Severn Bridge Road Race fatality

disgruntledgoat

frenchfighter wrote:

Good post Pross.

What is the upside for the organisers who go to all this effort before and during the race and then have idiots going against what they ask? Not sure they are really in it for the money?

That's exactly the danger FF, insurance fees spiral, race entries increase in cost, participation dwindles and the sport contracts.

Organisers are in a bit of a Catch 22 place with it however, as any alteration to traffic management (closed roads, closed junctions etc) will have a cost associated with it too.

Road racing is already a crazily expensive hobby and one that comes with an inherent risk of injury, the question is how to minimise that risk and keep the sport accessible.

Pross

frenchfighter wrote:

Good post Pross.

What is the upside for the organisers who go to all this effort before and during the race and then have idiots going against what they ask? Not sure they are really in it for the money?

For me, the upside of organising is that we keep road racing alive. I don't want to end up in a place where the options are multiple laps of a small motor racing circuit or riders turning up all in black on coded courses at the crack of dawn to do a time trial. If commissaires regularly stop races when riders are behaving dangerously and riders who persist in dangerous riding get their licences confiscated it will soon stop that type of behaviour.

I would add that I don't know that this is what happened in this particular incident but like DG and anyone else who has raced I have seen riders move up on the wrong side in the face of oncoming traffic too often. I don't know the Severn Bridge road race route at all but there are plenty of roads in that area that would not have any lane markings.

bigmat

frenchfighter wrote:

Good post Pross.

What is the upside for the organisers who go to all this effort before and during the race and then have idiots going against what they ask? Not sure they are really in it for the money?

I think the organisers do it because they love the sport. And whilst I get what you're saying, I don't think its a case of people being "idiots". Anyone can find themselves in the wrong place at the wrong time and whilst there are things you can do to keep yourself safe, most racers will admit that they've done things that in the cold light of day maybe they shouldn't have in the heart of a race situation.

disgruntledgoat

Hopefully the positive outcome of this tragedy is that next weekend and every weekend after that riders prick up their ears and listen to the brief and engage with it in the manner it is intended rather than as something the organiser has to say.

Organisers can help themselves too, I can think of one course (in the NW) that has a 90 degree bend followed by a narrow humpback bridge (which you can't see over) at the bottom of a long, fast descent. It's impossible to take that bend on the left of the road and stay upright at racing speed.

Roastie

Firstly, condolences to the family and friends. What happened yesterday was very sad, and it has shaken many people.

In response to the comments made: I raced in the 3rd Cat race yesterday and can say that the event was, in my opinion, well organised. The motorcycle escort riders paid particular attention to telling riders to keep left of the line at dangerous places and a clear appeal was made during the briefing to the riders to heed these warnings.

But I didn't witness the event and so make no judgement on what happened, suffice to say that it was extremely sad and tragic.

All that said, if there is a knee jerk reaction, I can only hope that the reaction is positive and that it is made easier for organisers to arrange partial or complete road closures.

frenchfighter

BigMat wrote:

frenchfighter wrote:

Good post Pross.

What is the upside for the organisers who go to all this effort before and during the race and then have idiots going against what they ask? Not sure they are really in it for the money?

I think the organisers do it because they love the sport. And whilst I get what you're saying, I don't think its a case of people being "idiots". Anyone can find themselves in the wrong place at the wrong time and whilst there are things you can do to keep yourself safe, most racers will admit that they've done things that in the cold light of day maybe they shouldn't have in the heart of a race situation.

I agree. Some are idiots and some, as you say, get caught out with no where else to go. Racing to achieve a result, it is hard also not to take risks when you see others doing it when they are the same riders you need to beat to achieve that result.

Rodrego Hernandez

Pross wrote:

First of all condolences to all involved - Junior's family, the other riders who witnessed the incident, the car driver and also the organiser who is no doubt having all his paperwork ripped apart to ensure he had all the relevant signage and was generally in compliance with his risk assessment.

Unfortunately as soon as I first saw this yesterday I knew it would bring people out of the woodwork who have never been involved in amateur racing in this country calling for a ban - I didn't expect it to include people who claim to love the sport though I have to admit. I think there is a slight misconception on the part of some here that you just send a bunch of 80 riders out onto the road with a lead car and a commissaire. That simply isn't the case - you have to provide signage warning vehicles travelling behind and towards the race, the race convoy will usually include 3 lead cars to cover breaks as well as the main bunch then 3 following cars with the commissaires plus medical backup and possibly a broom wagon and service vehicle. The NEG will escort the race and, whilst they don't generally have the power to stop vehicles (Essex and the Welsh forces being the only ones enlightened enough to hand over those powers so far) they will generally wave down oncoming traffic and traffic at junctions. In addition junctions will generally be marshalled although again only accredited marshalls in certain areas are legally allowed to stop traffic but it is incredibly rare for drivers not to stop when asked to (in my experience). In Wales we are lucky that the roads are as close to being under a rolling closure as you can get but ultimately there is always some risk. Riders are warned in the riders' briefing not to cross a solid white line and to avoid crossing the line at all if possible, the comms here are certainly tough and I have seen races neutralised and riders DQd for crossing solid lines or persistently going on the wrong side of the road.

Whilst this accident is tragic it is also a very rare occurrence, I can't recall it happening in the 20 odd years I've been involved in the sport (the closest I can think of is a motorbike outrider getting killed on the Kellogs Tour), the important thing is to learn from it and see what can be done to prevent it happening again. However, this mustn't include a knee jerk reaction to ban racing on the open road - there's not enough as it is and the future Wiggos, Geraints and JTLs just won't make it on a diet of track racing and circuit racing alone. We are not alone in having racing on open roads, even some top continental road races are basically the same open road system just with police escorts.

Really good post. Accidents will and do happen,

Road racing is getting more risky in this country, roads have got busier and rider skill and respect for their peers seems to have decreased.

If the French / Dutch and Belgians can do it, why can't we manage to get closed roads and avoid terrible incidents such as this weekends.

deejay

dab_32 wrote:

I'm not saying open road racing should be banned but what responsibility do the organisers have for the safety of the participants? Surely if they organise an event, they have a duty of care for the riders?

Do riders get disqualified for going on the wrong side of the road? I assume there are as fewer junctions as possible on a route? What happens if a race does meet a junction?

I don't want to get all 'health and safety' but this seems a crazy situation if riders risk their life to gain an advantage in a race that doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things.

The Organiser within the "Budget" of entry fees and (if lucky, Sponsors) will get marshals (some on motor bikes), a Prominent Lead car, a BCF (sorry BC) commissar and assistant commi with an Ambulance to follow. The commissar will get the field together to explain the BC rules of racing and the requirements of the Law (Highway Code) and persistent offenders WILL be disqualified and Licenses could be cancelled. I know I took chances in my day but there are always bigger Idiots than me and the traffic has got worse.
The start flag goes down and every official crosses his fingers that the race proceeds safely and that no one decides to break those rules.
In my day we notified the Police about the course and maybe have to negotiate changes they wanted.
My events would need 3 police areas to be notified (Kent, Surrey, Sussex) and Sussex often sent a Police Motor Bike for free and as we traveled the other two counties we saw the parked police cars watching us until they saw the motor bike man.
Now in this Litigation society we live in, you need more insurance and the Police now want money for their time.
They can hold the organiser to ransom if you don't pay their exorbitant fees then they won't allow the race to take place.

Where does the "Duty" end with some stupid riders but with all the care and preparations taken there can still be accidents. Just watch the Pro's with closed roads.

Good post Pross you seem to have covered it.

PS. The bureaucrats in this country have never allowed Road Racing on open roads with first the Cycles and then Cars and motor bikes.
The cycles were on the roads first (hence they don't pay road tax along with horses and carts or stage coaches) and they got round the "No Racing Ban" by using the Law as it has always been.
That is that there is no law to prevent a solo cyclist proceeding along a public road.
They set up a private club with a guy and his stop watch to record their performances as they rode solo to another man standing in the road to turn them (and record them)for their return ride to get a time.
Oh yes I rode to dead turns on the Bath Road, North Road and my home courses south of the river.
Bureaucracy got busy elsewhere during the war and didn't notice another cycle group racing on mass to a finish line and just like they did on the continent That formed the British League of Racing Cyclists.
Known to us others as "Up The League" as we could only ride in mass (Bunch) on airports and the Isle' of Wight and Man.
I doubt if you could race around "Brands Hatch" on a Thursday evening now.

alfablue

If anyone witnessed this collision (seems that some posting here have done), please contact Avon and Somerset Police if you haven't already, see the website for details

http://www.avonandsomerset.police.uk/Lo ... &t=1&lid=2

RIP Junior