How much £ for better and lighter hydro than Avid BB7

Mrtennis

I have just bought front and back BB7's, including all parts needed, for just under £30. One is an old BBDB and the other is a brand new BB7.
So, as the title says how much would a hydraulic cost with the same performance/weight/possibly even ease of use as the BB7? Could I have done better had I gone the hydro route with the amount I've spent?
Most opinions on the BB7 seem to be that the performance are excellent - I weigh under 60kg so should be ok for me right?
The other plus for the BB7 is supposed to the maintainance needed - while the pads dont automatically adjust they are supposed to excellent in every other way.
The weight issue is the one that has brought up the most divided opinion and which has made me wonder again. I thought the BB7 was meant to be light but some people say it is much more than good hydros. So, this is my main question really. Without sacrificing on the performance and ease of use the BB7's offer, how much would I have to spend on a hydro which is also much lighter? Baring in mind I paid £30 for the full setup. New I think you can pay £60 for everything needed.
If someone said to me I can get front and rear hydro for £100, with best performance, ease of use and lightweight (I'm guessing a package like that would have to be second hand) is that realistic? Or would it be cheaper, or much more?
Hope you were all able to follow that, advice appreciated!...

EDIT:
OK so I just made a purchase and posted in here, but going to post what I got up to in this original post too so anyone reading the above can see where I've got to now.
OK, so after a bit of searching, and possibly a bit of luck, just bagged some Avid Juicy Ultimates for £50 including p+p. No rotors included though. So are there stock ones that I should be searching for to match up with these or can I use anything? Light weight would be good if possible.
After looking into hydro's it seemed it was between these Avid's, Magura Marta's and Formula oro puro's. The Formula's seemed to get the best reviews from people and I may have prefered those. Just couldn't turn down the offer of £50 for some Ultimates though. Was that a good deal? I can always sell them on and get Formula's at some point if I wanted too

cooldad

If you've already bought them, I'm not sure I get the point, but Deors are excellent and £70-£80.

Mrtennis

cooldad wrote:

If you've already bought them, I'm not sure I get the point, but Deors are excellent and £70-£80.

Because I can quite easily sell them .
Really? Deores aren't exactly top of the range hydros. Would they be that big an improvement over BB7?

mcnultycop

Deore M596 are brilliant.

supersonic

Test the BB7 and see how you get on.

Mrtennis

supersonic wrote:

Test the BB7 and see how you get on.

I think that's some good advice. However, I am upgradind from SD7 v's so I'm guessing they will be an improvement? Just wondering if I could have saved on weight and not compromised on maintance and performance by going with hydro, for possibly not much more money?
It was the weight issue that put me off the idea of changing from v's to discs in the first place.

cooldad

Decent V's are decent. BB7's are excellent cable discs. But for ease of maintenance and stopping power hydraulic win hands down. Deore aren't light but they work and I'll take that over weight any day.
In the interest of fairness my main bike has Hayes which are powerful and have been maintenance free, but not as good as the Deores.

70\ʹspenguin

Formula R1's

Mrtennis

70\'sPenguin wrote:

Formula R1's

So we're talking like £200 or something rather than the £30 I've spent?
I don't need THE best. Just something equal or better performance but lighter. Don't need to go mad

70\ʹspenguin

Oops was supposed to say RX's.
Germans were selling them for £80 a pair but seems they have stopped now.

Alternative are to buy direct from formula. They have a set of ORO's for €100 or RX for a little more. Formula are silly powerful and lighter than Shimano.

However, you really should listen and do some research on the Deores or maybe the SLX. A simple search will show on virtually any MTB site that the Deore brakes are the best VFM and powerful brake you can buy. Most will tell you there is little or no power difference between the deore and the XT/XTR. The weight savings for the higher models are small.

Personally I'd buy formula because i love them. However the most sensible choice is the Deore or perhaps the SLX from Rose in Germany. Maybe if budget permits then the XT.

Then again just save for the R1's.............

cooldad

Most senile post ever?^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Mrtennis

70\'sPenguin wrote:

Oops was supposed to say RX's.
Germans were selling them for £80 a pair but seems they have stopped now.

Alternative are to buy direct from formula. They have a set of ORO's for €100 or RX for a little more. Formula are silly powerful and lighter than Shimano.

However, you really should listen and do some research on the Deores or maybe the SLX. A simple search will show on virtually any MTB site that the Deore brakes are the best VFM and powerful brake you can buy. Most will tell you there is little or no power difference between the deore and the XT/XTR. The weight savings for the higher models are small.

Personally I'd buy formula because i love them. However the most sensible choice is the Deore or perhaps the SLX from Rose in Germany. Maybe if budget permits then the XT.

Then again just save for the R1's.............

Really? I cant find that offer on the ORO!
I've tried to find the weight of the deore but had no luck

Chunkers1980

Why do you care about the weight so much?

stubs

ChainReaction says the BB7 weighs 329g but thats without a cable and outer so you need to add the weight of the cable about 80g depending on length. Deores are 490g complete. Only you can decide if the extra 100g or so is worth the extra power, feel and ease of maintenance. Personally the Deores for me but I am a fat knacker so need the extra power you will probably be fine.

Oh and you need to factor in the price of the cables as normal rim brake cable isnt up to the job you need top quality kit.

Mrtennis

cooldad wrote:

Most senile post ever?^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

would yuo like to explain?....

Mrtennis

Chunkers1980 wrote:

Why do you care about the weight so much?

Cos when going from v's to discs and doubling in weight, it just seems a bit ridiculous so wanted to keep that increase down as much as possible, hopefully without spending a ridiculous amoung. V's seem perfectly fine to me in the dry, the only reason to upgrade is for wet muddy conditions! and to have to double the weight for those occasions seems stupid....i don't have a big fat fut sus that weighs 100kg so I don't want to stick some big lead weights on it

Mrtennis

stubs wrote:

ChainReaction says the BB7 weighs 329g but thats without a cable and outer so you need to add the weight of the cable about 80g depending on length. Deores are 490g complete. Only you can decide if the extra 100g or so is worth the extra power, feel and ease of maintenance. Personally the Deores for me but I am a fat knacker so need the extra power you will probably be fine.

Oh and you need to factor in the price of the cables as normal rim brake cable isnt up to the job you need top quality kit.

I thought ease of maintance was the one thiing that BB7 had the advantage over all other hyrdos?
Are the deores closer in performance to a top end hydro or closer to the BB7?

supersonic

Maintenance of both systems is different. BB7 are more hands on with the cables. But when the hydros need doing it can be more difficult.

Deore are powerful for the price, but weighty. BB7 when set up well are very good brakes, and is easier to gt the lever feel you want if you have a lever like a Speed Dial.

Mrtennis

supersonic wrote:

Maintenance of both systems is different. BB7 are more hands on with the cables. But when the hydros need doing it can be more difficult.

Deore are powerful for the price, but weighty. BB7 when set up well are very good brakes, and is easier to gt the lever feel you want if you have a lever like a Speed Dial.

Yes I have speed dial levers. I'm guessing you can't really say where in the range of BB7 to top end hydro's do the Deore's lie since you didn't answer that bit ?
As you say you seem to think the BB7's are very good when set up. So why would pick the Deore's instead? Still much more powerful?

supersonic

Power isn't everything. Being able to control it is.

stubs

Mrtennis wrote:

stubs wrote:

ChainReaction says the BB7 weighs 329g but thats without a cable and outer so you need to add the weight of the cable about 80g depending on length. Deores are 490g complete. Only you can decide if the extra 100g or so is worth the extra power, feel and ease of maintenance. Personally the Deores for me but I am a fat knacker so need the extra power you will probably be fine.

Oh and you need to factor in the price of the cables as normal rim brake cable isnt up to the job you need top quality kit.

I thought ease of maintance was the one thiing that BB7 had the advantage over all other hyrdos?
Are the deores closer in performance to a top end hydro or closer to the BB7?

The Deore M596 are easy to bleed and very easy to change the pads. You will only need to bleed if you shorten the hoses and even then only if you cock it up and dont follow the instructions. Thats it for maintenance hydraulics used to be a pain in the bum with leaks, perishing seals and needing rebleeding but thats mostly in the past unless of course you get a bad one which can happen with any component. As for performance I reckon you will be blown away by the power and modulation of a modern hydraulic brake, never had mechanical discs so can only compare them to V brakes. Borrowed a flat bar road bike off a mate and nearly died at the first junction when I pressed the levers with the usual one finger and nothing happened till I grabbed with all fingers.

I have the XT M785 brakes which are basically the Deore with some added bells and whistles and I fitted them, shortened the front hose and then you know erm thingy whotsit forgot them. Unless I bust a lever I dont expect to do anything too them for a long time. I also have a set of XT M765 brakes on a hardtail which are 7 years old and apart from cleaning and replacing pads have never been touched.

Dont get me started on Avid Elixir CR brakes though or I will start foaming at the mouth :x

Mrtennis

stubs wrote:

Mrtennis wrote:

stubs wrote:

ChainReaction says the BB7 weighs 329g but thats without a cable and outer so you need to add the weight of the cable about 80g depending on length. Deores are 490g complete. Only you can decide if the extra 100g or so is worth the extra power, feel and ease of maintenance. Personally the Deores for me but I am a fat knacker so need the extra power you will probably be fine.

Oh and you need to factor in the price of the cables as normal rim brake cable isnt up to the job you need top quality kit.

I thought ease of maintance was the one thiing that BB7 had the advantage over all other hyrdos?
Are the deores closer in performance to a top end hydro or closer to the BB7?

The Deore M596 are easy to bleed and very easy to change the pads. You will only need to bleed if you shorten the hoses and even then only if you fool it up and dont follow the instructions. Thats it for maintenance hydraulics used to be a pain in the bum with leaks, perishing seals and needing rebleeding but thats mostly in the past unless of course you get a bad one which can happen with any component. As for performance I reckon you will be blown away by the power and modulation of a modern hydraulic brake, never had mechanical discs so can only compare them to V brakes. Borrowed a flat bar road bike off a mate and nearly died at the first junction when I pressed the levers with the usual one finger and nothing happened till I grabbed with all fingers.

I have the XT M785 brakes which are basically the Deore with some added bells and whistles and I fitted them, shortened the front hose and then you know erm thingy whotsit forgot them. Unless I bust a lever I dont expect to do anything too them for a long time. I also have a set of XT M765 brakes on a hardtail which are 7 years old and apart from cleaning and replacing pads have never been touched.

Dont get me started on Avid Elixir CR brakes though or I will start foaming at the mouth :x :lol:

Now this is where I really run into a road block with hydros! For every good review out there there is always one negative one! And never mind performance, as I am upgrading from v's I'm sure anythng is going to feel great, it's always a reliability and maintainance issue! I had read that the Elixir's were fine, yet here you are with an opposite opinion.
Which is another reason why I just bought these BB7's in the first place. Possibly a bit of a faf to set up. But that's it then, run forever!

nicklouse

basically people do not do what they should and do a lot of what they should not do.

never ever had any issues with any Hydro.

and mech disc are quite dependant on the cables being in good condition more than Vs.

stubs

Mrtennis wrote:

Now this is where I really run into a road block with hydros! For every good review out there there is always one negative one! !

The early Avid Elixir CR are well known to be very tempremental, nothing to do with the brake it was the crappy adjuster on the lever. I had Elixir Rs on my Canyon and they were fine I sold them to a mate because he is a tart and wanted white brakes to match his white frame.

If you go looking for bad reviews of anything you will always find negatives but I bet if you looked at the stats the good reviews of modern Hydraulics will outweigh the negative by a Yorkshire mile.

I would say as your a lightweight chap fit the BB7s and they will do you fine. If you dont get on with them the Deore M596 is an awesome brake and can be found for not too much.

Mrtennis

OK, so after a bit of searching, and possibly a bit of luck, just bagged some Avid Juicy Ultimates for £50 including p+p. No rotors included though. So are there stock ones that I should be searching for to match up with these or can I use anything? Light weight would be good if possible.
After looking into hydro's it seemed it was between these Avid's, Magura Marta's and Formula oro puro's. The Formula's seemed to get the best reviews from people and I may have prefered those. Just couldn't turn down the offer of £50 for some Ultimates though. Was that a good deal? I can always sell them on and get Formula's at some point if I wanted too

Chunkers1980

You can use what you've got.

You've bought some brakes which are approaching 10 years old in design.

Mrtennis

Chunkers1980 wrote:

You can use what you've got.

You've bought some brakes which are approaching 10 years old in design.

Well I believe these are the from 2009. And most reviews seem to say they are an excellent brake, never mind if the design is almsot 10 years old as you say. As with EVERY SINGLE disc brake I've read about, there were some not positive reviews. But these ultimates and the Formula Oro's had the least "bad" reviews. And for £50 are you going to tell me I could have done better?

supersonic

Why not just use the BB7 and see how they are?! The Avids are an arse to bleed, squeal, the pistons stick, the lever travel alters on its own accord. Old, outdated and maybe worth what you paid.

nicklouse

supersonic wrote:

The Avids are an ars* to bleed, squeal, the pistons stick, the lever travel alters on its own accord. Old, outdated and maybe worth what you paid.

sorry Paul.

they are not.

never had an issue with any of mine.

other than the codes being too much. and the 7s being not enough.

but the ultimates on smaller discs are great.

would sill have Formulas though. Oh i still do......

supersonic

I'd rather have V brakes.

Mrtennis

haha great reactions since i've announced that i bought the juicy ultimates!
just proves really all this rubbish about discs. Almost every review I have read says they are an excellent brake, just that some may be a bit better, not that the Avid's have anything wrong with them.
Then I announce it on here and all of a sudden everyone say's they are terrible!
Ah well, I have checked on ebay and I paid at worst half what other avid juicy ultimate carbon sets sell for so if i dont like them they can go back on and i can make myself a nice little earner.
Supersonic...i have always been a true believe in v's and always stood up for them. Except just recently taking my new build out in not too good conditions (very wet and muddy) and i didn't feel that confident with them. Don't get me wrong, in the dry I think they are great and I still stand up for them there! As for not trying the BB7. Well as far as I am concerned that is the outdated and heavier one in the whole debate. If I can get excellent lightweight hydros for £50 (plus some rotors but they won't be too much as I've been looking), then I don't know if there's much reason on using the BB7 in order to save £20-30.
As I said, I'll see how the juicy ultimates go and they can always go back on ebay if I'm not too keen.
Also just noticed Supersonic (paul) you live in Sheffield...I do to so if you bump into me on the trails any day you can always tell me off in person then (can't say any of the problems you pointed out by them were raised in reviews. In fact those exact points were raised in the opposite, saying that the brakes performed really well in the areas you complained about! I don't know, maybe you were unlucky and had a bad set once and it's put you off. Understandable I suppose but I'm going to give them a try. It's either those or v's I'm thinking!)