Wheelset upgrade advice

MattDK

Hi all, my first post, but I have benefitted greatly from browsing this forum over the years, so thanks for all the useful info

Bit of background ...

In 2009 I entered the world of road bikes and bought a Condor Fratello to do an unsupported lejog in summer of 2010. I'm now much lighter, fitter and live somewhere flatter and my riding tends to vary between 60-80km training rides and sportif rides of about 130-150km. I've still got a long way to go in terms of fitness, but my riding style has evolved to faster efforts as opposed to the light touring style of the past.

After slamming the stem on the Fratello in an effort to get a more aggressive position, I finally succumbed to N+1 and managed to get a good deal on a Focus Cayo Evo 2.0 2012 from my LBS. (Unfortunately not one of the limited edition 'ocus' models )

Overall the spec of the Cayo Evo 2.0 gets good reviews, I think the finishing kit is of a reasonably high standard given the price point. The one weak area that does come up for criticism is the Fulcrum Racing 5 wheelset, with most reviewers suggesting an upgrade to get the most out of the bike.

Now, I'm in no rush, I know the change from Fratello to the Cayo is going to be night and day (once the weather clears and I can get out on it). And anyway the Racing 5's are likely more than adequate for my level of ability.

But after taking my Fratello wheels to another LBS last year to get trued (Mavic Open Pro rims on 105 hubs) they told me that the rims were very worn and I should think about replacing them in around 12 months or so.

So, to my question(s) ...

- I could move the Fulcrums to the Fratello, now my winter bike. If I did this would they be able to handle light B&B touring? i.e. tubus fly rack and a couple of Ortleib rollers? (I weigh 75kg). Are they easy to repair if a spoke breaks etc?
- One of the reviews of the Cayo Evo I read said that it would benefit from 'sub 1500g' wheels. According to Wiggle, the 2013 5's weigh 1760g I'm really struggling to get my head around a significant noticeable benefit from losing say 300g on the wheels.
- If I set a max budget of say £4-500, preferably less, would I be able to pick up a wheelset that would give me a worthwhile upgrade? Or would I need to spend more?

Of course, the sensible option is just to get new Open Pro rims and have the Fratello wheels rebuilt ..... but ..... you know how it is ....

ugo.santalucia

MattDK wrote:

Hi all, my first post, but I have benefitted greatly from browsing this forum over the years, so thanks for all the useful info

Bit of background ...

In 2009 I entered the world of road bikes and bought a Condor Fratello to do an unsupported lejog in summer of 2010. I'm now much lighter, fitter and live somewhere flatter and my riding tends to vary between 60-80km training rides and sportif rides of about 130-150km. I've still got a long way to go in terms of fitness, but my riding style has evolved to faster efforts as opposed to the light touring style of the past.

After slamming the stem on the Fratello in an effort to get a more aggressive position, I finally succumbed to N+1 and managed to get a good deal on a Focus Cayo Evo 2.0 2012 from my LBS. (Unfortunately not one of the limited edition 'ocus' models )

Overall the spec of the Cayo Evo 2.0 gets good reviews, I think the finishing kit is of a reasonably high standard given the price point. The one weak area that does come up for criticism is the Fulcrum Racing 5 wheelset, with most reviewers suggesting an upgrade to get the most out of the bike.

Now, I'm in no rush, I know the change from Fratello to the Cayo is going to be night and day (once the weather clears and I can get out on it). And anyway the Racing 5's are likely more than adequate for my level of ability.

But after taking my Fratello wheels to another LBS last year to get trued (Mavic Open Pro rims on 105 hubs) they told me that the rims were very worn and I should think about replacing them in around 12 months or so.

So, to my question(s) ...

- I could move the Fulcrums to the Fratello, now my winter bike. If I did this would they be able to handle light B&B touring? i.e. tubus fly rack and a couple of Ortleib rollers? (I weigh 75kg). Are they easy to repair if a spoke breaks etc?
- One of the reviews of the Cayo Evo I read said that it would benefit from 'sub 1500g' wheels. According to Wiggle, the 2013 5's weigh 1760g I'm really struggling to get my head around a significant noticeable benefit from losing say 300g on the wheels.
- If I set a max budget of say £4-500, preferably less, would I be able to pick up a wheelset that would give me a worthwhile upgrade? Or would I need to spend more?

Of course, the sensible option is just to get new Open Pro rims and have the Fratello wheels rebuilt ..... but ..... you know how it is ....

How about getting the Open PRO rebuilt on a different rim? This way you get "new wheels" for your hitchy hands and save money over buying a new set...

Incidentally, Velocity A 23 has the same internal rim diameter than Open PRO, so you can use those wider, cooler rims keeping your spokes... budget for 150 pounds, as these are a bit more expensive than Open PRO...

I did that job for Pitchshifter on this very forum, ask him what he thinks...

danlikesbikes

Welcome to BR, thats a bloody good first post BTW.

In short to answer your questions;
1) Yes the Fulcrums should be good on the winter bike, get good reviews & most people suggest they are sturdy enough
2) Take most magazine reviews with a pinch of salt, some can be none biased but others.... well you know what I mean they get the bike for free and quite often the reviews are not always 100% unbiased. Firstly its a awesome machine and well spec'd but one area manufactures cut corners is to put "lesser" pars on their bikes and in this case think the review was referring to the bike having OK wheels. But as its pretty much a beast of a bike for what you get it you looked hard and changed the wheels to a more suited pair (depending on the riding you do) of wheels you could turn it into a an awesome bike.

You could get a good second hand pair of wheels for the new bike or look at the hand built option, but if it were me I'd consider keeping the 5's on the summer bike for now as they are pretty good & get your old wheels rebuilt then you can opt to go with something more durable & it wont cost the earth.

cycleclinic

Rebuild your wheels. I had a cstomer in with Fulcrm racing 5's. Not too sure how they were (a couple of years I think) but with everything off they were close to 1900g! The older model's surely canlt be 140g heavier.

Ugo has arealy mentioned the Velocity A23 and that is a good option too. Nothing wrong with reusing spokes if they are good one that have not been breaking in your current wheels.

MattDK

Thanks for the welcome and quick responses!

So it seems that you concur with what my brain was trying to tell whatever part of me is it that keeps wanting to spend money on bike components.

Ugo, the Open Pros had be so good to me, I hadn't even considered that I might rebuild on a different rim. I will definitely look into the Velocity A 23 - thanks for the tip. And you're right I like the idea of getting the satisfaction of having news wheels.

Dan, cheers, good to know that the Fulcrums are sturdy enough, so I have that option. And, yeah, it can be difficult to navigate through the BS when reading reviews. So it's not that the Fulcrums are poor per se, just that they are 'OK' and maybe don't live up to the rest of the spec - point taken.

TheCC - it's impossible to know when reading manufacturers claims about weight, I suspect that if 2 or 3 year old racing 5's weigh 1900g then my 2012 must have a 'real' weight close to that. In which case, it would make more sense that sub 1500g wheels would make a big difference. And I had assumed that the spokes would have to be replaced at the same time. The wheels have been abused (I was heavier back then and London roads are pretty unforgiving) but I have never had a problem with then, no broken spokes and when I took them to be trued last year (for the first time since they were built) they only needed a very slight adjustment. Really glad I upgraded to them when I bought the bike.

On a related note, how do you know it's time to replace the rims, just ride them into the ground until they split? Or should you get them checked every 12 months?

Cheers,
Matt

ugo.santalucia

MattDK wrote:

On a related note, how do you know it's time to replace the rims, just ride them into the ground until they split? Or should you get them checked every 12 months?

Cheers,
Matt

Some rims have wear indicators on the brake track, like holes... when they disappear it is time for a new rim. Open PRO doesn't, so it's a guesstimate... once the best part of 1 mm of alloy is gone (0.7 and above), you need to change it. It can be dangerous otherwise... it might collapse when you pump it up, but it might also collapse as you ride it

MattDK

OK, I didn't think there were wear indicator on the Open Pro, but I wasn't sure if I had just worn through them. I have no idea how many mm they have worn, but the mechanic told me that they were very worn before I even took them off the bike, I was astonished he could tell just from looking at them on the bike. It was only after he trued them he said they weren't as bad as he first thought and would do another 12 months. I'll keep an eye on them.
Cheers,
Matt

ugo.santalucia

MattDK wrote:

OK, I didn't think there were wear indicator on the Open Pro, but I wasn't sure if I had just worn through them. I have no idea how many mm they have worn, but the mechanic told me that they were very worn before I even took them off the bike, I was astonished he could tell just from looking at them on the bike. It was only after he trued them he said they weren't as bad as he first thought and would do another 12 months. I'll keep an eye on them.
Cheers,
Matt

It is a case of better safe than sorry... when it comes to rims and tyres, the failure can be spectacular and you could end up being very sorry... other bicycle parts are more forgving... worn bearings or a worn cassette won't kill you (But a worn chain might)

MattDK

Thank Ugo, that's why I asked, I wasn't sure if they just cracked or split a bit or if there was the reaslistic potential for a sudden complete failure. Obviuosly I'd like to try and avoid the later :-)

Also, just out of interest, I expected the front to be much more worn than the rear, in fact the opposite was true. I certainly use the front brake a lot more when riding generally - as everyone does. But I would have done a lot of long steep decents in the wet with panniers loaded for which I would probably been more comfortable using the rear brake to keep the speed down. I guess this has a more dramatic impact on the rims than day to day use of the front brake in the dry.

cycleclinic

actually mavic say replace when the braking wall is down to 0.9mm. Mabe they are over cautious. Also they will do another 12 months does depend on how many miles you do and how much wet weather braking you do and what pads you run.

To check place a ruler agaisnt the rim and see how concave it is. The more concave the more you should worry.

To measure remove tyre and take 2 2.0mm spokes (these have 4mm total dia) Place each spoke (short section) either side of the rim hook. Place a vernier caliper pinching both spokes sections against the rim and read of the measurement and subtract 4mm. If it much less than 0.9mm worry.

on-yer-bike

campag tell you to measure inside between the two rim hooks and give you a min dimension as a guide. This is based on the theory that the rim walls tend to fold outward when they have become too thin. Is the 2x 2mm spoke method more reliable?

pitchshifter

ugo.santalucia wrote:

I did that job for Pitchshifter on this very forum, ask him what he thinks...

He did a top job, fully recommended. I had my OpenPro's swapped for A23's. They have taken quite a bit of abuse over 1200 miles they have covered and both are still perfectly true, literally perfect.. Which is quite remarkable considering Ugo used the original spokes.

At the £500 mark you might not notice a massive difference between your current wheels.

ugo.santalucia

pitchshifter wrote:

and both are still perfectly true, literally perfect..

There is a part of my family history, when the Germans invaded Italy during WW2, which is still obscure...