Greg, can I now punch Osborne in the face?

jedster

Of course there have been cuts, they just havent been very big - see this coverage of the ONS speding data
http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehous ... ts-so-far/

They are tiny compared to the spending cuts made by say Sweden and Canada in the 90/00s (or by Ireland,
Portugal, etc). This is why people say we have TALKED a lot about austerity but not really seen it yet.

Incidentally, Osbourne was wrong to hang so much on avoid a rating downgrade but he was really using "rating downgrade" as a short-hand for "losing the confidence of the financial markets so that our gvernment borrowing costs ris like they have in Spain, Italy, Portugal etc". Its understandable why he wanted a short-hand but it was not wise to pick that one.

jamesco

CookeeeMonster wrote:

DonDaddyD wrote:

Osborne would have the general populous believe that they were all related. <snip> Financial pain has been felt and it need not have been so severe.

The Man needs a punch in the face.

I pretty much agree with you.

Everyone else on this forum is a south west London Conservative voting ponce :P

I pretty much agree, too; DDD gets an extra D for this thread.

davmaggs wrote:

The idea of "slash" is simply not true.

Tell that to anyone that's had to deal with the UKBA and it's 1/3rd reduction in staff. If Gideon was on fire I wouldn't p1ss on him to put it out. A miserable failure pretty much sums him up and he deserves all the contempt he gets.

DonDaddyD

davmaggs wrote:

Even accepting your anecdotes,

I don't doubt the turmoil locally and the pain to the employees (I know from contact with various agencies that people are getting a kicking), but the numbers are public record.

I know RJSTERRY pointed out that we both appear to be right: that we've cut public services without saving any money. However, this bit got me. Are we all wrong then? Because this is what the Government and the naysayers would have you believe. 'There have been no cuts, the figures show we are spending more money (inflation, rising costs and cost of reform change not withstanding)'. The reality is that the increase in spending is a temporary spend and we won't likely see accurate figures until near the end of this Government.

Still, I can't understand how some would buy the notion that we are spending more moeny when the bleeding obvious is infront of their noses. Yes, its all annecdotal, yes it can be dismissed by misplaced numbers weighed and collated onto a computer screen. But when every public service is saying the same thing, when every industry of public services (defence, safety, education, support and health services) is giving examples of how they have had a reduction in funding and the impact is there to be seen* how can then, in good conscience, say we are spending more money on public services.

How out of touch do you have to be not to see the bleeding obvious?

What's frightening is that I just attempted to write down all the service cuts that have taken place and I couldn't. Apart from the really large ones there have been really small one a huge amount that seem to have been forgotten or unreported.

Legal aid for example: No legal aid for divorce couples, child custody cases (unless there has been violence), stopping a child from being taken from the country.

Disability benefit cuts, Armed forces redundancies, Police redundancies, reduction in funding to schools and Universities, NHS cuts (there is one A&E in West London), Social care cuts, housing benefits cuts. There has been funding cuts there have been so many that the immediate cost of reform temporarily outweighs the cost in cuts and makes it looks like there have been none.

AND no, Italy, Greece and Spain are not shinning examples of cuts they are not parellels. To varying degrees they're the extreme - we are not at the point where we are getting administrators in to run the Country. They're extreme examples of economic failure (even then to varying degrees) and there circumstances are different. (i) they are being propped up by the Euro and the collective wealth of other Countries. (ii) - their actions are largely being dictated by the fact that they are part of the Euro and have to play ball.

If Greece and Spain was allowed to default and lower the value of its own currency it would arguably be further along in its recovery as we'd have likely bought up most of the proerty/land and/or invested business over there.

For a single standalone Country like the UK to get to the point where it had to enact a 20% reduction in say the NHS, that would indicate a complete and total failure in how the Country was run.

bushu

The fact your still looking at numbers not our sham MP's & system, means they are getting away with it..

you can argue numbers till blue in the face, someone somewhere is laughing at all this squabbling whilst still getting wealthy! knowing this will all die down when they can control the media even further & passing laws against free speech lol its so obvious i know you don't believe it, even if it were the press telling you. Its a sorry state we've let our peasanthood slide to such low values of worth all they want to know is which twatting soap star dies or has an affair next. Dont even get me started on those jeremy kyle loving twats who's only qualification is a paternity test, unable to cope with an alphabet nevermind family life, yet sill allowed a say in the vote!

"good morning children, now go eat your fucking cereal bitches and absorb what they tell you"

PBo

Why are we wasting brain cells on debating?

Surely the simple answer to the OP is

"Yes!"

No further comment needed....

Drfabulous0

If there haver been no cuts can you explain to me why when I had to call 999 for an ambulance for my two year old son I was told there was none available, forcing me to drive him to A&E in car which I have no license for? Luckily there are no police either to stop me doing this. In addition we no longer have lollipop men, public toilets, libraries, regular bin collections, enough school places for all children, or any maintenance on roads or parks. If you look at government spending and believe there have been no cuts then you are as out of touch with reality as Osbourne himself and are equally deserving of a punch in the face.

bompington

Drfabulous0 wrote:

If there haver been no cuts can you explain to me why when I had to call 999 for an ambulance for my two year old son I was told there was none available, forcing me to drive him to A&E in car which I have no license for? Luckily there are no police either to stop me doing this. In addition we no longer have lollipop men, public toilets, libraries, regular bin collections, enough school places for all children, or any maintenance on roads or parks. If you look at government spending and believe there have been no cuts then you are as out of touch with reality as Osbourne himself and are equally deserving of a punch in the face.

And all this has only happened in the last two years, right?

Drfabulous0

bompington wrote:

Drfabulous0 wrote:

If there haver been no cuts can you explain to me why when I had to call 999 for an ambulance for my two year old son I was told there was none available, forcing me to drive him to A&E in car which I have no license for? Luckily there are no police either to stop me doing this. In addition we no longer have lollipop men, public toilets, libraries, regular bin collections, enough school places for all children, or any maintenance on roads or parks. If you look at government spending and believe there have been no cuts then you are as out of touch with reality as Osbourne himself and are equally deserving of a punch in the face.

And all this has only happened in the last two years, right?

Are you trying to be sarcastic? Yes, every one of the above cuts has happenned within the last two years.

rjsterry

bushu wrote:

The fact your still looking at numbers not our sham MP's & system, means they are getting away with it..

you can argue numbers till blue in the face, someone somewhere is laughing at all this squabbling whilst still getting wealthy! knowing this will all die down when they can control the media even further & passing laws against free speech lol its so obvious i know you don't believe it, even if it were the press telling you. Its a sorry state we've let our peasanthood slide to such low values of worth all they want to know is which twatting soap star dies or has an affair next. Dont even get me started on those jeremy kyle loving twats who's only qualification is a paternity test, unable to cope with an alphabet nevermind family life, yet sill allowed a say in the vote!

"good morning children, now go eat your ******* cereal bitches and absorb what they tell you"

There's a soapbox in the corner of Hyde Park with your name on it . So what system should we have? If your MP is so awful, why aren't you doing something constructive about it? Do you even know who he or she is, or have you just written him or her off without even bothering to find out who they are and what they do?

bushu

There's a word for people like you.. twat, you or I can't change the system that has enslaved us for generations to think we have some sort of power over the wealthy in charge
Its a change of mindset that will never happen due to the enslavement of our kids to tv & media, who have no intention of stirring the pot as they already have what they want from our society

Yes I jest in name calling but, I don't ever really think humanity will ever move on in my lifetime after so long as peasants and master. An playing the what have you done in your society card is a futile argument when i have no intention of playing this game they want you to believe is democracy.

EDIT - though I would be happy with straight out anarchy, but would have to move to protect my family from rogues

jedster

In addition we no longer have lollipop men, public toilets, libraries, regular bin collections, enough school places for all children, or any maintenance on roads or parks

Where to start?
"we no longer have lollipop men" - well I saw one this morning, actually a woman but you know what I mean
There is a public toilet round the corner from my office
There is a library in the town where I live (although it seems to lend out more DVDs and computer games than books but hey ho)
"No longer have regular bin collections" - you mean they come at random? Or do you mean that the frequency has been reduced, if so say that instead. We get a collection once a week but it alternates between green wheely and black wheely. Change was made about 5 years ago. Lower but OK service. Sensible economy.
"Enough school places" - yes an issue in some areas, but not over the country and not an entirely new problem
"ANY maintenance on roads and parks" ANY? now you are just being silly.

Of course there have been cuts. We were spending 10% more than we were raising in taxes. There had to be cuts. Even Ed Balls recognised that! The difference between the two parties is actually slim - it's between big cuts and ever so slightly less big cuts. Of course the politicians like to pretend this is a huge gulf. It's not. Don't fall for it. Problem is, most of these cuts are yet to come.

As the outgoing labour chief sec to the treasury said in his leaving note for Danny Alexander "there is no money".
Anybody who things any new chancellor could magically change policy and materially improve the situation is a credulous fool. Seriously. We're in the sh1t. It's going to be tough for some years. Suck it up and get on with it.

bompington

Drfabulous0 wrote:

bompington wrote:

Drfabulous0 wrote:

If there haver been no cuts can you explain to me why when I had to call 999 for an ambulance for my two year old son I was told there was none available, forcing me to drive him to A&E in car which I have no license for? Luckily there are no police either to stop me doing this. In addition we no longer have lollipop men, public toilets, libraries, regular bin collections, enough school places for all children, or any maintenance on roads or parks. If you look at government spending and believe there have been no cuts then you are as out of touch with reality as Osbourne himself and are equally deserving of a punch in the face.

And all this has only happened in the last two years, right?

Are you trying to be sarcastic? Yes, every one of the above cuts has happened within the last two years.

Please tell me where it is you live that has had all these cuts in the last two years but everything was roses until then? But do read Jedster's post first.

PS anyone who seriously advocates anarchy (bushu) really deserves a punch in the face - well I could, because there'd be no-one to stop me, right? I love the idea that exchanging a society ruled, however imperfectly, by the rule of law, could somehow be improved by abandoning all law.

Drfabulous0

Jedster I was refering to my local area, crossing patrols have been cut by 80-% and the only ones I still see are based at pelican crossings, which I find a bit strange, all public toilets have been closed apart from one in the town centre plus a privately owned one, libraries are the same, apart from the central one all have been closed in the last two years. Bin collections are supposed to be fortnightly but they only actually come about once a month, due to not having a car of my own I am forced to fly tip it along with most of my neighbours. There are over 60 reception class children in my local area who the council have failed to provide school places for. The council have publicly announced that there will be no budget whatsoever for road and park maintenence. Maybe this isn't happenning up in your ivory tower but the reality for those of us on lower incomes in poorer areas is a standard of public service that would have been unthinkable a decade ago. It's worth mentioning that all these services have been subcontracted to a private company owned by the councillors themselves, who seem to be doing pretty well for themselves and do not actually live locally. A friend of mine moved here from Italy because of this sort of thing and says it is now worse here.

edit: Bompington I live in Stockport if you must know.

rjsterry

bushu wrote:

There's a word for people like you.. fool, you or I can't change the system that has enslaved us for generations to think we have some sort of power over the wealthy in charge
Its a change of mindset that will never happen due to the enslavement of our kids to tv & media, who have no intention of stirring the pot as they already have what they want from our society

Yes i jest in name calling but, i dont ever really think humanity will ever move on in my lifetime after so long as peasants and master and playing the what have you done in your society card is a futile argument when i have no intention of playing this game they want you to believe is democracy.

Yeah, those evil Tombliboos are brainwashing my children into a lifetime of servitude

PBo

rjsterry wrote:

bushu wrote:

There's a word for people like you.. fool, you or I can't change the system that has enslaved us for generations to think we have some sort of power over the wealthy in charge
Its a change of mindset that will never happen due to the enslavement of our kids to tv & media, who have no intention of stirring the pot as they already have what they want from our society

Yes i jest in name calling but, i dont ever really think humanity will ever move on in my lifetime after so long as peasants and master and playing the what have you done in your society card is a futile argument when i have no intention of playing this game they want you to believe is democracy.

Yeah, those evil Tombliboos are brainwashing my children into a lifetime of servitude

Are you nuts? The tombliboos are good people.

But as for those scheming pontipines....don't get me started.

graeme_s-2

On my 5 mile commute there used to be (up until 2010) 3 lollipop folk and there are now none.

When our house was burgled last year we had to try not to disturb any of the evidence (ie not tidy up) until a forensic dude could come and look at it the following day. The PC who told us this was so embarrassed he was blushing while he explained that due to cuts West Midlands Police Force now only have one forensic person on duty at any time to cover the East side of Birmingham and the whole of Coventry. So if someone gets hit by a car in Birmingham and you get burgled anywhere in that entire area, you're shit out of luck.

Coventry City Council announced a budget yesterday with cuts of £29 million as part of the £150 million of cuts they're having to swallow in the 4 years ending in 2015.

My wife is a Physiotherapist in the NHS. Since 2010 they haven't been replacing staff in her department when they leave. They now can't effectively cover sick leave, holiday or maternity and are basically short staffed all the time. Her and one other member of staff saw nearly 50 patients in a single day recently which basically gave them time to say hello and write in their notes that they'd seen them.

I can accept that we're not actually saving any money, but there absolutely are cuts being made.

rjsterry

PBo wrote:

rjsterry wrote:

bushu wrote:

There's a word for people like you.. fool, you or I can't change the system that has enslaved us for generations to think we have some sort of power over the wealthy in charge
Its a change of mindset that will never happen due to the enslavement of our kids to tv & media, who have no intention of stirring the pot as they already have what they want from our society

Yes i jest in name calling but, i dont ever really think humanity will ever move on in my lifetime after so long as peasants and master and playing the what have you done in your society card is a futile argument when i have no intention of playing this game they want you to believe is democracy.

Yeah, those evil Tombliboos are brainwashing my children into a lifetime of servitude

Are you nuts? The tombliboos are good people.

But as for those scheming pontipines....don't get me started.

Mr Pontipine's moustache is clearly a reconnaissance drone [/tinfoilhat]

rjsterry

Graeme_S wrote:

I can accept that we're not actually saving any money, but there absolutely are cuts being made.

This. Nothing like rearranging the deckchairs (sorry, restructuring) to blow some cash.

bushu

bompington wrote:

Drfabulous0 wrote:

bompington wrote:

Drfabulous0 wrote:

If there haver been no cuts can you explain to me why when I had to call 999 for an ambulance for my two year old son I was told there was none available, forcing me to drive him to A&E in car which I have no license for? Luckily there are no police either to stop me doing this. In addition we no longer have lollipop men, public toilets, libraries, regular bin collections, enough school places for all children, or any maintenance on roads or parks. If you look at government spending and believe there have been no cuts then you are as out of touch with reality as Osbourne himself and are equally deserving of a punch in the face.

And all this has only happened in the last two years, right?

Are you trying to be sarcastic? Yes, every one of the above cuts has happened within the last two years.

Please tell me where it is you live that has had all these cuts in the last two years but everything was roses until then? But do read Jedster's post first.

PS anyone who seriously advocates anarchy (bushu) really deserves a punch in the face - well I could, because there'd be no-one to stop me, right? I love the idea that exchanging a society ruled, however imperfectly, by the rule of law, could somehow be improved by abandoning all law.

step right up
I am prepared to defend myself and you would have the right to protect yourself but if my madness became the norm and anarchy did reign, I would be busy defending my family not threatening others with or without a keyboard :roll:

Biggest joke is you think it really is a democracy..

Drfabulous0

Isn't the concept of anarchy based on a post scarcity society which has developed to the point where the rule of law is no longer necessary, that's a very long way off.

DonDaddyD

jedster wrote:

Of course there have been cuts. We were spending 10% more than we were raising in taxes. There had to be cuts. Even Ed Balls recognised that! The difference between the two parties is actually slim - it's between big cuts and ever so slightly less big cuts. Of course the politicians like to pretend this is a huge gulf. It's not. Don't fall for it. Problem is, most of these cuts are yet to come.

As the outgoing labour chief sec to the treasury said in his leaving note for Danny Alexander "there is no money".
Anybody who things any new chancellor could magically change policy and materially improve the situation is a credulous fool. Seriously. We're in the sh1t. It's going to be tough for some years. Suck it up and get on with it.

Jedster,

I can accept that, there had to be cuts and social changes to how we live our lives. The previous approach (Brown & Balls need a kick in the ball sack) was unsustainable.

I accept that and Labour has a long way to go and I can't bring myself to vote for them. There economic policies need to be water tight which they aren't. The fact that they appear to be dithering and bumbling at a time when this should be a cake-walk, given how unpopular a Government is going to be during austere times, is a massive worry. UKIP looks more credible and viable an option right now.

The issue is how and what funding reductions are made, how quickly they are made and what - in the case of the NHS for example - replacement services are put in place to either continue said public service or pick up the shortfall. Nothing the Government has chosen I have actually agreed with or felt comfortable with. The decisions appear to be born from ideological belife than actual practicality.

Example?

Housing cap - I agree with the cap in principle. I don't like the execution, I don't agree with people being relocated 100s of miles away and I probably would have put a rent cap on properties in major cities to dissuade foreign investors buying up all the properties and taking the sometimes extortionate rent out of the country.

Disability allowance - I agree that it shouldn't be a self assessment form. Again execution, the new system has a professional assessing what you can physically do. All well and good. It doesn't take into consideration that employers discriminate against those with visible disability and so its harder for some in that demographic to find work.

Legal aid - What the f*ck. Taking the right to legal aid against parents arguing over custody does not protect vulnerable children.

bompington

bushu wrote:

I am prepared to defend myself and you would have the right to protect yourself but if my madness became the norm and anarchy did reign, I would be busy defending my family not threatening others with or without a keyboard :roll:

Biggest joke is you think it really is a democracy..

What do you mean by "I have the right"? Surely where there are no laws there are no rights? So what you're saying is that it's just dog eat dog and may the strongest, or possibly nastiest, or maybe just luckiest, might survive...

And by the way, if you had any brains you might just be able to guess that, err, I'm not actually threatening you: it's a rhetorical device to point out the absurdity of your position.

And more seriously: yes, I do think it's a democracy. There are indeed rich and powerful people who are capable of manipulating and subverting democracy: but in fact, they are in a position to do so because people are actually OK with that. If they weren't, they could vote for, let's say for the sake of example, a revolutionary communist party or an extreme anarchist one. People have this option and they choose not to take it, because they reckon they would not be in a better position if they did.

I'm sorry, but bleating "it's not a democracy! The Man's got you where he wants you!" just because you personally don't like the way the world is, is lazy and terminally immature thinking.

bushu

..o bless your feeding the troll & i dont have brains..

bompington

Of course I'm feeding the troll. I'm normally very, very mild-mannered but just sometimes I can't keep it in, and wind up with an unstoppable urge to call a fool a fool.

rjsterry

bushu wrote:

I am prepared to defend myself and you would have the right to protect yourself but if my madness became the norm and anarchy did reign, I would be busy defending my family not threatening others with or without a keyboard :roll:

Biggest joke is you think it really is a democracy..

Bleedin' Nora, a survivalist an' all. Do you have a stockpile of tinned food?

BTW, loving the anarchist/snob combination.

Drfabulous0

rjsterry wrote:

Bleedin' Nora, a survivalist an' all. Do you have a stockpile of tinned food?

Doesn't everyone? What if there's a zombie apocalypse?

rjsterry

Drfabulous0 wrote:

rjsterry wrote:

Bleedin' Nora, a survivalist an' all. Do you have a stockpile of tinned food?

Doesn't everyone? What if there's a zombie apocalypse?

We eat each other; isn't that what's supposed to happen?

DonDaddyD

Drfabulous0 wrote:

rjsterry wrote:

Bleedin' Nora, a survivalist an' all. Do you have a stockpile of tinned food?

Doesn't everyone? What if there's a zombie apocalypse?

Damn YOU! I was gonna mention the zombie apocalypse...

Side Question: If you slept with a zombie, would you become a zombie? Same with Vampires?

Hear me out, I know that you're thinking "what... why the f*ck would you even..." But imagine the Zombie apocalypse didn't just turn people into hungry eating monsters it also increased their sexual desire and you were being chased on bike by Zombie Vicky Pendleton. Now, you're not me and don't have the speed or power to escape, so that means she catches you in an outright sprint. As she's zombie strong she over powers you and erm 'tings ah gwan'. So there you are about to be zombied by Vicky P in, lets fae it, the preferred way. It's only a small bite on her forearm and she still looks like Vicky P, you would. The question is, would you become a zombie after the deed is done?

Now you're all wondering how the f*ck did the World get so f*cked up that not only did a Zombie apocalypse break out but they're sex crazed and our beloved Vicky Pendleton has become one? Well, funding was cut from the NHS budget and this meant that a well known research hospital surmised that by turning the freezer down by 2 degrees they would save an extra £1000 a month. The disease warmed up just enough to be passed on to a innocent worker. He became so ill one day that he went to an Urgent Care Centre, they didn't have the facilities to treat him so he went on a 40 minute journey through West London to the only A&E, the ambulance got stuck in traffic and the disease (now clearly a virus) becomes airborne affecting more people. Eventually the ambulance gets to the A&E but the doctors their (all Tories) don't want to treat him under NHS services so refuse to do so and 'advise' the patient that he has to go private (GP commissioning). The guy goes private and falls into the hands of Virgin Health Care (yep that's Richard Branson's Virgin - they, a private company, now provide NHS services) who pump him full of experimental pharmaceutical drugs whose use wouldn't be allowed under the NHS but because they are a private company providing NHS services so they don't care.

The virus mutates and the Zombie apocalypse breaks out. By this time the pharmaceutical company has been selling these drugs to the public for a while, they were able to get past legislation due to the shambolic Health and Social Care Bill written by and Tory and passed by the Coalition. Of course Osborne gave them additional funding because they promised to invest in the UK and he doesn't care about the common man so willingly sold us off to be experimented on.

And that's how George Osborne is going to destroy the World and ruin Vicky Pendleton.

Deserves a punch in the face for that, surely?

bompington

Well that's about as logical as most of this thread.

DonDaddyD

To be honest you have to ask a question about those who take a thread titled 'can I now punch Osborne in the face' with the utmost seriousness....

Still, it's been interesting and it is astonishing that the Government is spending more on public services while at the same time reducing money allocated to actual services.