Bad news

Herbsman

I guess most people will have heard about what happened in the Severn Valley RR today and perhaps the Magherafelt GP in Ireland. Difficult to take it in really,just shocked, saddened and worried by both incidents.

imposter2.0

Heard the terrible news about the Severn Valley RR. Hadn't heard about the Irish incident though?

FransJacques

There was some chat around the cyclo-park about this today.

Are there any links?

danlikesbikes

Was there today & is very sad indeed - http://www.bikeradar.com/road/news/arti ... ace-36615/

FransJacques

That's dreadful news. Poor lad, and those who had to witness such an end to what should have been a fun race.

Tom Butcher

Sobering news, just terribly sad

Diamant49

A rider called Ted McKibben has been paralysed from the waist down at the Magherafelt race (its the Spires GP or the Loup). Some information in the link below, not very well written- its towards the bottom, but it was also the result of a collision with a car.

http://cyclingulster.com/?p=11530

theprawn

Very sad, RIP Heff.

ugo.santalucia

The article says he crashed against a car coming in the opposite direction... am I missing something? Was it a race on open roads? :shock: :shock:

imposter2.0

Yes, the race was on open roads - nothing unusual about that.

DavidJB

It's time to change racing on open roads. Roads should be closed / rolling road blocks during a race...period.

danlikesbikes

DavidJB wrote:

It's time to change racing on open roads. Roads should be closed / rolling road blocks during a race...period.

All well & good but closed roads would make the cost of the event rocket (trust me we looked at doing this in our local club).

Rolling road is basically what the race was, but unless the Police give over the powers the organisers do not have the legal power to organise as a rolling road block and shut the side roads down.

Like I said I was there and have been to that race before and competed in many others without incident so don't think there needs to be a backlash against road racing. But without a significant increase in the money the organisers can raise to pay for closing a road down, or having the power/legal police support (though again this is also money related) they simply have their hands tied.

imposter2.0

Agree with the above ^^

Even with CSAS and NEG outriders, there is no guarantee of 100% protection. Full road closure would probably be prohibitive.

ugo.santalucia

Danlikesbikes wrote:

DavidJB wrote:

It's time to change racing on open roads. Roads should be closed / rolling road blocks during a race...period.

All well & good but closed roads would make the cost of the event rocket (trust me we looked at doing this in our local club).

Rolling road is basically what the race was, but unless the Police give over the powers the organisers do not have the legal power to organise as a rolling road block and shut the side roads down.

Like I said I was there and have been to that race before and competed in many others without incident so don't think there needs to be a backlash against road racing. But without a significant increase in the money the organisers can raise to pay for closing a road down, or having the power/legal police support (though again this is also money related) they simply have their hands tied.

Maybe linking them to the charity palaver? People get softer when charity is involved

danlikesbikes

Ugo hard to see a way round this as whatever happens us about increasing funding for race organisers but still making them a commercial success even if they make nil.

I recently saw GNC do a weekly catch up show on YouTube, perhaps if BC did this for road races and any sponsorship they could get paid towards putting the events on??? Just an idea & don't know enough about TV via YouTube or the costs involved.

AK_jnr

What happens with side roads etc? Do you get cars pulling out, holding riders up who then try and gain the time back by overtaking?

maryka

Ideally you have a marshal there if it's a big sideroad (with lots of traffic) but what usually happens in the races I've done is you get NEG guys on motorbikes waiting at the sideroad to block any traffic pulling out while the riders go past. Then the motorbikes overtake the bunch again and go up to the next road, etc.

For oncoming cars, you have the lead cars ahead of the bunch with flashing lights warning cars what's coming (and on the radio warning the commissaire of any problems, like horses or whatever). Where it breaks down is on descents where the lead car must travel well ahead of the bunch to keep from the riders running into them, or where everything is strung out or split apart and the NEG guys have their hands full trying to handle all of it (a 100 rider field can be ~200m long!)

Not sure what happened at the Severn Race as I've heard varying reports, but it sounds as though about 3 things went wrong at once -- e.g., car ignoring marshal, rider too far into the other lane, NEG not there? -- which added up to disaster, where normally any one of those going wrong would be manageable and not end in tragedy.

imposter2.0

AK_jnr wrote:

What happens with side roads etc? Do you get cars pulling out, holding riders up who then try and gain the time back by overtaking?

The race 'convoy' is pretty tightly controlled, for obvious reasons. The race takes place between the lead car (at the front of the race) and the commissaire & medics (at the back). Dropped riders are usually on their own once they have fallen behind the following vehicles. It would be fairly difficult to pull out into the path of the convoy itself, unless the driver was actually intent on doing harm. It has happened though, but the highway code is not suspended for the race, so still has to be followed.

Pross

AK_jnr wrote:

What happens with side roads etc? Do you get cars pulling out, holding riders up who then try and gain the time back by overtaking?

No, the NEG guys leapfrog from junction to junction stopping anyone pulling out. That said, I was lead car on one race and had about a 30m gap behind to the bunch. The NEG held a car until I went past and when they drove on the old biddy slotted in between me and the bunch! I waved her through and she then drove so slowly going into a roundabout where the race does a 180 turn that the bunch had to hit the brakes to avoid running into me.

We really do have to put this unfortunate accident into context though - I have been a club cyclist for 23 years and I can't recall this happening before, most races are well run and well marshalled and courses have to be risk assessed and signed off by the police. There have to be signs every mile and the race convoy is very conspicuous. We really need to fight any people who try to use this accident to ban racing on the road but once the full facts are known learn from it to try to avoid it happening again.

saprkzz

Danlikesbikes wrote:

DavidJB wrote:

It's time to change racing on open roads. Roads should be closed / rolling road blocks during a race...period.

All well & good but closed roads would make the cost of the event rocket (trust me we looked at doing this in our local club).

Rolling road is basically what the race was, but unless the Police give over the powers the organisers do not have the legal power to organise as a rolling road block and shut the side roads down.

Like I said I was there and have been to that race before and competed in many others without incident so don't think there needs to be a backlash against road racing. But without a significant increase in the money the organisers can raise to pay for closing a road down, or having the power/legal police support (though again this is also money related) they simply have their hands tied.

We're you racing or spectating?

danlikesbikes

Spectator that weekend - cheering on a few mates

DavidJB

Danlikesbikes wrote:

DavidJB wrote:

It's time to change racing on open roads. Roads should be closed / rolling road blocks during a race...period.

All well & good but closed roads would make the cost of the event rocket (trust me we looked at doing this in our local club).

Rolling road is basically what the race was, but unless the Police give over the powers the organisers do not have the legal power to organise as a rolling road block and shut the side roads down.

Like I said I was there and have been to that race before and competed in many others without incident so don't think there needs to be a backlash against road racing. But without a significant increase in the money the organisers can raise to pay for closing a road down, or having the power/legal police support (though again this is also money related) they simply have their hands tied.

Good points. Maybe BC can look at ways to get the costs down by working with the authorities.

Tom Butcher

If it were possible I think the biggest change that could be made would be for some roads - and it need only be the relatively narrow ones - be made one way for the duration of the race. Cars getting into the convoy - say between lead car and bunch or between the break and a bunch not that far behind - may be annoying but are not a huge risk factor.

That said I still don't think road racing on open roads under current legislation is that dangerous. If we compare it to other forms of cycle sport I would guess the record in terms of really serious accidents is not that bad - time trialling has had a number of tragedies and I'd guess that serious injury isn't unknown in stuff like BMX or MTB - none of which I would want to ban.

Yes there are things that can be done to make it safer - and in an ideal world that would be great - but if these things become seen as a necessity then all racing under National A level will be on motor racing circuits or coned off airfields.

mamba80

Have to agree that closed/rolling road closures would A : not take place because of cost and objections by drivers/locals etc and B: there isnt the infrastructure in place right now, not enough NEG, Police outriders would make it prohibative.
also, even with powers to stop traffic, there will always be an idiot or two who ignores the NEG etc and what happens then? prosecution after the event is too late.

Personally, i d like to see smaller fields and more races, sticking 80/120 riders on some of the courses/loops i ve raced on is not practical in todays traffic laden roads, especially so as we ve lost almost all the large open courses of yesteryear.

But at the end of the day, a young rider has lost his life and my thoughts are with his parents, he was great young man.

danlikesbikes

mamba80 wrote:

Personally, i d like to see smaller fields and more races, sticking 80/120 riders on some of the courses/loops i ve raced on is not practical in todays traffic laden roads, especially so as we ve lost almost all the large open courses of yesteryear.

It would be a better way to ensure rider safety by having smaller fields, but by running a race with a smaller field we are back to the financial aspect putting more pressure on the organisers to raise funds which they currently struggle to do.

ju5t1n

Someone has started a petition to give NEG riders the power to stop traffic. Deserves our support… http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/46709

imposter2.0

NEG Wales (CSAS-accredited) riders can already stop traffic. Extending the CSAS scheme is all they have to do. It may - or may not - have made any difference in this case though.

danlikesbikes

Imposter wrote:

NEG Wales (CSAS-accredited) riders can already stop traffic. Extending the CSAS scheme is all they have to do. It may - or may not - have made any difference in this case though.

Would/should be a simple fix (though await someone to correct me very shortly) if it was extended to England.

Pumpkin Positive

ju5t1n wrote:

Someone has started a petition to give NEG riders the power to stop traffic. Deserves our support… http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/46709

+1

benno68

Ben Carroll was a member of Cardiff Ajax (my club also), he was a thoroughly good bloke who loved cycling and the outdoors. I was unable to attend the service on Monday but many members turned up, Ben's brother and father were presented with club tops and cycled a climb in the Gower with other South Wales clubs and friends to pay a tribute.

My thoughts are with Ben's family and my club mates who were racing with Ben and supported him in the aftermath.

The NEG riders do a superb job as do the marshalls, thanks to them and the understanding of considerate motorists most races are completed without incident.