Club run group size.

willow71uk

During our last club run on Sunday which is the B group about 20 of us set out around the lanes of West Lancashire, during this ride the 'Peloton' was all over the place sometimes riding 3 abreast, i put this down to the alarming quantity of Potholes on the WL roads as there so often if the pack is tight then you never see these craters. Now some of the riders are complaining that the group size is too large. Does anybody think 20 is too large for a group? There is always new riders in this group so maybe a session in road craft and discipline is needed to correct this? Splitting the group is the last thing needed i think as we already have a Race, A ,B and C group.

smidsy

It is fairly large yes. We often split into two groups if there are lots turn out.

Generally like to keep things to around 12 to 14 per group.

I do not believe there are any rules as such but given that groups tend to ride 2 abreast the number you talk about is a string of 10 long, which is difficult to pass in a car.

slowbike

I've limited experience in group riding - so not sure if 20 would be too many, although it does sound like it's close to the upper limit of what is sensible. I'd suggest that splitting the group into two a few minutes apart would be a good idea and make less of an impact on other road users.

We have a local club whose riders are all over the place whilst riding - it looks messy and is messy. IMHO it's also less safe especially on public roads. I believe it also helps give cycling a bad name amoungst other road users - a gaggle of cyclists with no apparent form do not look like they know what they're doing and it can make it far harder to avoid/pass them.

New riders do need to be taught road craft and group riding discipline - how else will they know the signals you use, not to halfwheel and everything else - not teaching them these things just leads to a messy pack and the inevitable accident. Again IMHO - If they're not willing to learn & comply then they should be asked to leave.

Headhuunter

20's not that bad... I've been out in larger groups. One of my local clubs regularly has 100 odd riders turn up for Sat morning rides but they break it into 6 or 7 groups, however I've seen other local clubs riding in groups of 50+. London clubs can get quite big!

saprkzz

Wow 50-100 riders, i would hate to ride on a club run of that size, in my club (small town) there is only around 6 or 7, which in the summer can get up to around 15-20. I wouldnt want a group above 20 though, thats when cars get really impatient! and problems start.

Headhuunter

saprkzz wrote:

Wow 50-100 riders, i would hate to ride on a club run of that size, in my club (small town) there is only around 6 or 7, which in the summer can get up to around 15-20. I wouldnt want a group above 20 though, thats when cars get really impatient! and problems start.

Try Critical Mass in London - literally hundreds of cyclists all blocking London roads at peak time... That's when tempers fray!

schweiz

10-14 is my preference.

Usually we're between 8 -12 riders. It's a big enough group that you can have a proper rest but not so big that you're 'in the way'.

I've ridden in some big groups on the road but it really depends on who's in the group. A couple of nervous riders or riders unaware of their immediate surroundings can make me very nervous too.

dodgy

If I turned up for a club ride and there were 20, I'd make my excuses and ride alone.

markos1963

Got to say 20 is a bit much. Ideal size is 12 in my book but up to 16 for an upper limit.

bernithebiker

we had 33 the other day, which was fun, but round our way, you can count the number of cars you see of the fingers of two hands between 0830 and 1200hrs.

AchillesLeftKnee

Regardless of the actual numbers, I reckon the point where the group's to large is the point where you wouldn't want to encounter it if you were driving. Consequently, it all comes down to the sort of roads you're riding on, levels of traffic, and the willingness of the group to adapt to traffic when encountering it.

Or, to put it another way, there are plenty of roads round here where two riders side by side who refuse to get into a single line to help other traffic form a complete road block, but a sportive's worth keeping in single file with regular gaps can be passed safely with minimal inconvenience to anyone.

TakeTurns

Holy mackerel. There's me thinking last week that our group of 11 was too big.

I'd prefer 6, regular turns on the front and all that. Easier to work together. 8 would be the max.

Cleat Eastwood

willow71uk wrote:

During our last club run on Sunday which is the B group about 20 of us set out around the lanes of West Lancashire, during this ride the 'Peloton' was all over the place sometimes riding 3 abreast, i put this down to the alarming quantity of Potholes on the WL roads as there so often if the pack is tight then you never see these craters. Now some of the riders are complaining that the group size is too large. Does anybody think 20 is too large for a group? There is always new riders in this group so maybe a session in road craft and discipline is needed to correct this? Splitting the group is the last thing needed i think as we already have a Race, A ,B and C group.

Matt does give talks on 'road craft' though - the roads are stupidly bad - when 50 odd turned up last year there were 4 groups formed, its just common sense i thnk - anyway wait for the lancs lanes - its a 70+ peloton.

Mikey23

A friend of mine got stuck behind my local club out on their Saturday morning ride. She had to follow 30 plus in close formation and mainly two abreast up a very long, narrow double lined hairpin main road, steep hill upwards for about two miles at very slow speed. She was trying to visit her terminally ill son who had had an accident at home. Needless to say, a normally mild mannered person was turned into a rage filled cyclist hater... It's a pity that groups don't exercise a bit of common sense...

geebee2

Mikey23 wrote:

A friend of mine got stuck behind my local club out on their Saturday morning ride. She had to follow 30 plus in close formation and mainly two abreast up a very long, narrow double lined hairpin main road, steep hill upwards for about two miles at very slow speed. She was trying to visit her terminally ill son who had had an accident at home. Needless to say, a normally mild mannered person was turned into a rage filled cyclist hater... It's a pity that groups don't exercise a bit of common sense...

That's unfortunate, but supposing the ride was split into 3 groups of 10 riders, 10 minutes apart.

That would triple the number of drivers that got delayed, and triple the chance that your friend would have been delayed ( since they would have been unable to pass in any case ).

Still, depending on the roads, I think 8-12 riders is ideal, up to 16 is acceptable.

Mikey23

It is a tough call and I don't know that there is an easy answer. At least I was able to explain the dynamics of group riding and there were no hard feelings. I suppose when a large group of riders go out for a country ride there are always going to be pressure points and group leaders can't really legislate for every single situation they might encounter on the way round. The hill they were ascending is seriously traffic scary and I wouldbe terrified to tackle it on my own ...

robbo2011

I must not be a proper cyclist because the idea of cycling with 20 other people sounds awful to me. The whole point of cycling for me is to enjoy the tranquillity and beauty of the countryside, pitting myself against the challenge of the climb at hand. Loads of other people tagging along would ruin it for me! I would cycle with 2-3 others max.

Each to their own I guess. A bit of a thread diversion, so back on topic....

nferrar

Our club rides are often around 20 people but we don't ride as a tight bunch, it mostly fragments into groups of 4 or 5 and reforms every so often at big junctions etc. Works well for me (although it's more a social ride rather than a through-and-off training chaingang), it nice being able to shoot off the front for a bit if you feel strong or just drift back and chat to different people. Think we had 46 out as our record, that was a little crazy to start before it fragmented.

willow71uk

Cleat Eastwood wrote:

willow71uk wrote:

During our last club run on Sunday which is the B group about 20 of us set out around the lanes of West Lancashire, during this ride the 'Peloton' was all over the place sometimes riding 3 abreast, i put this down to the alarming quantity of Potholes on the WL roads as there so often if the pack is tight then you never see these craters. Now some of the riders are complaining that the group size is too large. Does anybody think 20 is too large for a group? There is always new riders in this group so maybe a session in road craft and discipline is needed to correct this? Splitting the group is the last thing needed i think as we already have a Race, A ,B and C group.

Matt does give talks on 'road craft' though - the roads are stupidly bad - when 50 odd turned up last year there were 4 groups formed, its just common sense i thnk - anyway wait for the lancs lanes - its a 70+ peloton.

Still haven't worked out who you are? Which group are you in?

dbb

it'd not unusual for us to get 60+ turn up for club rides.
we tend to split up into groups of 10- 16 in all different directions. the advantage is that you get a choice of ride.
hills, flat, fast, medium, long...

MattyyP

TakeTurns wrote:

Holy mackerel. There's me thinking last week that our group of 11 was too big.

I'd prefer 6, regular turns on the front and all that. Easier to work together. 8 would be the max.

+1 to this!

I rode in a group of around 30 or so on a Reliability Ride a few weeks back, and it got pretty sloppy with some people doing lots of time on the front and others being lazy and sitting in... Anyway during the last 20 or so miles, there were 6 of us, and it worked sooooo much better it was unreal! Everybody doing their turn etc. It was like poetry in motion

Gabbo

Nothing wrong with a group of 20-30 riders.

Can't cause as much inconvenience compared to the roads being closed off due to a large peleton...

oldhairylegs

No simple answer to this really.

A well drilled group of 30 who know how to ride in close formation and split up when traffic needs to pass is usually fine. A bunch of 8 riders who don't pay attention to what's going on can just as easily cause traffic chaos.

A good ride leader and some clear instructions before setting out will usually prevent any major problems, but there will always be the odd dickhead that spoils things - either in the ride group, or in a car.......

Headhuunter

MattyyP wrote:

TakeTurns wrote:

Holy mackerel. There's me thinking last week that our group of 11 was too big.

I'd prefer 6, regular turns on the front and all that. Easier to work together. 8 would be the max.

+1 to this!

I rode in a group of around 30 or so on a Reliability Ride a few weeks back, and it got pretty sloppy with some people doing lots of time on the front and others being lazy and sitting in... Anyway during the last 20 or so miles, there were 6 of us, and it worked sooooo much better it was unreal! Everybody doing their turn etc. It was like poetry in motion

Most of the large rides I go on are less formal about everyone taking a turn in the front. Generally there are a few strong riders at the front who take the lead whilst the rest of the group try to keep up

Toxteth o'grady

willow71uk wrote:

During our last club run on Sunday which is the B group about 20 of us set out around the lanes of West Lancashire, during this ride the 'Peloton' was all over the place sometimes riding 3 abreast, i put this down to the alarming quantity of Potholes on the WL roads as there so often if the pack is tight then you never see these craters. Now some of the riders are complaining that the group size is too large. Does anybody think 20 is too large for a group? There is always new riders in this group so maybe a session in road craft and discipline is needed to correct this? Splitting the group is the last thing needed i think as we already have a Race, A ,B and C group.

Hi Willow

I spent most of last Sunday riding next to you!

It was my first run out with the club for a while, and I must admit, it was bad at times - and I'm not particularly experienced in group riding. The stretch coming through leyland where we should have all been in single file was particularly bad. It has made me think that I would rather step up to the A group and nail myself to stay with them earlier than I would've liked.

I think the biggest problem was that there were a lot of riders that looked completely knackered towards the end of the ride. This seemed to effect their concentration and cause them to switch off a bit - although this doesnt really explain the start of the ride. There were also times when it wasn't ok to stay 2 abreast and chat yet people seemed to be oblivious at times to what was going on - and very experienced riders seemed to be just as much at fault of this.

I am by no means perfect when riding in a group and I know I would appreciate a more experienced rider or group leader having a quick word to point out any issues to me. Maybe this is something that could be looked at? :?:

Maybe they group was too big? I know the midweek chain gangs last year were getting 16 to 20 riders at times, but the tighter riding and more emphasis on keeping on the wheel of a chainey seemed to keep everyone in check!

thegreatdivide

52 on one of our reliability groups this morning. 20 odd on the other.

essjaydee

I have stopped going out with one of my clubs as the group size was getting larger every time, and we always seemed to have a run in with motorist, which spoilt it for me. Largest group was around 20, which was the last ride I went on with them.
For me, more than 8 starts to get uncomfortable

IMO, for larger groups there has to be a greater level of discipline and consideration for other road users.

willow71uk

Toxteth o'grady wrote:

willow71uk wrote:

During our last club run on Sunday which is the B group about 20 of us set out around the lanes of West Lancashire, during this ride the 'Peloton' was all over the place sometimes riding 3 abreast, i put this down to the alarming quantity of Potholes on the WL roads as there so often if the pack is tight then you never see these craters. Now some of the riders are complaining that the group size is too large. Does anybody think 20 is too large for a group? There is always new riders in this group so maybe a session in road craft and discipline is needed to correct this? Splitting the group is the last thing needed i think as we already have a Race, A ,B and C group.

Hi Willow

I spent most of last Sunday riding next to you!

It was my first run out with the club for a while, and I must admit, it was bad at times - and I'm not particularly experienced in group riding. The stretch coming through leyland where we should have all been in single file was particularly bad. It has made me think that I would rather step up to the A group and nail myself to stay with them earlier than I would've liked.

I think the biggest problem was that there were a lot of riders that looked completely knackered towards the end of the ride. This seemed to effect their concentration and cause them to switch off a bit - although this doesnt really explain the start of the ride. There were also times when it wasn't ok to stay 2 abreast and chat yet people seemed to be oblivious at times to what was going on - and very experienced riders seemed to be just as much at fault of this.

I am by no means perfect when riding in a group and I know I would appreciate a more experienced rider or group leader having a quick word to point out any issues to me. Maybe this is something that could be looked at? :?:

Maybe they group was too big? I know the midweek chain gangs last year were getting 16 to 20 riders at times, but the tighter riding and more emphasis on keeping on the wheel of a chainey seemed to keep everyone in check!

What happened this Sunday Russ? I see you went out and did Hunter's Hill. Yesterdays ride was better about 14 of us and a lot more tighter except for Dangerous Dave but then thats were he gets his name from

Toxteth o'grady

I had to go out for a quick blast on my own in the end. One of our friends very selfishly had a new baby so my mrs wanted to go and visit! Meant I couldn't get out with the club. I'll hopefully be along this weekend though.

Hunters Hill was as painful as ever! I really struggle on the really steep stuff at the moment, I'm alright (relatively speaking) up till about 10%. Think a diet is in order!