a dodgy one. I spent a bit of time with a spirit level and ruler after I set it up checking that the arms were parallel and everything was equal in height, so was reasonably confident that it wasn't lopsided

rrsodl

CTC wrote:

RRSDOL
You must have got a dodgy one. I spent a bit of time with a spirit level and ruler after I set it up checking that the arms were parallel and everything was equal in height, so was reasonably confident that it wasn't lopsided

Yeah, I'd like to think it was the odd one out cause I can't see anybody honestly selling such poor quality tools on purpose. However, I have my doubts that your jig looks as good as the jig advertised in the pictures of the website.

bigpikle

OK - any suggestions for how to get started with this? I've bought the ebook from Wheelpro and am looking to start having a play...

I have some handbuilt 32h wheels on a bike so will be studying those to look at how they are laced, tensions etc but dont really want to take them apart. I guess a rim, some spokes and an old/cheap/used hub might be the way to go to practice with, or is it worth buying the hub/rim combo I'd like to build up anyway and just getting stuck in? TBH the whole spoke length thing is a little intimidating right now and I'm not sure where to start?

desweller

Check the book and make sure you understand how each stage in the process works.

Make your tools (esp. the ERD measurement tools). It's worth getting a tension meter IMO.

It's easier to build a 32-spoke wheel with a reasonably strong rim as the rim will be more tolerant if you overload it. I started with a Rigida Sputnik, which is probably overkill in that department.

I don't know if anyone else will agree with this but I now use a short checklist to help me with my builds:

1. Check nipples for size (I've been supplied with mixes of nipples sizes before now) 2. Oil rim holes 3. Oil spoke threads 4. Lace wheel to desired pattern 5. Set a low tension (just enough to be able to pluck an audible low note) 6. Set radial true (much easier to do when the wheel is loose as you need a relatively large displacement to correct it) 7. Set lateral true 8. Check dish and adjust if required 9. Stress relieve wheel 10. Check tension Around 100kgf to 110kgf for the front wheel No more than 120kgf for rear wheel drive side 11. Repeat steps 6 to 11 until you're happy